Really, can this work for people? Why would a spouse who has run away, and is so one sided reverse and see that their M is worth saving?
Well a couple things... first off, no one ever said DBing works. Yes, it works sometimes, but honestly I would guess it doesn't work more often than it does. At least if you're going to use reconciliation of the marriage as the test of "working". There are other measurements of success that could be used (and probably should), but for this discussion let's use recon of the M as the standard.
Why would a spouse come back? Because fundamentally something drove them away and whatever that is has changed or disappeared, AND their new situation is not as good as what they could have back with you. You're pretty early in this timeline (as am I), and our W's are still living in their created world.
At some point that created world will have to be dealt with by them. It won't be all rainbows and unicorns.
The ultimate question is do you want your M? If the answer is yes then what is the other option? We could go all pleading, begging, and pursuing knowing that drives our spouses away faster and leaves them with the image of this pathetic, pleading person. Who would want to go back to that?
We could go all aggressive and over the top. Threaten, cajole, demand, and control... yep, there's someone a spouse is going to want to come back to.
Or we could take the "flight" route of the fight or flight response. First sign of real trouble and we roll up our carpet and hit the streets; abandoning our M's and families. I'm quite sure the pain and damage caused by that will rule out almost any recon.
So then what are we left with? We are left with what we are doing. Focusing on ourselves. Making ourselves better people and keeping the road home paved and smooth. They may never take the road home. If someone said "If you DB for XX months there is a 100% chance your M will be recon and be stronger" who amongst us wouldn't take that deal? But no one can say that. So instead we're left with our own self-choice. To DB or not. To hold out as long as we think we can, and then probably just a little bit longer than that.
But in the end you have to want your M to your W. There can be all types of reasons for that. For me, it's because I know who my W can be when she is healthy and chooses to be that, and I love that person very much. It's also because I want to save my SS and SD from having grown up through two broken marriages. And it's because I want my S to have a mom and dad who live in the same house, take family vacations, and do the stuff that families do.
In the end if I can't have any of those things, then I can't have them. But I can at least look in the mirror, and someday look my S in the eye, and say I did everything I could to save my M. I stood for the M, I waited, I did the heavy-lifting until I couldn't do it any more. And that's the most I can offer... the true show of character is not in the outcome, but how you conduct yourself in getting there.
Married 6 together 8 Me:38 W:31 second marriage for both SS12, SD10, S6 Bomb: 9/8/11 (day before our 5 yr ann) W moved out: 2/18/12 D final: 11/12/12 Share S 50/50. Spend as much time as I can with SS & SD
Thanks for the words of wisdom, workinghardguy! I'm early in the DBing stages, so it's good for me to hear why I need to stick through it. Yes, it's crossed my mind to throw in the towel, too. If my H doesn't want to work on this, why should I? What do I care? I deserve to be treated with respect and love. Well, I care, I care a lot. And I'm a fighter, and I'm willing to go through this pain til the end.
Rick sorry you are having a hard time with this. I don't wish this on my worst enemy. DBing is for you not your W or M. How can becoming the best YOU be a waste of time? Continue to work on you as you have. Your W may want to join you if she likes what she sees. Or she may not. But know that you will be fine with or withour her. You must show her confidence and strenght. Hang in there. We are pulling for you
M 53 D 20 Separated 6/22/11 moved out 10/24 Together 26 yrs Married 16 W Filed for D 7/21/11 Served 9/6/11 D final 8/28/12
“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”
I've been questioning how this is all going to work when my H is so confident that this is what's best for him and that there is no chance for us.
I'm inspired to pick continue the heavy-lifting today, thanks so much!
M-31, H-31 T-9, M-7 S-6, s-20mth sep 8/1/11 ILYNILWY 11/29/11 Creating separation papers. Discover H has feelings for BFF, she does too 1/11/12 H moves out 1.20.12
Let me post something that helped me get through this early part.....
It is a great guide to start to detach, and certainly a guide to act " As If"
Just some things from several articles I had read...Some from here, some from elsewhere.....
The more you use pressure, the less they see your inner beauty and your charm.
Everybody thinks, professionals and non-professionals alike, they say to have a happy marriage or a happy relationship, you have to work at it.
But I say that it's the working that makes it not work.
When you criticize, you're working at improving your mate.
When you complain to your lover, you're working at improving them.
When you argue, you're working at improving them.
When you try to reason with them.
When you tell them how much you love them.
Both when you're reasoning and when you're telling them how much you love them, you are trying to change them. You are working at changing them. And it's that working at changing them, that is the only problem.
Stop all of that working. Allow and accept, one hundred percent, whatever your spouse thinks, feels, or does is perfectly okay.
It's perfectly okay.
Their negative feelings towards you will weaken , because their negative feeling needs something in you to fight with. And when you sincerely see what's on their side, when you sincerely agree with them, and when you lovingly and sincerely go one hundred percent totally, instantly, and happily your mate's way, when you do that there's nothing for their negative feeling to build on.
You have put the white flag up.
You've thrown your gun down.
That forces them to do the same thing. They cannot shoot you when you have no gun. When you're not defending yourself, THEY want to defend you.
It's not normal to not defend yourself, but it is healthy.
Agree with them.
Do not disagree at all.
It's not to your advantage. ....Her negative or his negative attitudes towards you are being supported by you communicating what you want.
Every time you say to them, "But, I love you," you are saying, "but I want something different than what you want. You want to pull away, but I want you to come closer. I don't really care what you want. It's what I want that's important."
Lots of times men tell their wives, "I've changed. I've changed. Let's get back together. I've changed."
I tell the husbands that "Every time you say, 'I've changed,' you're communicating to her that you have not changed."
"Really? Why is that? How is that? I don't understand that."
"Of course, you don't understand. But what's your motivation? Why are you telling him or her how you've changed? What's your purpose? Isn't it to get your way?"
"Yeah, I want her back."
"That's your way. It's not her way, right now. She said she may consider it later, maybe, but not right now. And every time you say, 'I've changed,' you're saying, 'Give me my way! Give me my way! Give me my way! What I want is more important than what you want. I don't give a hoot what you want."
And subconsciously, she says, "He hasn't changed. He's still the neurotic, selfish, pressuring guy he always was. There's no way I'm going to go back to him, or feel positive to him as long as he is this way."
Rick, I know how you feel, and I have walked in those shoes of UN-certainty. It was one of the worst things I have ever gone through. Yet it became one of the best things to ever happen FOR me.....not TO me
IF you feel that DBing is a waste of time, then you merely defining yourself by your marriage. Yes, I know you want your marriage to succeed, every one of us wants/wanted that. However, your definition of success should never rely on what or how another person feels or thinks.
If you are ready to throw in the towel.....
Registered: 10/04/11 Posts: 125
That ^^^^ bothers me a little.....
That 24 years of your life, isn't worth your best shot at this.
When you really give in, and buy into what DBing can and will do for you, then you will realize that your best chance right now, is taking this time to work on yourself.
To become the BEST option out there, not to win her back, because YOU want to be all of that, and a slice of pie too....
Ask yourself the hard questions about what you can do FOR yourself, to allow yourself to make better decisions, and come from a place of understanding , instead of reacting to situations.
You DB for you...nobody else...
You 180 for you....nobody else..
You make your changes for you....nobody else...
One thing that bothers me when I read here...
That is when someone says that DB doesn't work, and they have wasted their time DBing.
The only thing that is truly wasted, is when the opportunity TO DB is not fully taken advantage of....
Time spent on one's self, is never a waste of time....
Today is not the day I quit. Tomorrow isn't either, although I will see what tomorrow brings.....
Rick - sorry I'm a little late to your post but you got some great feedback from some people who get it. So please pay attention and re-read their posts.
"...you examine yourself and see where you contributed to the M problems, you decide to learn from it and become a better person. You GAL and detach. You give the WAS time and quiet support. That's what the LBS does.
What does the WAS spouse do? It seems to me that they want time and understanding. During this time, everything becomes about them, all conversation is one sided, you get no affection, no consideration for your daily life or how you might be feeling. You get to watch your WAS put all their efforts into a life without you, you get to be exposed to their EA and/or PA. You get discarded, shat on constantly, and you have to perfectly understand their needs and walk on eggshells but they can say and do anything without any sense of the selfishness of it. You try to understand where they are and help create an environment for them to heal and they could care less about yours. You hear endless revisionistic versions of your life with them, that always paint you in a dark light. You support your family without their help and in fact in spite of it. You do your best to empathize, you provide encouragement where you can, and you get nothing in return. They refuse to work on the R at all, while you will do anything to better it."
In a nutshell, you are correct. But, rather that post this as a question filled with doubt, how about posting simply as statement about what DB'ing is all about? Because you have captured it perfectly.
You have to remember that the WAS spent many months preparing to drop the bomb. Some may have even prepared for years to muster the courage to tell their spouse that they are done. So, given that set of facts, why would you think that in the span of a month or two or three the WAS would feel compelled to come running back into the arms of the LBS.
The decision to leave the marriage is HUGE and both parties know this. That is why it is so hard to reverse course. Knowing this, the best you can do is to continue to do what you are doing with the full knowledge that it may or may not result in the renewal of your marriage.
What you can be assured of however, is that you will continue to improve YOU and that will be a huge advantage for you in the future, wherever it may lead.
Finally, it is important to remember that TIME is your friend, if you allow it to be. Make the most of the TIME you have.
I hope this makes sense.
Me51 W53 S17 S14 M22 T25 Bomb-9/11; A-11/11; I move out 11/11
It's easy to find our bottom, it is our top that requires cultivation.
Every rough spot adds to our emotional constitution. -Barney Fife
Advina - thank you so much for your kind input for a total stranger. Good karma for you!
I know you're correct about acceptance and detachment- I just need to accept that. Most times I can, like today for instance but I do so have inner mood swings with this sitch, and I really was wondering whether DB'ing actually works for the R part. I get the part about it working for the LBS in terms of self.
As far as DB'ing for me, I do understand the concept but will fully admit that I keep seeing the elephant in my emotional room - that I just want to R and live happily ever after. I feel like Butthead from Beavis and Butthead - detaching sux!
LAbug - it's so sweet of you to answer my SOS signal and I do think you are correct about detaching. I do think I have increased my abiltiy to detach from months of 0% to getting to a very high percentage. But, those dark moments are still pretty tough, but really they are getting easier to handle.
As for my W, yeah she is exhibiting everything I wrote about but she is also heavily into a life crisis and psychiatric treatment so in some ways I have hope. If she finds her answers to her life traumas and can live differently with them then maybe she will soften and R, etc. I do see that my W can have multiple responses to the same stimulus so yes, I see the extremes in her.
Hey, in more more lucid moments I can maybe help you through this too so don't be afraid to reach out! I wish the best for you.
I am really doubting that DB'ing works. you are NOT DBing for long or consistently...the previous post was nearly all about how your expectations and hopes were dashed and how hurt you were by your perceptions of her (mind reading) and your hurt feelings.
NO detachment work done. Constantly expecting...that is NOT DBing
the things you let slide in front of the boys and his girlfriend were minor but that's all I saw.
So it's not that DBing isn't working (though there are no guarantees that it'll get your w back, it DOES get you back)
it's that you are not working the DB program. Sorry but that's it to me.
Plus your wife is so messed up, you keep making this about YOU and how SHE feels...ABOUT YOU...
GAL Rick...for real.
I mean, you examine yourself and see where you contributed to the M problems, you decide to learn from it and become a better person. You GAL and detach. You give the WAS time and quiet support. That's what the LBS does.
how have YOU done this^^^^ for more than 3 days in a row? What are your GAL activities meeting other people?
What does the WAS spouse do? It seems to me that they want time and understanding.
Don't know. ^^^Don't CARE!!!! WON'T MIND READ---NOT OUR PROBLEM!!!!
During this time, everything becomes about them, all conversation is one sided, you get no affection, no consideration for your daily life or how you might be feeling. You get to watch your WAS put all their efforts into a life without you, you get to be exposed to their EA and/or PA. You get discarded, shat on constantly, you have a choice Rick. You can leave. You can see yourself totally as a victim, despite the feigned attempt at "owning" your part in this (what about that??)
Or you can man up and DO the work without so much self pity! It's YOUR work I am worried about b/c you are the one here.
She is on the fence. Where are YOU?
and you have to perfectly understand their needs and walk on eggshells but they can say and do anything without any sense of the selfishness of it.
what are YOU talking about Rick? Who told you this? It's NOT DBing...that is doormat.
Don't confuse the two. You can and should speak up when it helps your cause. Show self respect and some DISCIPLINE AND SELF CONTROL...
You try to understand where they are and help create an environment for them to heal and they could care less about yours.
(meaning, "could NOT care less"?)
Again with the mind reading. If you actually DO DETACH, you won't spend ANY time guessing what they feel or think. It won't matter. You hear endless revisionistic versions of your life with them, that always paint you in a dark light. WHICH YOU CAN/SHOULD RESPOND TO...
either say 1) "wow, I don't recall it that way at all, but I'm sorry if you were hurt"...
OR
2) if there is some truth to what they say and you want to show change, you say
"Yes w, I see that and if I had it to do all over again, there are a lot of things I'd do differently."
Neither response escalates, neither response is doormat silence and both show change or the potential for it, on YOUR end... AND btw, she's not the only one revising your marital history by a long shot.
You support your family without their help and in fact in spite of it. You do your best to empathize, you provide encouragement where you can, and you get nothing in return. They refuse to work on the R at all, while you will do anything to better it.
Rick, enough. How long have you been at this?
As for your "support" of your family and HER revision of the marriage, you'd think you had no part in the problems?
To hear you tell it, You would think you never created any dissension IN the family?
You seem to believe that a month or two of you claiming to be different,
"entitles" you to a complete turn around from her, and I guess amnesia from your w about the past several years in which you treated her pretty roughly.
You are revising things in a self serving way b/c you first felt guilt, which you converted into defensive anger, and now you want, what? Pity? Some retribution?? What's your goal here?
If it is to vent...okay, you vented...but
Is this thinking pattern helping you or your cause?
I see a pattern in your past AND in your present. Do you? ( I do)
Yeah, I'm bitchin about this. I'm typing this at the dining room table while my wife is upstairs on the phone with the OM.
Somebody tell me, help me out. How can DB'ing work at all? I feel like I'm just enabling my W to be more self centered, more able to have her cake and eat it to. I'll respond to THIS^^^ in a little while.
When you are tearing yourself apart in self evaluation, working so honestly to improve, and provising support and you have so much pain from your S, how does this work?
YOU BECOME A BETTER MAN;, THAT'S HOW...and why doesn't that count for much with you? If you were tearing yourself apart in self evaluation and rebuilding, you'd have plenty of work to do. You would be too busy to play these mind reading games and guess work about what SHE is or might be thinking or doing
or how unfair it is to YOU...you'd be working on YOU, not constantly checking for when you'll get your reward.
You mean if she does not come back to you, then becoming a better man won't have been worth it?
It's all about you getting what you want FAST, or it's all for nothing?? Really?
Really, can this work for people? Why would a spouse who has run away, and is so one sided reverse and see that their M is worth saving? It seems like the better person you become, the more supportive and understanding you become, the less the WAS cares.
it is the opposite of that.
You are missing the bigger picture here. Get beyond yourself and put your ego aside for 5 minutes.
I am NOT saying that's easy or a permanent solution
but to be objective for 5 minutes you will need to do that.
NOW, ask yourself the questions I asked of you....
is working on your character flaws so worthless a goal? Aren't you happy that you will finally push aside all the years of insecurities and resentments that you have built up and used as obstructions to real intimacy in your relationships?
Won't that be a beautiful thing?
Stop forgetting that you had a lot of flaws to work on, b/c you were very very critical of your w, for a long time, and you mistreated her, and you were very controlling. AND she has had huge deficits in her childhood...
remember how you described her past and how wounded she has been for so long?
How can a few weeks of your changes be enough for you to demand so much change in HER?
Give DBing a real chance.
Consistent changes + sufficient time = change she can believe in.
She still might not come back. But you will be the man you were meant oto become.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
