On Saturday when I was helping H get the kids in his car, a text came in (the alarm went off). The phone was sitting in the middle console. I glanced over and saw that it was a text, but didn't read it. H got super defensive and told me not to read his texts - they were private. I told him I didn't and he did not believe me. He was mad and I tried to explain a couple of times that I didn't. He was mean and rude and I told him he was being unfair and I didn't deserve him to treat me like that and that it hurt that he did not believe me.
I finally told him - "if you don't want to believe me, fine." and went inside. He left. About 15 minutes later he called to apologize. He said he was sorry and that he believed me. The interesting thing is that he was with OW. This is the second time that he apologizes after a fight when he is with OW. Most of the time, he never apologizes, even if he is mean or unfair. The only thing I can infer is that he tells her about the argument and she pushes him to apologize and get along with me.
Then yesterday when I picked up the kids I mentioned I wastaking them to see the fireworks. I usually ask him to join us - not last night. But he didn't seem bummed or bothered. He helped bundle them up, offered a blanket and even offered to watch the baby while I took the girls.
Right now we r home - I am sick, baby is sick and D4 is also sick and it's raining hard. I emailed H to let him know that we would not be going to swim class today, in case he was planning to go. He just called and asked how D4 is doing. He also asked about the fireworks and seemed bummed he missed them when I told him how nice they were.
We then started talking about logistics of nanny's severance payment, which is due today. We were not understanding each other and we both got inpatient and snippy (a bad dynamic we always have). He wants me to get a lot of detailed info right now. I told him I had to go - I am feeding the baby and will get him the info later when I have some time.
I am frustrated at myself that I got inpatient. I will gather all the info he needs, draft a nice email thanking him for his help and continue from there...
Me & H: 44 D7, D6, S3 Together: 20y, M: 17y EA: 11/13/10, Sep: 12/23/10 EA becomes PA: Spring 2011 H filed for D: 09/06/12 D Negotiating began 2/15 OW seemingly gone on 3/15 Still negotiating D
Good job handling the text sitch. I think your H over reaction to the text shows that he knows he is doing something wrong. He knows leaving his family is wrong but right now the infatuation is too strong for him to do the right thing. Eventually they will stop living in lala land and your H will see the real OW and see the new you. Keep it up! Believe!
---- M 39 H 35 D5,D4 M 4 T 9 ILYBNILWY 5/18/11 Left 7/11/11 Divorced 12/1/13
I went to my home country with kids for 10 days over the holidays – tough and bittersweet experience. I was very glad to have them spend quality time with all the extended family and cousins. It was very good for them and I made sure to enjoy every moment with them.
I did forget how much work traveling with kids can be, though. It was tough but looking at the bright side, it would have been much worse to be bored and just thinking of H all the time.
My goal for the trip was to work hard on detachment from my H. It has been easy some days and tough others – I understand it’s a process and I am ok with the ups and downs. I know how everything is more painful TO ME when I don’t detach and that helps.
The hard part was how absent H was during these holidays. He went up N to stay with SIL and be with OW (SIL lives close to OW and has met her.) And usually when he is with OW he is practically MIA.
The only day he initiated a call with the kids was on the 25th – the few other times he talked to them, I initiated the call. Maybe I should have not, but the kids were really struggling w/o him. It’s very hard because they never know when exactly they will see or talk to him and all other cousins had their parents there. I made sure when I called him to be pleasant but not try to start conversations and just have him talk to them.
There was one nasty incident while I was gone that I am very much responsible for, though… MIL also went to spend holidays with H and SIL as well. So H finally came clean with MIL about OW and tried to use this opportunity to introduce OW to her. MIL told him not to bring her to SIL’s house – she didn’t care if it was SIL’s house, OW was not welcome there.
H was apparently shocked by his mom’s reaction and talked to SIL. She told him that my two other SIL’s also knew about OW and were not happy with him. I don’t know why she would say that and it’s not my problem. But needless to say, this created a huge problem.
H’s other two sisters are very close to me and I had told them in confidence about our R issues and developments throughout the past year as things have happened. They are both very good friends of mine and have been an integral part of my support system. I trusted them and I thought they would not be judgemental of H. Throughout all our conversations I always defended H and would tell them I didn’t want them to judge him or take sides.
Anyways, H left me a message while I was abroad saying just this:
“Hi, it’s me. It turns out all my family hates me… So I guess thanks for that.”
When he was finally ready to address this with me after I came back, He told me he has never felt so judged in his life and accused me of telling his whole family of his private life.
I obviously apologized for him feeling hurt. I asked him to please talk to his two sisters – they were all adults and he should first hear their opinions before accusing me of anything.
I also told him that I had confided in them about my private life as my friends and support system, not as his sisters and that I had always taken ownership of my faults in the demise of our M. I told him that I had even defended him on occasion and that I trusted that they would not turn their back on him, so to please talk to them and clarify everything.
I told him I had never talked to any other relative about his dating or OW, but I understand how upset he felt. He has been really careful and slow to introduce OW to everyone. . He told me that he wants his family to accept her and that my inaccurate description of how things happened was not helping. We both know his motivation is to legitimize his R with her so that people don’t find out they started a R before she left her husband.
And I could care less – I don’t want to be right or have everyone judge him or her because it will make it harder for him to come back if he ever reconsiders. I trusted that SIL’s would not betray my confidence, but I guess somehow someone said something.
The truth is that I never intended to have anyone take sides, or judge, but I should have known better. I had told my SILs about OW when I found out way back in the spring, because I was desperate and hurt and they are my support group and because they know my H and love him as much as I do. Yet one of the 37 rules of DB… don’t involve relatives. I found this out too late and it all backfired on me.
Yet, the worst part of it is that the next day after that fight, H acted as if nothing had happened. He has not brought up that incident ever again. I fear that he has swept it under the rug (bad dynamic he has had with me for years) and is just keeping that anger inside and let it fester along with all the other things he is angry with me about… L
I spoke to one of his sisters after this blowout with H and told her how much I regretted telling them anything about H. She told me that I didn’t do anything wrong – they both actually already knew about OW before I said anything to them because H has been very obvious about it with his own actions and had actually even made comments about OW to a mutual friend. She also assured me that the issue was not with OW, but how H’s actions were hurting everyone.
Apparently H asked all his family not to treat me as his wife anymore. He asked his mom not to invite me for Thanksgiving and both SIL’s and MIL are mad at him because apparently he wants the whole family to break contact with me and they are not willing to do that - they all want me to continue being part of their lives and will see me apart from H. SIL said he will need to respect that.
That explained MIL’s reaction last time I saw her before my trip. When we said goodbye, she looked at me and tears came to her eyes. She hugged me and just said “I am so sorry.” I gathered all the strength I had, smiled at her and said “Please don’t worry about anything. I promise you will be just fine.”
And I do believe that. It is a very painful road and I am owning and embracing all of it, the growth and the stumbles along the way as well, but after 1 year since all this mess started, I now know that I will be fine with my kids no matter what. And that to me is HUGE progress.
Me & H: 44 D7, D6, S3 Together: 20y, M: 17y EA: 11/13/10, Sep: 12/23/10 EA becomes PA: Spring 2011 H filed for D: 09/06/12 D Negotiating began 2/15 OW seemingly gone on 3/15 Still negotiating D
KG you are one of the bravest women I've never met.
Kudos to you.
And if my son were mistreated, I'd tell him to get some mc. OR attend a workshop but I would not easily welcome a new woman if my son had married. And i would NEVER abandon the mother of my grandchildren...
Am about to meet s25's gf for the first time. Also the first time he's flown a girl out to meet us so I'm guessing she's the one. So far all I know is she's beautiful and smart and atheist and very different politically. Should be fun!!
If she loves my son the way he deserves, I'll never have a problem with her. IF she makes mistakes, I'll remember that I did too.
And don't overlook all that you accomplished...you say you feel the competition is steep with ow
and let's say she's a great catch. Let's all buy that for a minute. Did she work full time and have 3 kids in 4 years?
oh...she didn't? Gee, wonder how great she'd have always been if she had been in your shoes...
someday you may want to mention to your h that YOU get how YOU bought into a myth...that a woman can be like the woman in the commercial and have a demanding full time job, kids at the most demanding age at the same time and be married to a man with a career and always want sex and it'll always be great sex...
Not that you blame him but that YOU now realize it was unrealistic of you...let him stew in that for a bit...
but you won't make that mistake again...
Good grief, you have a 6 month old!! Of course his family has a problem with that...
(btw, if you ever get the chance, and I don't even know where you live, attend a workshop called "Essential Experience" in Philadelphia.
It so profoundly changed me, and my life, that when h saw the changes in me, HE decided to go...and he changed too. We're much happier but it's for individuals so being a couple is not required.
Check out their website and if you can, get yourself there. Best gift to give yourself, ever...)
Again, I say WELL DONE!
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
An update of my sitch and a place for me to vent...
My R with H is still pretty much a rollercoaster. We get along perfectly fine most of the time.
I have been able to act kindly in a "neighborly kind of way" for the most part. I have been wondering if that is the right approach, since he felt I was neglectful to him emotionally. He still keeps me at arm's length and will not let himself get an inch close to me emotionally. So that is something I am not sure about how to proceed.
He still has not filed - he told me last Fall that he was waiting for me to get back to work before he would. I have not gotten back to work, but am starting to look. He expects me to go back to a full-time job with a 6-figure income - he's said that to me.
I have been clear with him (in a non-confrontational way) that I want a part-time job to be with the kids - they need me, and it will have to pay more than the childcare costs for it to be worth it. I am not sure how or when I will find that.
His reaction to that is negative. He has told me to my face that he does not believe our kids are struggling any more than any other 4 or 3 year-old and that our separation has not affected them. I did not get into an argument with him about that. I simply said I disagreed.
On Wednesday night he came over and started by telling me that he might lose his job in a month. His company is in serious need of a cash infusion and they have weeks to get new investments in. I listened to him tell me in detail about it and validated him. I also encouraged him and was very supportive and told him I had complete faith in him, I believed in him and we would all be fine.
At one point I asked - what would be the worst that could happen? He replied that they would need to layoff people.
I also asked him if he was looking at other opportunities. He mentioned that a friend offered him a job, but he doesn't want to work for that friend....
So the next morning I thought about his comments and started wondering why he said then that he would lose his job and how he didn't want to take an exiting opportunity, if he is really in such a bad sitch. And then I remembered what he said in the Fall. Could it be that he is just trying to pressure me into getting back to work? Perhaps.
A bad dynamic in our marriage - I always hated working long hours. He always said he would be supportive if I decided to quit. Yet, anytime I didn't have work, he would constantly ask me when my next gig would start and make comments about needing money. I always felt such pressure from this and resented him for these mixed messages.
The worst is that I am feeling that same dynamic playing out again. He said he would respect my time-frame for getting back to work and yet I am feeling pressured again based on what he said last Fall and his constant comments about his job sitch.
I hate being distrusting of him. I have always believed in people in general and I like being that way. And this is the man that I believed in blindly for 19 years and now I am always wondering if there is an ulterior motive to his actions. Granted - he earned my distrust, but I hate that.
I felt like we had had a great conversation, that I showed support and that we somehow bonded (our R has really become more and more distant in the last few months - not my choice). But I realize that he doesn't see it the same way. More to come...
Me & H: 44 D7, D6, S3 Together: 20y, M: 17y EA: 11/13/10, Sep: 12/23/10 EA becomes PA: Spring 2011 H filed for D: 09/06/12 D Negotiating began 2/15 OW seemingly gone on 3/15 Still negotiating D
But his expectations of you remain unrealistic-, the Superwoman (now single) who can mother 3 SMALL children while working at a 6 figure job (those are never 40 hour weeks unless you are an MD and even then...)
and still blame you for being tempermental/resentful while pregnant or post partum...Don't go there again.
hey I wonder what OW earns?
Surely SHE can help, right? I'm serious...HE will or already has other sources of income, you only have him.
So, what does YOUR L say? If you have not seen one, I am sending a gentle slap through the computer and saying "GET ONE ASAP"...
there...I said it. Assuming you have seen one, what do they say?
Well done w/your reaction of "I disagree" -it is perfect. He can't argue with it. You can also agree to disagree... but even though I think you CAN assume the best of him, you have to prepare for the worst...
and he MAY be worrying about money. I suspect, regretfully, that he is hoping you'll let him off the hook with CS payments by earning nearly or more than he does... do right by your kids and you'll have no regrets.
It's not really about money for you; it's about time with your children.
When I wanted to go back to work, my IC suggested that I Not.
NOT MY L, my IC! (L said the court would "impute" some income to me, but less than I usually earned-and that earning more did not help me. I could earn more later...).
IC said "your kids already lost one parent, why make them deal with another parental loss?"
with a 6 month old and 2 kids <4, no way would I work full time EVEN IF MY H were still with me....
I did the full time working deal w/workaholic h in medical training, with 2 kids and had great day care. I crashed physically and was hospitalized-God's way of saying "enough already"...
And I regret what I missed. ONly when our 3rd came, years later, did I stay at home. Thank GOD...
You can work more later, but you can't mother more later.
Just my .02
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I said in my previous post that H and I have been getting along fine for the most part.
We had that incident about his family finding out about OW in December.
Then this morning we had an email exchange that I realize now I should have handled way better.
He emailed to tell me that OW would be in town this weekend when he has the kids. I had previously asked him to let me know when that would happen. He didn't even say hi or anything, just:
"I wanted to let you know that OW is coming to town this weekend. She will be hanging out with me and the kids on Saturday night and half day Sunday."
Here is my reply: "I know I had asked you to let me know when this situation would happen and I thank you for giving me a heads up about this weekend.
You know I don't agree with this at all, yet I know I have no control over it.
So in the future, you don't need to give me a heads up anymore. I don't want to know."
---
I was going to leave it at that, and he sent me the following email:
"Ok. I understand. I want you to know that I am being very careful with this. While I want the kids to know OW, I don't want them to rely on her presence yet. So it's little doses spread out over time. And we're doing the same with her kids. They are older so it's a little different.
I wish this was easier, and I'm sorry it hurts you. I feel like I've kept to your wishes and you're still resistant to the kids spending time with her. So I'm not sure how to proceed.
Everyone seems to know about our relationship now, including her ex and family, and my family and friends, and I'm also spending time with her kids, so I feel like we're moving forward as a couple trying to be sensitive to others. This was the hurdle you laid out for us.
Despite what you apparently think, OW is a very loving and kind person. And she gives that example to the kids at all times. I know you don't want to talk about her, but eventually you're going to have to meet her (or at least talk to her), so just let me know when you're ready. I think she wants to talk to you at some point too. She respects you a great deal and doesn't want to hurt you any more than you already feel hurt.
I care for your feelings, and I'm trying to balance that with trying to move forward in my life. I hope you can understand."
---
To me, this is not an email from a man in a MIL. He has simply moved on and is committed to this R with OW. I can see them together for a very long time...
What hurts me is how he is trying to appear like he is doing things right in this whole sitch. He can take that stance with the whole world, but I know how things have happened and I resent the fact that they are both trying to clean up a messy start to save their reputation.
I would respect him more if he came to me with an acknowledgement of the truth - I messed up, I lied and didn't do this right. I was selfish and I'm sorry.
I wished he didn't treat me like I am stupid or I don't know what has happened in the last year. But I understand that is not coming anytime soon. I wanted him to know that he doesn't need to sell me their fairytale story.
I also do not want to hear ANYTHING about her. I am trying to detach and it's so hard as it is. Yet his insensitivity about how his R with her hurts me is appalling. He doesn't realize how him talking about her hurts me - he just doesn't get it. How can he say he is acting according to my wishes???
So my response - which in hindsight came out NOT as neutral as I would have wanted was:
"I understand you are moving forward with your life. I am as well.
But let's clarify - you have not kept to my wishes even though you feel that way, so please don't try to spin the story that way - it is insulting to say the least.
The bottom line is that you are both moving very slowly and carefully to legitimize your relationship. You, her and I know it and that truth will never change. And that is not my problem - you will both have to live with that in your consciences - not me.
And please understand - I DON'T HAVE to meet or talk to that woman eventually or ever. She is in a relationship with you, not me. No thanks."
Yes, not my best email ever...
Me & H: 44 D7, D6, S3 Together: 20y, M: 17y EA: 11/13/10, Sep: 12/23/10 EA becomes PA: Spring 2011 H filed for D: 09/06/12 D Negotiating began 2/15 OW seemingly gone on 3/15 Still negotiating D
I'm sorry to hear that. I was hoping you weren't still harboring ill feelings.
I'm not sure what makes our relationship illegitimate to you. I'm guessing that you're taking a jab at us because you feel we shouldn't be dating (or shouldn't have been dating) for some reason. That is something that I don't think I'll ever get my arms around. While I wasn't always truthful (or clear) that I was dating to protect your feelings, I was always clear that I wasn't interested in continuing my relationship with you, so how could it be illegitimate?
I'm sorry that me finding someone else hurt you, but I'm not sorry I'm in a relationship. My conscience is clear because I always did what I thought was best. I told you I wanted to move on and I did. I'm not sure what I could have done differently.
I understand why you feel negatively about meeting OW. I feel it's a little snide to refer to OW as "THAT" woman, so I hope you can get past that. I know she is fine with staying out of your way if that's what you want. I just would hate to be in a situation where we're all together somewhere for the kid's sake and you are rude or ignoring her. I never want to be in a situation where there's tension in front of others. OW has not hurt you in any way and she doesn't deserve to be treated poorly, talked about snidely, or made to feel like she's not welcome or that her relationship with me is a negative thing. It's not.
I'll try to be sensitive to your needs, but please stop with the negativity about OW with me and my family."
Me & H: 44 D7, D6, S3 Together: 20y, M: 17y EA: 11/13/10, Sep: 12/23/10 EA becomes PA: Spring 2011 H filed for D: 09/06/12 D Negotiating began 2/15 OW seemingly gone on 3/15 Still negotiating D
Good grief! Well, I'll say this, he is reading from some sort of script. My xh did the same thing. He tried to tell me what 'wonderful woman' ow was, how she was really good to our son, she has been through some rough things in her life and it would really 'help me (meaning me, not him)' to talk to her! WTH? I refused in much the same fashion you did. He ambushed me with her when we were meeting at restaurant to discuss visitation!
Yes, you could have left a few things off your response, but you were honest about how you feel about the situation. Don't beat yourself up about it.
T19 M15 S19 XH47 M43 bomb12/4/07 PA5/07 S12/26/07 D final 11/17/08 Back together with no defined R 05/2010 confused....to say the least!!!
