He dumped me 3 1/2 years ago. I didn't see him and barely spoke with him for the last half of my pregnancy.
I feel that since we have a child, we have a moral obligation to do the best we can to give her stability and to me, I can buy that^^^. the most stability we can give her is to commit to have a relationship that meets most of all of our needs. NOT TRUE.
For "the record" most of your needs and his, were NOT met by the r you had before. If THEY HAD BEEN, it would have lasted a lot longer. Period.
You cannot bring ANY such stability to THIS R b/c THIS MAN does not want it, and he is clear about that.
And fwiw, it's NOT RELEVANT that you think a behavior or choice of HIS, is "moral", in that he doesn't care what you think. HE KNOWS how you feel due to pursuit you've demonstrated a lot of.
He feels, if I may presume, that a marriage between people who love and respect and KNOW each other, is his goal and or, is worthy of his children. I'm betting that is what HE wants.
And he doesn't feel it for you. Like the books title says, "He's Just Not That Into You."
You two cannot create that ideal of stability together. You cannot even attempt it, like some long term married couple in crisis might. The FACTS ARE, he doesn't want a committed r with you. Period. NOT NOW and probably not anytime soon. Further efforts to deny this reality is detrimental to your well being and imo, to your children's. It's not honest. It's not adaptive to changed circumstances,. or to the realization of the "new" situation (even if it's not "new", the concept is new to YOU that the R is OVER for now).
I am afraid that bringing another man into the picture to meet my needs may cause more problems and complications that it may solve, especially since he really doesn't want me bringing another man into our daughter's lives.
I think most men would not want a woman like me. 45, 3 kids still at home. Very busy being a mother. I have never experienced a relationship that wasn't hard.
Well this ^^^ says a lot. Unless you are wealthy, (are you?) then frankly, a lot of men are going to be turned OFF by a single needy woman, with 3 kids looking for a daddy figure OR who feel abandoned. All the kids are at home too, so the guy HAS to be in for being a FULL TIME STEP DAD AND HUSBAND all at once.
No wonder the r's have all been hard.
Hey, no one is saying you are not a good catch.
But tell me what you bring to the table for a man who wants a PARTNER in life, not a woman with a few scraps of love and energy left over at the end of her busy day, b/c her first h deserted her and she works full time AND she makes her kids the priority AND....and...
why wouldn't a man choose someone with maybe ONE child at home, or none at home, who wants to have a romanctic relationship with him, as partners FIRST, co-parents second...or better yet, part time parents together since real fathers exist.
IOW some guys feel they are auditioning for the "Best step dad" award and they don't want that role when they are DATING..and they feel guilty when the r's end... SOMETIMES there's too much pressure to make it work b/c they like the kids, and Not the mom so much.
Tough thing to watch, so I'd minimize THAT risk!
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
why do you say he does not want you to bring another man into your daughter's life?
And why does he have any right to comment on that, since he's not available to be your partner?
Is he saying you don't need a partner -b/c that's true. None of us NEED to have a partner, and when we think we do, we send out that signal that we are NEEDY, and it's a surefire way to attract NO HEALTHY men....
What we do know, is that you do NOT need - a bad r - and that is what you have with him.
Not all men flee women with kids. I had 2 divorced brothers and they both told me that they knew in all likelihood, when they began dating again, They expected most women they were going to date, would already have kids. My brothers were in the late 30s at the time and most women over 30 have at least one child. So they expected to be step dads IF the right woman came along and, if that was the case, so be it.
They also hoped and assumed there'd be child support - so they would not have to take on other men's kids, along with their own.
In one brothers situation, that has not been the case. God bless him b/c he has supported his own daughters AND his 2nd wife's 3 daughters as well. Very frustrating but he's a bit of a hero to me and them...and she works too.
So all is not lost if THIS Cruel man is out of your life. On the contrary, good riddance. What is it that is good about him? You never said a kind word about him, just how you wanted him and came up with some "moral" justifications for him to stick it out with you and his one child, that don't make sense to me in light of you having other kids who don't belong to him.
What about them? They're supposed to like him as a step dad? He's bad enough to you...
Just get him to pay for his child and move along...you will be fine without him. Good grief, you're sure not fine WITH him...
are you terrified he's your only chance at not being alone?
I never really got the whole "terrfied" of being alone thing, but
the one thing I know for sure is, that "The one thing worse than being alone is,
wishing you were."
Besides, I have an older sister who had been married for 22 years with 3 kids, 2 still at home when Her h decided he wanted to be free and he broke her heart and left her/them. The kids rarely saw him by their own choice. He was irritable...along with other things.
She was in her mid forties. She remarried in 3-4 years, and I can honestly say, she is happier now than she EVER was or could have been with her first h.
Her first h was a taker and she's a giver.
Now she's married to another giver and in reality,
when her first h left her we siblings KNEW she'd be better off...eventually...but we felt badly b/c she had a broken heart.
Time did help and then when she finally felt ready to date, about 18 months after the divorce, she dated a bit and almost immediately was sought after by several. Then she met someone she found interesting and he was just crazy about her. How refreshing for her.
And in time, he won her heart. Her first h, DID regret his choice to leave AND he did something very unusual...
he told my sister he'd make a "huge mistake" and that he was sorry and that he "really f-- up".
She got to hear something most LBSers dont' get to hear but I suspect a lot ought to.
No matter. I asked her if she was tempted at all to go back to her first h.
She said, "I regret the divorce b/c of what it did to the kids. BUT, now that I'm in a healthy happy r, I'd never go back to what xh and I had...OMG - what a difference it makes to be with someone who really 'gets' you, and loves you, just as you are."
You are lucky in that you have three children who love you and you have a roof over your head. Do the fathers of your children pay child support?
Hope so. If not, then you must make them and that's only fair to the kids. It's not your money to refuse or give up on...it's theirs.
Also, I don't understand your other statement about having a "stable home life" for your newest child as a "family" with both parents IF her dad stayed with you in a r...
Your other kids would then have a step parent. What's so great about that? This man you seem fixated on, is not going to treat THEM well if he;s this bad to you.
Isn't your comment more about YOU just wanting this man? And isnt't there something unhealthy about wanting someone who does not want you?
Or is there some other issue you are working out in this negative relationship?
I have a childhood friend whose father never treated her well. He preferred her sister to her, and I witnessed the difference in how he treated her, versus her sister. He was a negative influence on her, although not abusive, per se.
As she grew up, she was a tad promiscous for a long time. She confused sex with intimacy b/c it was all she could get then...
She married 2 men in a row who were bound to reject her and they did. They were emotionally unavailable, talking so little it was like a challenge to engage them in conversation. She took their table scraps til the first h left her for OW.
She was devastated and married the first man to look her way. He cheated on her too and she'd have put up with it, calling it "working on the M' but he wanted out, and the more she clung and hovered, the faster he fled.
She remarried a third time, to a guy who treated her reasonably well BUT he had a brain tumor and died. Getting him through that changed HER for the better.
Not sure why but maybe b/c Finally, she was not the needy one.
So he passed away and she went back to school. Got her RN and is now a nurse supporting herself decently. She got therapy and worked on her need for approval from men like her dad....men who would reject her. That "replay" that she wanted a different ending to...finally stopped.
She's in a good r now. Finally! And it is mainly bc she finally does NOT NEED A MAN in her life.
She loves a man and he loves her. There's no "dependency issues" , no need for his validation for her self worth.
Please read "Co Dependent No More" and see if it helps.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Sorry you are on this boat. But you have come to the right place to get help.
Quote:
I think most men would not want a woman like me. 45, 3 kids still at home. Very busy being a mother.
First off, stop saying that to yourself. The day you lose confidence and respect for yourself is the day you will good to no one. Not even to your kids.
Seems like you have been extremely co-dependent. It is time to break out of that cycle and live life first on your own terms.
respect yourself first and others will too
Take care.
BITS M 38 W 36 D 7 Married 15 yrs W left for 6 months in 2009 W Filed for D 01/03/11 piecing now...
Please read "Co Dependent No More" and see if it helps
25 - I love that you are recommending this book. I've seen it on a couple different threads!
Lydia - I read this book and found it extremely helpful. Like DBing - it's not complicated. It is a retraining of all your instincts, reactions, thought processes. It's hard work...
HOWEVER...
Picking up that book was one of best $10 I spent this year. Honestly - it was a huge game changer for me.
M(f): 40 D'ed: 8/12
Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.
did you play ANY role in the demise of your marriage? Yes. I gained weight and had trouble keeping up with the housework after I had 2 kids 15 months apart.
And what about THIS R? This current relationship has never been healthy and balanced and it was okay at first, but the issue is that he has severe intimacy issues which I knew about immediately. Keeping the child we conceived is what triggered the end.
I say my children's fathers did not work with me because they would not get counseling, compromise, etc. Nobody is supposed to get everything they want all the time and I never expected to always get my way. I expect everyone needs to give up somethings or give more than they wish sometimes.
did you play ANY role in the demise of your marriage? Yes. I gained weight and had trouble keeping up with the housework after I had 2 kids 15 months apart.
That's not digging deep enough Lydia. Neither of those things is unusual, nor entirely within your control. If that's IT, then H sounds like an ignorant jerk. But you still had a role - was there good effective communication about housework, negotiation of acceptable comprises and alternative solutions, loving discussion of attraction/physical appearance? I'm not saying I did any of these things either but I'm also in this same boat here and am learning that I was passive aggressive, resentful, and almost willfully not doing things my H wanted - and he wasn't doing what I needed either because I wasn't communicating my needs to him well either. Look deeper than the surface to see if there's more answer to that question.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
I kind of wish I didn't have different threads going, but I am going to post here.
I have reached "The Bitter(-sweet) End" of my complicated relationship with my 3 year old's father. There is a chapter in the book "Men Who Can't Love" and relationships with commitment phobic men about "The Bitter End". This has been my first experience with a truly commitment phobic man. I found this book shortly after I met this man (as a friend) and before we became intimate. He was pretty much a textbook example. I felt sorry for him. I didn't think I would get hurt with him because I didn't expect us to get "serious" and I certainly didn't expect to get tied to him for life through a child.
I was horrified to find out I was pregnant for lots of reasons. But the WORST was that I knew there would be NO good way out. I thought I had REALLY ruined my life. I knew this man didn't love me and would never love me--yes, I could have "settled" for the closeness we had, but I knew from reading the book that heartbreak was in store, even though I wasn't "IN LOVE". I knew that even if he married me for the sake of the child, he would not be able to meet the needs a woman has in marriage. I prayed so desperately for a miscarriage when I first found out I was pregnant. I didn't know till she was born if he would even be involved in her life, although I was quite sure he would pay child support.
I have very firm convictions that EVERY child deserves to be conceived within marriage. I believe that EVERY child deserves to grow up in a 2 parent home with parents who love and respect each other. So, I struck out on both of these points already.
As expected (Steven Carter and Julie Sokol are spot-on about these men with commitment/intimacy issues and Susan Page has lots of good information about them to in "If I'm So Wonderful, Why an I Still Single?") our close, happy friendship eventually started making him feel uncomfortable and he started putting up barriers, displaying distancing behaviors, etc. I knew what was going on (I read the book!) and I tried to understand and adapt.
There is something else going on here, whether just a personal belief (like I have) or a cultural issue. He has not wanted me to get involved with another man. But when he sees that I NEED what he can't give me, he tells me he's okay if I find somebody else, but when I actually start dating, he gets upset (the first time it happened 2 years ago he told me I could either get married and have a husband OR I could have my daughter living with me...that was my choice) then I get upset and we have been through this cycle several times, but it seems like he gets a little more comfortable (maybe?) and seems a little calmer. He knows he is being unreasonable.
Anyway, I am seeing someone now, but I will just keep the details to myself. He tends to always ask if I'm seeing someone, how my dates go, etc. I allowed it for a while, but my therapist says I'm too open. And I was really offended when he called me after one date and said all friendly, "I was just calling to say how your date was!" And I told him how nice the guy was and how we had a pleasant evening, but then he says, "Did you sleep with him?" He asked me about 2 weeks ago about the last date I was on, and I told him the guy was nice, but there was no physical attraction. I don't know why I even answer him when HE gets mad if he is with my daughter and I ask where they are (playground, eating, etc).
I have been in therapy on a weekly basis since May and I have some medication and I have really done everything I can to work out a mutually satisfying relationship with my little one's Dad.
My HUGE hurdle to overcome was my INSISTENCE that children deserve for their parents to be together, and I knew it had to be adapted somewhat in our case (since we would not live together and he wasn't "in love" with me). It has been almost 4 years and I have only JUST NOW, REALLY accepted this truth: "Children need to see their parents happy even more than they need to see them 'together'."
For most of this last year, we have been pretty comfortable, eating a meal together on Monday nights as a family--my daughter's idea. But after our "experiment" of trying to be a "couple" rather than simply "co-parents" failed (nothing changed, other than it was part of the process of "moving on".), I suggested that we stop having the meals together and he keep her Tuesday overnight instead of just having me bring her to have supper as a family on Monday night, and picking her up after school and his supper with her on Tuesday night.
It is so hard to disconnect. But not long after that, I saw something on TV about how important it is for families to eat together and soon after, my daughter told me she wanted her father to "come to our house and eat lots of food at our table" and I asked her Dad about it and he said he'd like that. He said again it was okay for me to date and she could live with me and he wouldn't make trouble in any way (my therapist says "We'll see").
I wanted a close, trusting, PLATONIC relationship with him so I can feel safe with him and trust him. I want him to care about me (I think he does in a way) and I like for us to do things as a family even if there is no affection, sex, romance, marriage, etc.
There was an incident lately where something happened and he mislead me about what went on. I was really surprised at the level of deceit and I really am sick of this distancing behavior of his. He told me before we got intimate that "Openness is essential in any type of business/personal relationship. I appreciate people being open with me and I try to do the same". And OF COURSE, openness and honesty are CRITICAL. I have pretty much never caught him in a lie, but his deceit (it is a distancing behavior and he does it to cope with having to be close to me)is just tiresome and this recent incident was just what I needed to bring clarity to the situation.
I feel like I have broken through a wall. The answer to our situation if for us to end this relationship and start a new one with the same person, and I will eventually find a different person to meet my emotional needs that are not appropriate to even address in this new co-parenting relationship. He has no attraction to me BUT he does recognize that I am a good mother. I am a good teacher.
SOOOOOO.....I will simply see/treat him in the same way as I would our child's preschool teacher (caregiver)and I will expect him to see/treat him as he would her teacher. Civil, open communication ONLY ABOUT THE CHILD. No reason (usually) to call and "check in" when she is with him or vice/versa. A Christmas present would be appreciated but NOT expected. No questions about "so, are you seeing anyone?" or "How was your date?" or "Have you had sex lately?" No having dinners or playground time together. No trips or vacations together. No visiting each other's houses.
So, that's the plan. We will see how it goes.
I will not volunteer any info about my social life and if he asks, I will give minimal info and tell him if he is having any anxiety or concerns about me, I can recommend a good therapist for him to talk to about it. I asked him back in August to either get help so he could get close to me OR get help to deal with his anxiety about me getting close to somebody else.
Well, he was a difficult man to live with. He was always a "jerk" but as long as I was looking good and keeping up with the housework, he would not have left. I did have a bit of an attitude over the weight issue. I was over 200 lbs. when he got his new wife, but he told me I was "grotesquely fat" when I was 126 lbs. I'm 5'4" tall. I tend to turn to food for comfort and his complaining constantly kept me stressed and I ALSO felt like he should love me, anyway. And I felt like he was selfish. But in spite of all that, I did not intentionally gain all that weight or refuse to lose it.
I think we had plenty of good communication, but he just didn't care about my needs. I bent over backwards trying to keep him happy. He always told me he only treated me poorly because I let him. That is what I got for trying to be gentle, kind, longsuffering and forgiving, always looking for the good in him and telling him what I appreciated, etc...He blamed me for EVERYTHING, but after he got a new wife, he could see that I wasn't so bad after all. But I hear in the way he talks about his ex-wife that he thinks he is the perfect husband and everyone else is crazy or unreasonable.
I deeply regret not being able to get my weight down and I KNOW it would have kept him from getting another woman because he told me many times.
<<why do you say he does not want you to bring another man into your daughter's life?>> Because he has told me many times, in NO uncertain terms. But he knows it isn't reasonable. So, he will tell me he is okay with it, but as soon as I start dating, he gets upset. It is getting easier with each of my "attempts at dating", but it is not his preference. Him letting me get someone else to meet my needs for emotional intimacy and companionship and sex is a more attractive option to him than for him to try to do it. He knows he can't and won't try.
<<are you terrified he's your only chance at not being alone? >> No, I am afraid of making him mad and I have always felt weird about bringing another man into my kids' lives. Until I got pregnant, I hoped to reconcile with my ex-husband.
<<<Besides, I have an older sister who had been married for 22 years with 3 kids, 2 still at home when Her h decided he wanted to be free and he broke her heart and left her/them. The kids rarely saw him by their own choice. He was irritable...along with other things.
She was in her mid forties. She remarried in 3-4 years, and I can honestly say, she is happier now than she EVER was or could have been with her first h.
Her first h was a taker and she's a giver.
Now she's married to another giver and in reality,
when her first h left her we siblings KNEW she'd be better off...eventually...but we felt badly b/c she had a broken heart.>>> Thank you for sharing this!
