Curve balls? Heck, I don't even play softball!!!

[In_Shock]

25 - nah, I don't want any legal advice, just an educated opinion. You are right, I wouldn't take legal advice from a MB anyway But I would like your take on which L seems to make more sense with her reading/understanding.

And I agree also-- in my state especially I definitely think framing it as a gay rights case would be detrimental.

You (and val) are right about my pointing out the good. I have been doing so much better about certain things that I didn't notice that... I do have a tendency to call attention to things like oh, "I've cleaned the kitchen floor" etc.... (not lately, I mean just in general) I think it comes from insecurity/and the fact that my mother never noticed when I did good things unless I almost literally held them in front of her nose. LOL. Freudian complexes abound in my subconscious.... I remember I always got A's in school --- no one said anything..... once I got a B, all hell broke loose. SO I know WHY I do some of these insecure, needy things ---but as my W the therapist would point out, 'insight does not always equal change.;

I gotta stay mindful and in the present moment --- pay attention to what I'm saying/not saying/etc...

One thing W said the other night was she made an analogy to Obama... she said, well, he talked about hope and change. I have yet to SEE those things...... She said I need you to SHOW me just like I need Obama to show....no talk.

Yes guys, she is TELLING me what I need to do. I am trying and trying.....I mess up periodically, but I am really trying. I appreciate that you guys aren't TOO frustrated with me. I'm fighting so hard to improve myself....and I don't want to be all talk.

Some of you have grown so much --- I try to be as honest as I can here - and it's obvious I've not made the progress some have made, but I'm not giving up. I'm digging in even more!!!!!!

Mantra: Less talk, more action.

[Rick1963]

((IS))) stop beating yourself up already. You are human and can only change as fast as you can. At least you know what needs changing and that is huge. Keep up the good work.

[Valeska19]

Val: You are so right about the change of heart not as a tactic. I'm having trouble with that, I'll be honest b/c I still do want 'us' back so badly. I keep reminding myself it's for ME it's for ME and no matter what I will be a better person in the end.

It's not a bad thing that you want your marriage back so badly. I think alot of us do.

In fact, you can use it as a motivator to keep going. You can use your love for your spouse to keep going.

I think where it gets hard is when we attach expectations from our spouse or believe that we are ONLY making the 180 for our spouse. I believe it gets hard when we FAIL to see the benefit to ourselves. I believe it gets hard when we allow the fog to change our perspective.

If you weren't in this crisis and your wife said "at the end of every semester... I feel x", you would do your d@mndest to change it.. because you love her.

That should still ring true even though things aren't great. Don't let the sitch put conditions on the love you would show her.

I'm not saying to be blind or not to protect yourself.. but if you still love her and don't want to hurt her.. than that should still play heavily into your changes and your decisions....

... at least in IMHO.

btw - I DO think you are trying and I DO think you are making progress.

Yes continue to make the changes for YOU.. but it's okay to say I'm doing this for ME, because I really want to be the kind of spouse for W. That's not making it about her. That's realizing where you have fallen short and saying... "I want to be better" Why? Because my relationship deserves it, because my w deserves it, because my son deserves it.. and because I deserve it".

Make sense?

[25yearsmlc]

Mary/IS

even though we harp like you are messing up, you are doing quite well for the amount of time you've been here.

OTOH we know your w is ahead of you and so you have to catch up so you DO have to really "outperform" yourself.

No more talking at all. I'm glad she said ANYTHING about what she needs...it's not as definitely over, (as she said just weeks ago...see?? Believe NONE of what she says....unless of course, it's good!

Seriously,

we all were where you were. I backslid a lot more b/c I took longer to get HERE to this site.

We'd seen 2 mc's before coming here and finding a 3rd mc, who was more pro-DBing..

the first mc's said h was "acting selfish/single" and pretty much that was that.

I felt vindicated...I felt "right". He WAS being selfish.

But where does that leave ME? What was I supposed to DO with that diagnosis?

So finding this site changed ME....and what I Did. That's empowering. So

then the dynamic changed...and that's that.

Hope this makes sense. Will post more later.


Big hugs!
((( )))

[In_Shock]

thanks val and 25 --- I do feel like I keep messing up over and over-- but at least I keep realizing it. This time of year is just killing me emotionally!!! I know we can ALL relate to that.
I have enough trouble talking too much as we know, and when I'm emotional, well there goes the dam bursting!!!

It seems that after we do make some progress, she wants to them immediately deny it. I guess that's script too.

Yes, Val -- i understand about the changes being for me AND from love, etc... Sometimes it just seems so dark. Like today, she texted me that she was looking at a place (she's been trying to find a place to live since September...) and it hit me again. Christmas...will it be our last together here with S? Which led me to what my IC said the other day-- prepare for her to be sneaky like she has been and drop something on me regarding New Year's Eve on like December 30.....

So I'm trying to figure out how to insulate myself emotionally for this xmas -- for this new years--- with my images of W and OW 'dancing like sugarplums in my head' LOL.

You know, sometimes I wonder....this may sound crazy, but just want to run it by you guys. I wonder sometimes if I subconsciously sabotage myself with the talking/etc..... Is there a part of me that thinks this M actually SHOULD end and is hanging on due to codependence? or due to the 'hope/dream of the white picket fence and family?" I have been considering that lately. I mean, really --- what is my motivation to hang on so freaking hard to to this???? Is it love or is it codependence??

(Val, your struggle with recognizing codependence made me start to really look inward. I'm doing some reading..... I need to know myself better before I can say I can really ever commit to anyone....I need to concentrate really hard on self examinination!)

So that's where I am tonight. Messed up due to this time of year. Afraid to ask W exactly what we're doing about S on xmas and xmas eve....meloncholy.... trying to figure out if I even really love my W the way I thought or if I'm just stuck in the 'american dream of a family.' Terrified of how horrible I may feel on NY eve ---

AND THANKFUL for the AMAZING support I receive here. I wasn't 'fishing for compliments' yesterday, but I appreciate the kind words and encouragement.

I'm progressing regardless. I won't give up the good fight --- at least ultimately for S and myself. I hope things with W work out, but I'm trying to detach detach detach. Some days are easier than others. I can't wait until MARCH comes....(gotta get through Valentine's day too....!)

[In_Shock]

and thank you rick--- sometimes it's easy to forget we are human and prone to this type of thing. I do beat myself up quite repeatedly, and I am a perfectionist in my work, kind of the typical type A personality. If I'm going to DB, dammit, I think, well, I need to be perfect. LOL....yeah, that's where i forget the human nature business. thanks for the reminder.

[jbnati]

IS, I wanted to drop in and let you know I'm thinking about you.

This time of year is hard for many of us here, myself included. I think one important thing you realize is that when you do something you shouldn't have done, you recognize it. In my book that's progress. I also think you're making progress in not doing those things as often. Keep moving in the right direction. Stop thinking about whether this is going to be your last Christmas together - you never know.

Still praying for you.

[sunshine76]

Hi IS, I know what you mean about trying to figure out whether you are hanging on because of love or co-dependence. If you had asked me 6 months ago if I would have put up with the crap that I have been putting up with lately I would have said, "HEL! NO" and yet here I sit wanting my W back more than anything while she is with the OW.

I have been really struggling with detaching as well!! Maybe we should ask our W's how to do it because they seemed to have mastered the concept

For yours and your son's sake I hope that your W comes to her senses and spends Christmas with you both. If she chooses not to it is her loss and I hope that you have an absolutely amazing day despite it.

[In_Shock]

Sunshine-- thanks for dropping by. I am going to go read your sitch right now. Yes, the bs we put up with is unbelievable, even as we are doing it. WHY????? I keep asking myself. Then I look at my beautiful little S and say, 'oh yeah, he needs us both.' It's easier to cut and run, harder to make the changes. Sunshine, I'm glad you are here, but sorry as well....


JB ---buddy!!! Thanks also!! I think of you honestly, daily. Keep praying HARD. She's intensifying her hunt for another place, and as much as i think we NEED it, well, you know.... u live it, man. BTW, do you ever hear from ROMB? Since my phone went belly up, and luddite that I can be, i still havent' replaced it, I havent talked to her....I have been avoiding the "alternate universe' for a few weeks also due to my own issues.... (again, we must have lunch, seriously)

[kolja]

I don't know if this will help you or not because of the differences in our situations, but one thing I like to try and remind myself when I'm tempted to be upset about what I'm putting up with is that all this is hard for my wife in her own way. Her decision to give up could not have been an easy one for her to make, telling her family (especially during the holidays and with her sister's wedding coming up) had to have been difficult, and let's face it - she wouldn't have made this choice if she thought she was feeling totally awesome about everything.

It certainly doesn't show right now, but I know she's struggling in her own way.

Again, I don't know if that works for either of you or not, but maybe it's something to help take some of the sting out of being angry at what we're putting up with...