Harrier, I think your concerns and KDs are about right. I could be wrong, but it sounds like from what you wrote that you wound ideally want to give it a little more time and/or come back under different circumstances.
Harrier, I think your concerns and KDs are about right. I could be wrong, but it sounds like from what you wrote that you wound ideally want to give it a little more time and/or come back under different circumstances.
I'm not saying it changes much, but We are in MC. So I don't totally agree with the roomates idea 100%. Plus there is this idea that my wife would say this is a huge effort on her part and shows she is working on things.
So the questions is from who's perspective is progress taken?
Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet. --Jean Jacques Rousseau.
Only your perspective. And it would be based on results.
I was thinking the other day about how to gauge progress. We can't know "we've arrived" unless we know what the destination is.
We can only gauge progress if we have a clear goal and we have achieved that goal.
So if you had a goal to move back in, then this is progress.
If you had a goal that you would be in MC and then move back in, and it would be your W to invite you back and not you asking to move back, then (IMHO) the progress is significant.
If you are seeing changes in your W that you were hoping for and they are consistent and you trust them, then I would submit that is also progress.
But I really believe that progress is a personal thing.
If I could use the running example that you wrote in WCF's topic:
+ You would see progress as getting more effective at running in a certain style.
+ WCF sees progress as learning a different style.
Both of those are progress. Yet neither would be seen as progress if the goal was to run a better time, until a better time were achieved.
Maybe not the best example, but does that make sense?
Do you know if your goals match your Ws? And does that matter if this is progress for you when your W might be measuring and seeing progress, on a different stick?
"Plus there is this idea that my wife would say this is a huge effort on her part and shows she is working on things."
Probably true. Her making the offer shows her effort. You being appreciative and considering the offer shows your effort. I think that's a little progress regardless of whether or not you take her up on the offer.
You could say thanks, let me think about it because I want to know it's best for us, then see if she offers again later on to gauge her interest in it......
I thought long and hard about posting more right now... I totally agree what SL just said.
Effort is not necessarily progress. Our goal might be to walk up that wet, muddy, steep hill. We can try and try and put a whole bunch of effort into it, yet not get to the top.
Our goal was to get to the top, we did not get there, therefore no progress.
If the goal was to attempt to get to the top, with no expectations of getting to the top, but we still put in the effort when we may have otherwise not done so... then that could be seen as progress.
Sorry, I could be rambling and this has no value for you. Still, I think it's important that:
+ goals are clear, concise, and mutual if possible + progress is self measured first, or joint measured at best + goals don't become expectations + being open to course correct when and as necessary with goals
1. One of my goals (marks of progress) was to move back in. While I haven't directly asked this of my wife, I would say that she would have seen this as a mark of progress.
I didn't really give much thought to "how" that might happen other than the way as KD suggest. I knew it was rough financially, but I just figured it was part of the game.
2. her additional comments suggest progress on her part. I would agree with her assessment. The stress level between is a lot lower.
3. I could have tried to manipulate the situation, but I did not.
4. My goal was not to share the bed right away.
I understand the progress is personal, but I wonder how that works in real life. I mean piecing as I understand it (not saying I'm there yet) is a effort on both parts. However, if they have different views of progress - that will be trouble.
So I think for me to dismiss her effort as non-progress on her part (because it's personal to her) is very dangerous in my situation. Especially, since I have been accused in the past of "not recognizing her efforts) I know this gets a little hung up on the efforts vs progress. But I don't know if my W is ready to distinguish them yet.
I would take a slight disagreement with KD though. I think there is almost some progress in the effort. I mean in the hill example. I think you'd learn a lot by failing which could help you the next time. That is progress -- maybe not for the immediate goal, but overall.
Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet. --Jean Jacques Rousseau.
Well, up and down hills aside, I think you're doing fine. More importantly, your W seems to think so. You mentioned "recognizing her efforts" so maybe start by showing her how much her efforts are noticed and appreciated.
.....J3B would probably suggest some good ole' fashioned communication here, though I don't want to put words into his mouth.
glad the stress level is down. I know financial stuff can ramp that up....
Three gentlemen discuss a winter project of building a house from snow.
They determine a place and time and when they arrive, without further discussion, they go about building the house.
A house is built, but it's more of a snow shack because one was building a quincy, one was building an igloo, and one was building a snow block castle.
I suspect one of the most difficult things about piecing is finally sitting down and discussing the goals of both spouses and gelling those goals into a mutual effort.
I could agree that your W's effort is progress. I believe her comment to her about you not noticing her effort, and her actions and your response now, is indicative of progress for both parties.
Her continuing to put in effort, rather than getting into resistance because you weren't noticing, could be a baby step goal.
Your notice of her effort, when you may have previously not noticed is certainly progress.
What wasn't previously defined and stated were those goals. We can see goals and progress if we want to look for them. And again, these are certainly signs of progress.
As I mentioned in my first post, how do we know we've arrived, unless we know where we are going?
We can pull observations and call them progress, and they likely are.
Rather, we can set the goals and then there's no question about when we've arrived.
The more intermediate, smaller goals we can set and achieve can give a much better view of progress.
Harrier, I have a little thing going on that's got me spinning a bit. It would probably make any advice I offer even less useful than usual. I'm going to vent a little while over on my thread....get my head on straight....
