Never thought I'd be here......part 2

[workinghardguy]

Personally, I've always had a voracious appetite for knowledge. So when I am personally confident about a topic, I forget that others may not really want my input.

Amen to that... I found myself doing this even last night. W shared a story of her supervisor who told her to be careful about what she posts to Facebook regarding the doctors she works with. That she could get in trouble for that. I happened to have actually read the NLRB's decision regarding Facebook posting and employment actions and went on a little dissertation about how that's BS and actually not at all what NLRB decided. Then I realized I was just a) showing off and b) not listening - instead I was solving so I apologized, backed off and listened. I also added in that while the law may say one thing, getting fired and having to fight it would really be not so much fun.

I have noticed that I too get the condescension thing due to size and due to vocabulary. I have a very big vocab. I don't like to use three or four words where one word will suffice.

My W often doesn't know the word I use and this makes her feel dumb and small. And instead of asking for the definition she gets mad and stops talking to me; then accuses me of using those words to embarrass her. This is a big change from early in our R, when she would actually write them down so she could look them up. Not sure when that changed, but I probably should've paid attention...

[Crimson]

WHG - I think we are on basically the same page. In moments of peaceful honest, my W would tell me she is intimidated to argue with me because she thinks I am good at it. I find that ironic considering how much I absolutely hate arguing. I think the lesson here for we taller gents with loud voices and passionate opinions is to closely monitor the physical positioning of our bodies and the volume and dynamics of our voices. I remember reading somewhere on this board or in DR to talk softly to your S. For me, that means I damn near have to whisper - but I see the importance. Non-verbal communication is also something I guess you can control if you are aware of it. I have done my best to not even approach the EDGE of an argument with my W these days. Given that Ls are involved right now I find it hard.

Crimson

[rickb89]

Definitley Crimson - speak softly and carry no stick!

I think I'm talking normally and my W will tell me not to yell at her! I'm not even angry but the volume and size difference blows her away! Passion for what you are saying can be intimitating too....

[Crimson]

I love picking up my son after work and had to ask my wife to do it for me tomorrow because of a work obligation. HATED to ask simply because I enjoy picking him up and selfishly I wanted to keep that for myself. I swallowed VERY hard and texted her "Cool - I am sure he will be so stoked to see you there!". COMPLETE opposite of how I was feeling about it.

I get discouraged because I feel like I am working on these 180s and changes - which I KNOW are good for me in general, but I feel like they just bounce right off of my W without really making an impact. I feel as if I have really changed my attitude towards her over the last month and a half and it has landed me nowhere yet. It's like I am still getting the same generally frosty responses if any response at all.

I think I am just having a weak moment wherein I don't feel like anything I have done has had any influence in my W viewing me any differently. And I KNOW I should be making the changes for me but I would be a liar if I said I didn't want my family back.

I know it's a long road - but I would love to see just one positive that would indicate a softening of her position. I sit here this week just wondering what crappy communication I will receive from her attorney that will ruin my day. Seems like there are so many negatives and so few postives to identify. This process is really rough. I feel like it isn't working for me at all - again, I am moving forward on blind faith alone.

I want to ask her how her trip was this weekend, I want to ask how her new job is going - but I am detaching and can't/won't. I guess when it comes right down to it, I just miss her terribly and forcing myself to put distance between us in the name of potentially saving our M is tough on me. I know it's the right thing to do, but I can't help but feel as if she is just drifting farther and farther away from me. She seemed downright giddy when she dropped our S off on her way to LA this Saturday. All smiles.

BAH - just having a bad day I guess. Need to get out of my own head....AND hers.

Crimson

[kolja]

Granted, I'm new to the site and to the divorce busting process (and it will probably be a day or so before anyone sees this)...

But, you can't control what her lawyer sends you. You DO control whether or not it ruins your day. It might be discouraging - acknowlege it, sure. But hopefully you know yourself enough to know what would make you feel better - going for a run, music to listen to, a friend to talk to, whatever.

It's a hard habit to get into, but it seems like it's a helpful survival skill for me.

[Rick1963]

The size difference is an issue. I am also a big guy with a loud voice and hot temper. I have tried to tone it down not only with W but with D and at work. Any time she asks a question I think what I am going to say first keep it short and soft.

Regarding the L and communication keep that in mind. every time I got a request I got sad and back slide. It put me back. So when you receive any communication just cooperate and show no weakness. She is facing the same challenges even if she looks giddy.

[NLW]

Hi Crimson,

Just wanted to say I feel I am in the same place with my H at the moment.

For 4 months since bomb, we seemed to be getting on well, but in the last month, nothing I do is right, it seems. He doesn't seem to notice my changes and the frost is getting arctic.

Like you, I feel that nothing I'm doing is working, and that H is drifting farther away; getting angrier all the time.

Reading your situation makes me think that maybe it's part of the process though...

This business seems so patterned that perhaps we are just experiencing another phase that WAS's go through???

Best, NLW

[25yearsmlc]

WHG - I think we are on basically the same page. In moments of peaceful honest, my W would tell me she is intimidated to argue with me because she thinks I am good at it. I find that ironic considering how much I absolutely hate arguing. I think the lesson here for we taller gents with loud voices and passionate opinions is to closely monitor the physical positioning of our bodies and the volume and dynamics of our voices.


Just to add to this...I'm a L and have to watch my tone a lot. After all, when a woman raises her voice, and isn't sad/crying, it reads as being "shrew" like. So I have to make an extra effort to be heard in a courtroom without being "loud". I have gotten theater training for this and it really helped.

But you guys (all those who are loud) need to know something.

My dad was a brilliant public speaker w/ a projecting voice. He also had a temper (and drank too much at night).

Anyhow, when he raised his voice, I can honestly say that the content of his words no longer mattered. I did not hear WHAT he said. I simply tuned it out, seethed with resentment and fled as soon as I could...

when I got older I argued back but not "point by point". I just expressed fury and anger. And I moved out of the house and did not reconcile with my father until he changed, stopped drinking, and then we got close. Then he died.

For those who yell, or who call it "raising my voice"--- understand that you will NOT be heard. Your actual words matter very little.

You will be resented, ignored, mocked, hated, and or, Left...sorry but it's an important point.



I remember reading somewhere on this board or in DR to talk softly to your S. For me, that means I damn near have to whisper - but I see the importance. Non-verbal communication is also something I guess you can control if you are aware of it.

Men are bigger than women, and statistically a lot more likely to be violent.

Don't get defensive about this....just consider...

For instance, Even though my h has never hit me, or expressed the desire to, there are times when his tone is very intimidating.

It's Not a "conscious" thing or a belief that he'd hit me. But the fact that he IS bigger and stronger...all I am saying is, it matters....

Might not be fair, but it's reality. Same as if a gang of young men were disputing something with you. Even if they are acting "calm, but passionate", just raising their voice and standing a bit taller, are you saying you would not be at all intimidated? I think you might be....

Just food for thought.


I have done my best to not even approach the EDGE of an argument with my W these days. Given that Ls are involved right now I find it hard.



that is the most important time to be calm and unthreatening. Let your L do your arguing for you. That's what we are there for. And it keeps it separate from you...

Crimson

[25yearsmlc]

WHG - I think we are on basically the same page. In moments of peaceful honest, my W would tell me she is intimidated to argue with me because she thinks I am good at it. I find that ironic considering how much I absolutely hate arguing. I think the lesson here for we taller gents with loud voices and passionate opinions is to closely monitor the physical positioning of our bodies and the volume and dynamics of our voices.


Just to add to this...I'm a L and have to watch my tone a lot. After all, when a woman raises her voice, and isn't sad/crying, it reads as being "shrew" like. So I have to make an extra effort to be heard in a courtroom without being "loud". I have gotten theater training for this and it really helped.

But you guys (all those who are loud) need to know something.

My dad was a brilliant public speaker w/ a projecting voice. He also had a temper (and drank too much at night).

Anyhow, when he raised his voice, I can honestly say that the content of his words no longer mattered. I did not hear WHAT he said. I simply tuned it out, seethed with resentment and fled as soon as I could...

when I got older I argued back but not "point by point". I just expressed fury and anger. And I moved out of the house and did not reconcile with my father until he changed, stopped drinking, and then we got close. Then he died.

For those who yell, or who call it "raising my voice"--- understand that you will NOT be heard. Your actual words matter very little.

You will be resented, ignored, mocked, hated, and or, Left...sorry but it's an important point.



I remember reading somewhere on this board or in DR to talk softly to your S. For me, that means I damn near have to whisper - but I see the importance. Non-verbal communication is also something I guess you can control if you are aware of it.

Men are bigger than women, and statistically a lot more likely to be violent.

Don't get defensive about this....just consider...

For instance, Even though my h has never hit me, or expressed the desire to, there are times when his tone is very intimidating.

It's Not a "conscious" thing or a belief that he'd hit me. But the fact that he IS bigger and stronger...all I am saying is, it matters....

Might not be fair, but it's reality. Same as if a gang of young men were disputing something with you. Even if they are acting "calm, but passionate", just raising their voice and standing a bit taller, are you saying you would not be at all intimidated? I think you might be....

Just food for thought.


I have done my best to not even approach the EDGE of an argument with my W these days. Given that Ls are involved right now I find it hard.



that is the most important time to be calm and unthreatening. Let your L do your arguing for you. That's what we are there for. And it keeps it separate from you...

Crimson

[25yearsmlc]

So let's not call them "flaws", rather things that I could stand to improve upon. And, to your point - I never had any intention whatsoever of coming across as condescending - or anything else for that matter. I am just now realizing that that is how it is read - by my wife and apparently others. I've also gotten "arrogant" but at least that wasn't from my W.

if the feedback is from more than once person, (though sometimes only one person has the guts to say it)

then there is something to consider about your delivery, if not the substantive remark itself.

Examine it. It's going to help you. But understand that your Intent is irrelevant. Do you get that?

Not to make excuses, but I think a lot of it has to do with my physical stature. I am about 6'5" and have a rather loud voice - though I do not try to be loud. My W would often say in arguments "do you know how you are coming off right now?!" - and I would basically say no or apologize. It is very difficult for me to be aware of my stature - since I know in my heart that I am not trying to project any negative feelings. Again, I guess it is something that I am going to have to work on.

it's fair (and smart) to look at it. My h and now our son are both big men like you. I'm petite. And, it DOES matter to us. You do have to compensate for the fact that your size in & of itself, is intimidating.

All our lives, as small women, we are aware of how little physical power we have when we walk down a dark street or enter a garage. My son commented about that recently when I asked him to walk me to the car. He said "Wow mom, I forget how small you are compared to the world. "

Food for thought...I hope.


25 - I am very glad to be getting this feedback. I would say it's too late, but in all honesty maybe I have been getting it all along and never had my head in a humbled enough place to say it is a problem.

One thing this whole experience does for us, IF we are to benefit and not hole up in a corner feeling bitter, is teach us the value of humility.

IT has value when it gets us to bravely journey within, and do some serious repair work. We then emerge as better, stronger people and we make better, stronger partners...for someone.


I am surely working to improve - for me - but also to set a better example for my son and hope that someday it will help bring my family back.

Crimson

if all it does is teach your son to follow in your newly made steps, that's a great legacy for him.

I don't think it's too late for your marriage to be restored. It WILL take longer than you expected. But I don't believe a woman who once loved you deeply, has a child with you , will ignore

you as a man, IF she believes you are a very good father and that you have changed into the man she always wanted you to be.

I just think you'd have to have killed all her love-hard to do-

as opposed to covering that love by your actions and her feelings of pain, feelings of neglect, anger, resentment, and fears...

those are to be dealt with and hopefully "undone"...revealing the love below the surface.

that takes time and consistent changes on your end...