Such a great thread, and such a comfort for the Holidays! It's so nice to come here and see that though everyone's situtations are different, they're so much the same in so many ways. What has helped me SO MUCH is hearing that everyone has basically gotten the same script, line and dance from their MLCer's. A soft place to fall when so much needed.
I too question over and over again, just who is this person now? Antonia states that she read that the MLCer's only know who they really are but have hidden this away and haven't allowed themselves to live authentically. Yet the MLC is an extreme reaction that's fighting the inner person. I question who that inner person is when you have nothing but Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde going on.
My poor stbx. I look back at the heart to heart talks we've had over the years. I feel so sorry for him at times and feel such compassion. He was/is SO LOST. I remember him telling me once during the past 7 months ( BD 7 months ago) that he just gave up. He didn't have the will power to handle the stress in our marriage anymore. Yet when I look back at it, I didn't see our life at home as stressful. Definately busy but not stressful. I now think he was saying to me he couldn't handle the stress of trying to play the role he felt he had been playing and felt he was supposed to play.
I still question the purpose of his spew lately, the irrationality of it. Is the spew a product of a true sense of entitlement, or guilt which turns into projection? Is it part due to them not completely detatching from us, therefore the touch of a feather throws them into spewing? Probably all of the above.
Kimmerz, The spewing is all part of not being able to keep their emotion in check. Unfortunately, the drop of a feather will send them into a tailspin and out comes the spew.
Mlcers truly have stuffed down a lot of emotions, especially when they where children/young adults. They weren't heard or were told that people didn't care what they said. They knew that if they spoke up, they most likely would be punished. They were never allowed to experiment and truly grow to become mature adults. So, at mid-life, that is what they are doing, i.e., experimenting, trying to figure out who they are and which mask will actually become the permanent personality mask.
Here's an interesting tidbit that I got from my former MIL. She stated that my xh never smiled or showed any emotion. No one ever knew what he was thinking. I can remember many times, when he purchased or received gifts of items that he wanted, he never got excited about them. Photos that I have of my xh show him as always sullen, never smiling. I can't ever remember a time when he actually let out a really good laugh. He was always very quiet and extremely non-emotional in all situations. Once he hit 40, that turned the hands of the clock to a time when his personality began to change, slowly but surely. My xh is now a very care free individual who is drinking, partying and doing all of the "exact" opposites of what he would have done for over 30+ years. So, mlc does open the door for their inner selves to break out and escape. Inner conflict? There is quite a bit of that. Some never come out of mlc and like Bea thinks of her xh, my xh is very much stuck in the land of OZ.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I would like to offer what I might call "exhibit A", a note that XH wrote to me after a fight we had in 2009 LONG before he even met OW, but after his initial MLC trigger. In his words:
"The 'old me' and the 'new me' are in conflict. Old me was content and happy while the new me is never content and only happy when intoxicated. I'm trying to resolve the two and it's like living with a split personality. "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde' so to speak. I know you are right about my drinking and driving and being stupid. I can't argue that. I overestimated the number of beers I drank to sound cool--to try and impress you with my stupid bravado like I was in high school or something. When you critcized me for it I felt emasculated and hurt. It backfired on me. When you locked me out of our house it hurt even worse and that is why I came in on the verbal attack. When you broke that picture it broke my heart but there was no way in hell I was going to show it. I'm a tough guy."
(you can see here his confusion and evidence of my subsequent irrational behavior towards him. I had a real anger problem then if someone didn't measure up to my expectations. It's hard to know I could be that way...but you see here, the "evidence" of the confusion in their minds).
M45 Bomb 6/09; EA 6/10; Divorced 1/11 Proud single mom of 7 little feline girls and one little feline boy "Fall down 53 times. Get up 54." -- Zen saying
They also hang on, as others have noted, in ways that are strange.
A couple of days ago I got a birth notice from xh about my nephew, [his brother's son. I was pointedly NOT invited to their wedding a couple of years back while my sons all were, although they did not attend] Although I know my bil pretty well -who encouraged xh to leave me, I actually do not know this particular nephew as his parents divorced when he was very small and he lived with his mother.
Call me hard hearted, but beyond wishing them well, I do not give a rat's a** about my xh's family. His brothers and sisters cut me out of their lives the moment my xh left [after a 30 year marriage] We have been divorced nearly a year, and I get forwarded a birth announcement. Which bit of 'We are divorced, not amicably, and your family have never contacted me once in 6 years, and you think I am interested that my nephew by marriage whom I hardly know has had a son' does my xh not get?
For reasons I really do not understand they have given their son the same second name as my youngest son's first name - it is a very unusual name, and my youngest likes it. However, given the first name they have chosen for the baby is not one that most people would use, it seems likely to me that this child will be called by his second name.
Clearly my irritation at all of this still indicates a degree of attachment to the whole stupid situation. Anyway I deleted the email, and have had a small rant here. Thanks for being there guys.
Now I find that very interesting. Why would he give you that birth announcement? Sounds like some sort of "testing the waters" or small peace offering sort of thing to me. Or completely forgetting the divorce and thinking " oh maybe she would want to know". Who knows why they pull the stuff they do.
I don't blame you for not caring about his family! AFter 30 years and they cut you out? Oh Bea that's harsh....way harsh.
There will be small attatchments probably for many years for us. And after 30 years Bea.... don't expect so much of yourself. I think the wonderful thing is we can see that when we get irritated or emotional over something that means we still are emotionally attatched in some way, it's just that simple yet we've come so far to grasp that concept!
Thank you. Fwiw I do not think my xh has really come to terms with the fact that he divorced me. A process that took a very long time, as he kept changing his mind, and I did nothing to help or hinder the process. Except protect my assets as best I could, and rect some very firm boundaries
My MIL was totally for me, and remained so until she died, but the others - I sent letters of condolence when family members died, and generally tried to behave well, but it was as if I had never existed. Except for one nephew who so totally gets it, and is a great friend of my sons. He thinks xh's whole family is essentially crazy, including his mother [my xh's sister] although he loves her, he sees she is nuts.
So I think my xh is telling himself that he is being 'nice' and keeping me in the loop, but being in MLC does not take a moment's thought about how I might feel. At a deeper level he probably wants to stay connected, but really who knows?
Cadet is usually one of the first to pop in, or cat, to say how the MLCer may have a completely different meaning to saying things to the LBS.
That's generally a 2x4 to remind us LBSers to not mind read. And that when we know we are doing well detaching, we know better than to try to figure out why.
Like Bea's story about the nephew-in-law... my W did something similar very recent. Of course, I generally do not get random communication. She usually intersperses this "fluff" in a logistical conversation.
So my W tells me that my niece is interested in some heirlooms that are at our house and that my niece may contact me about it.
Is she trying to connect or did she have a convo w/ my niece that went along the lines of "i want that crap out of my house" to which my niece responded she'd take the stuff if I was OK with it.
The point is, there is no way to know why. And she then used it as a point of attack (when I asked her to stay focused on the topic at hand) by saying she was just giving me a "heads up". Of course she was. I believe her. Again, the point isn't the "nice, head's up", but rather her crossing boundaries I have stated and then attacking me when I remind her of the boundaries.
My W said my niece might contact me, not I should contact my niece. See... I'm analyzing, already...
They either have no idea they are trying to connect (and often get pissed when they realize they did) or they are trying to connect and just have no idea how to do it in a way the LBS might respond positively.
And the whole "blood thicker than water" thing. I have heard stories of the LBS and the in-laws maintaining a close R. There are many examples here.
Yet when I asked my mom about whether she would maintain an R w/ my W or the in-laws, irrelevant of my trouble with my W, she hesitated and basically said she didn't think so (with attached reasons which weren't necessarily negative).
So the point here is, while I think it is sad (that my mom... anyone in my family nor my friends) that people will choose sides, it is their choice... I have no idea how to bridge that to any more than being as cordial as possible when there IS contact, without the LBS appearing needy and pursuing...
While I'm not hugely experienced with Rs, I have been in a few and their ends are generally nothing like this. Yes, there's feelings of sorry, maybe regret... but not what's seen in these types of sitches...
Most of the Rs I've had, I've been able to regain and maintain good friendships with. There's generally no ill will. I guess it's that whole understanding that there is no pressure from either party to try to rekindle something that just wasn't working for either party.
It appears that for those who continue to be willing to share their experiences of their "MLCer", there remains what appears to be huge stress in the MLCer, regarding what appears to be their sense of feeling pressure from the LBS.
In my sitch, and I'm thinking Bea's and Antonia's and a few others on this board, I really am good with not being with my W. I'm not saying it doesn't still hurt (I believe this hurt is still more about missing my kids and not the lost love of my W) and I like to keep my distance as much as possible to help heal any latent hurt...
it appears that anything that even remotely involves "intimate" conversation (like talking to a friend who is telling us about something going on in their life), feels like pressure to the LBSer.
If I am perfectly honest here, if my W engaged me in convo about how difficult things have been for her and how torn she's been, I might open up that box of hope on the shelf. But I'm pretty sure I know better and wouldn't.
At this time I don't want to share events with my W which can be duplicated, but what remains is what I said above. When both parties are OK... TRULY OK with the intimacy of an R being over (not saying both LIKE it, just that they are OK with it), then I have found no barrier to maintaining a healthy friendship, even if it's not a close and intimate friendship.
The MLCer just can't seem to do that... to me... that still suggests huge inner turmoil for them... nothing we can do about that...
Bea, I had to chuckle about the birth notice. Many times, especially during the holidays, the mlcers will make come out of their hiding places and touch base. I suspect that your xh is doing this. He may have had a moment of clarity and decided to let you know about the addition to his side of the family. He's just sending you a little post card from Mars. It's just a blip on the radar.
Bea, I truly understand how you feel....
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Snodderly - my xh is trying to arrange to have lunch with his sons after Xmas. He emailed me to say that he didn't mind if I came along. I was utterly underwhelmed by this invitation . . . .. and declined politely.
