First post, words of wisdom needed

[Valeska19]

I am just wondering if the DBing principles still apply when you are dealing with a partner that is extremely depressed and has PTSD? I am so scared to detach because I feel like she really needs me right now and if I am not there she will find someone else or resent me for it in the future. One of her complaints about me is that there have been times in the past when she needed me and I was not there.

I understand your fear. I feared it too. But you have to realize the difference between being there vs. trying to save her.

When people suffer from depression or addiction or whatever, the spouse starts out trying to be supportive.. but it's easy to become so supportive that we lose ourselves. And when we support so much, we begin to enable, and that is NOT love.

Realize that people will those kind of problems will believe what they want, resent how the want, feel what they want.. because they have issues and its VERY easy to place blame.

Which is why it is so important for you to look within and realize the reasons behind your actions.

You have to realize when you are doing things out of fear vs. doing them out of love.

You have to realize when you are caretaking or when you are caregiving.

Here is a great caretaking vs. caregiving list.

Caretaking feels stressful, exhausting and frustrating. Caregiving feels right and feels like love. It re-energizes and inspires you.
Caretaking crosses boundaries. Caregiving honors them.
Caretaking takes from the recepient or gives with strings attached; caregiving gives freely.
Caretakers don’t practice self-care because they mistakenly believe it is a selfish act.
Caregivers practice self-care unabashedly because they know that keeping themselves happy enables them to be of service to others.
Caretakers worry; caregivers take action and solve problems.
Caretakers think they know what’s best for others; caregivers only know what’s best for themselves.
Caretakers don’t trust others’ abilities to care for themselves, caregivers trust others enough to allow them to activate their own inner guidance and problem solving capabilities.
Caretaking creates anxiety and/or depression in the caretaker. Caregiving decreases anxiety and/or depression in the caregiver.
Caretakers tend to attract needy people. Caregivers tend to attract healthy people. (Hint: We tend to attract people who are slightly above or below our own level of mental health).
Caretakers tend to be judgmental; caregivers don’t see the logic in judging others and practice a “live and let live attitude.”
Caretakers start fixing when a problem arises for someone else; caregivers empathize fully, letting the other person know they are not alone and lovingly asks, “What are you going to do about that.”
Caretakers start fixing when a problem arises; caregivers respectfully wait to be asked to help.
Caretakers tend to be dramatic in their caretaking and focus on the problem; caregivers can create dramatic results by focusing on the solutions.
Caretakers us the word “You” a lot and Caregivers say “I” more.


Realize that you CAN be there for your partner.. and she could completely resent you for that.

That the love she NEEDS may not match up with the love she WANTS.

I know it's a hard concept to grasp.. but I love my w every day. Most of the time she doesn't know how or why, and sometimes when she does.. she gets angry...

... but it's okay because I'm no longer helping her stay in that current state. If she chooses to crawl out of her hole, I will be there to help.. but she must crawl on her own. She must find reasons within herself to never want to go back.

So yes yes and YES, the DB principles still apply because it's all about working on ourselves. We work on ourselves to better love ourselves and to learn to love our spouses.

and IMVHO... DB principles are more important than ever in yours (and my) kind of sitches.

[sunshine76]

Techguy, I hadn't really thought about anxiety until you brought it up, so thank you. I actually had an opportunity to bring it up to my partner today and she said that she had already spoke with the doctor about it, but the doctor would not prescribe anti-anxiety meds until she tried the anti-depressant first.


Val, you gave me a ton of stuff to think about! I have never even thought about the diffrence between a caretaker and a caregiver. I can see myself in both descriptions so now the challenge is to figure out how to begin eliminating my caretaking traits so that I can genuinely become a caregiver.

Sometimes I have to kind of laugh at my situation because in a very sick and twisted way this has been healthy for me.

Even though I want to grow old with my partner more than anything else in this world I am beginning to have moments when I just shrug my shoulders and say to myself, "if it works, great, but if it doesn't work you are going to be ok."

Realize that you CAN be there for your partner.. and she could completely resent you for that.

This is something else that I had not thought about very much. Strangely enough I am ok with the fact that she may resent me for being there for her. I truly love her and she has always been there for me so if sticking by her (in a healthy way) also leads to her resenting me than so be it. One of the big lessons that I have been learning is how to give up control. I realize that I cannot control if she loves me or resents me, but I can control my actions and how my actions make me feel about myself.

Thank you so much for sharing all of your insight. With each passing day I am beginning to understand that this journey really is all about me becoming happy and finding peace within myself.

I know that there is a long road in front of me and I have no idea what lies at the end of it, but something tells me that no matter what I discover I will come out of all of this with a smile on my face.

[sunshine76]

Journal:

Well I have been taking babysteps towards becoming my partner's friend and it is going fairly well. Last night we were exchanging funny text messages from our seperate bedrooms. She has also opened up to me about some of the health issues that are going on with her mom and brother. I am steering clear of any relationship talks so that she can begin to trust me and not be scared to be around me for fear that I am going to bring it up.

I have asked her on a couple of occasions if she wanted to do something i.e. take the dogs to the beach, but she politely declines and then goes by herself. So obviously I still have a very long ways to go.

I am not doing great with GALing. So far I have started volunteering at an assisted living center and I got a job which I start tonight.

It is so hard to detach and try to do fun things when you want to share those things with the person you love.

I am scared that I am going to fall into the "friend" category and not be able to get out. I know that we are not supposed to have expectations, but it is extremely difficult not to get your hopes up when you have any kind of positive interaction with your spouse. For me, positive interaction brings a great deal of fear. It feels like my heart is totally exposed and at any minute she can crush it again by saying I love you, but I am not in love with you. LOL obviously I am having major issues detaching!

I hope everyone out there is hanging in there and finding peace and happiness in their lives.

[CO1978]

sounds like a good start, don't let yourself get down, its a long road, take it one day at a time. Try not to ask her to do things. Maybe you should say you are taking dogs to beach, and leave it open for her to invite herself. Satay focused and keep positive!

[purgatory]

Journal:


I am scared that I am going to fall into the "friend" category and not be able to get out. I know that we are not supposed to have expectations, but it is extremely difficult not to get your hopes up when you have any kind of positive interaction with your spouse. For me, positive interaction brings a great deal of fear. It feels like my heart is totally exposed and at any minute she can crush it again by saying I love you, but I am not in love with you. LOL obviously I am having major issues detaching!

I can relate to this I've tried to detach, and I can do it for a few days...but then my stubborn heart takes over and I'm an emotional mess again.
I have told myself to ignore the positive interactions- because I fear that if I get excited or hopeful, I'm more vulnerable to being crushed again.

I think the fact that you recognize this vulnerability in yourself, is helpful because you can actively do something about it. Maybe being her 'friend' isn't such a bad thing (for the moment). You guys were probably friends before lovers, right? So maybe there's a chance that you can be her friend to develop a new understanding of each other and ease back into the 'lover' relationship- just like in the beginning. At least that's what I've tried to tell myself

If you discover any great tips on detaching, please share

[kolja]

Hey sunshine-
I'm in something of a similar boat as a left behind husband. There's differences of course (I'm the sole breadwinner, currently receiving some outrageous proposals for spousal maintenance that make me think my wife hasn't really thought things through all the way, or at the very least hasn't informed herself about the decision). But I can definitely identify with having made the mistake of smothering my wife and pushing her away in trying to 'fix' things.

I won't say I've ENJOYED your thread so far, because that just sounds callous, but folks have posted some great stuff here. I've actually bookmarked it so I can come back and reread a lot of the great suggestions here.

I completely agree with what you've said about coming through this for the better no matter what happens with out relationships. Something I picked up from another resource, [edited by dbmod: reference not allowed], is thinking of this as an opportunity. It's an opportunity to grow and become a better, healthier person and maybe (hopefully) a better husband to my wife.

I hope you're able to find something to do over the holidays to enjoy yourself!

[sunshine76]

Thanks CO1978, you are right I should try turning the tables a little bit and trying diffrent approaches. Thanks for all the support. I will drop by your thread and see how your situation is going.

Pergutory, thank you for lifting my spirits about the whole "friend" thing. You're right starting out as friends again is definetely not a bad thing! I hope that you are hanging in there and feeling ok.

[sunshine76]

Journal:

Well today is day 2 of quitting smoking for me. God it feels like it's been so much longer I know that smoking really is a gross habit, but once you get past the grossness it really is quite enjoyable I have no idea why I picked this time in my life to quit. I guess it's because I am trying to make positive changes and it's something that I have been telling myself that I was going to do for awhile.

Things on the home front are pretty stable. My partner has been really sick for the past few days so I have been trying to help her out and take care of her. She leaves to go out of town for the holidays tomorrow. I am actually relieved to have the house to myself for a week. It will be nice not trying to read her mind or constantly wondering if I am saying and doing the right things... Merry Christmas to me!

I'm sending everyone happy thoughts!

[CO1978]

Congrats on quitting smoking, I know what you are going thru as I quit drinking. I'm at day 46. It is a very good change for yourself. A week by yourself, huh? Do you have some plans for yourself? It could be a long week unless you do some serious GALing. It is a stress relief as well not having to "walk on eggshells" for a week. Plus that first week of not smoking you will probably be pretty agitated to be around, I remember how my W was when she quit smoking, and you don't need to be like that around your W.

[sunshine76]

Hey CO, it is Kharma indeed. I don't have any big plans this week (mainly just working). I am still struggling with GALing. I am working nights and weekends so it is difficult to join any clubs... since that is when most of them meet. I know that I really need to make more of an effort with this. It seems like GALing should be fun, but I must admit right now it is just one more thing on my to-do list.


Journal:
My w left this morning and although I tried holding back tears I was unsuccessful. I always cry when people leave so it's not like my w was put off by this or thought it was out of the ordinary. She gave me a quick peck on the cheek and I gave her a one armed hug. That's the most physical contact we have had in months. I have zero expectations from our interaction. The peck on the cheek reminded me of a little kid being forced to kiss a relative that they didn't care for all that much

Oh well atleast I get a week to just focus on myself and try to figure out how to get back into the drivers seat of my life. Quite frankly I am tired of feeling like a blindfolded passenger that has no say in where they are going. Maybe it is a good thing that I am getting irritated by this whole situation? Maybe it will help me to begin detaching a little!