Doing the "Friends" Route Pt 2...

[Abbey]

A further update, just before leaving, H: Lets see how much time I get with daughter today. He then starts in about how OW got/gets what she wanted, which is to have her H wrapped around her finger, that he spends all his time over at the house, so that OW can run the roads all over the place and use him to be her taxi. OW's eldest daughter mothers, feeds the younger ones, when H isn't available. She's got it made.

Me: Well in the new year, once she tell him about you - You'll be able to go spend time with daughter, OW and the other kids. He said: We'll see. I don't think much will change. I said, really? I would think that she would be motivated to spend as much time with you as possible and the rest of her kids together? H: We'll see. She clearly wants everyone to jump to her song. She got what she wants.... *husband pauses*... looks up at me and smiles: For now. (Same look I get when his brain links to the LEGAL way to get real and proper access to his daughter.)

As I said above, the reality is that unlike some of the other OW/OM sitches here,... my H is addicted to the pull of this parasite. It's not sufficient to simply walk away... and mourn the relationship, or let it die it's own death. (As is the case in the majority of the WASs that do come back home and we all know that there needs to be ZERO interaction with the OP in order for the marriage to heal).

My sitch did that the first time. It wasn't enough. He can't simply say: NEVER contact me again. They share a daughter. He has to SEE her for what she is, a manipulative, toxic person who he gets repulsed by, because she would use his precious daughter to any degree she felt like. He has to be sickened by her, be as completely on guard of her manipulation, repulsed by her, hold contempt for her,... and basically be so irritated by her as to spend most of any interaction that he might actually have to have with her, ... wanting to tell her to drop dead.

My next door neighbor went through something similar with his daughter's mother. It was a young relationship - early 20s. My brother in law same thing with an ex-wife who became a stalker type. You CAN co parent with normally functioning human beings. However, other parents should not interact at all. This is the sitch we fall into. This parasitic vampire is NOT ever going to be able to be a normal parental healthy human being. I can actually see me having to pick up daughter from OW's H, in order to keep sanity for the little girl and for her other children. I can imagine he and I would probably get along quite well.

FWIW, I realize too that saying that a child's parents need to hate each other sounds very self serving. Perhaps so. But I also know people who although are no longer together, will go on camping weekends WITH their children, because they have a healthy adult relationship with each other and their children. They don't phone each other 15 times a day. They don't expect to their respective girlfriend/boyfriend to GET LOST so they can take over their house.

I really wish he had of had a child with the woman I first suspected he was having an affair with. HER and I actually like each other... and would have very little problems having an extended family with all of us in each other's lives. I could see the 3 way and even 4 way (her new b/f) all having car seats and each other on speed dial to co-ordinate kiddlette time.

My H still does lunch with that person from time to time. (I know about it, OW would lose her mind over it.) She had him over for Thanksgiving dinner when we were separated, because I refused to cook him a turkey. (My dim period).

Getting a lawyer isn't simply enough KML,... the pieces all have to be in place in order for him to make that step. To make that step, there are no mulligans, he has to be willing to swing the axe and not feel any remorse for chopping her out at the knees.

Abs

[Abbey]

Gosh Abbs! What on earth does this ow have??!! Honestly, what do you think it is? Two men with rings in their noses?

We've written and read all about her personality disorders, but those things tend to wear people out.

Children, combined with men who care about those children = RINGs in their noses. Thus why my above expansion about what my H has to feel towards her is as imperative as actually going full blast with a lawyer. It's not enough to feel you have no choice. He has to be so motivated to use legal means, that he doesn't care if he puts her in a mental hospital. It has to be war. Otherwise, he'll get sucked in, again and again.

The only other things that could happen as I said before, she gets him arrested by some false allegation (entirely possible) if/when he stops trying to dance to her tune. OR he sees his daughter abused by her, or her other kids.

As for personality disorders,... I know. It's f'g exhausting. She is a full blown psycho wackjob. FULL BLOWN. The problem with that is that my H has "broken bird" disease where she's concerned, he is attracted to feeling needed and useful. He feels he can "fix her" on some stupid level.

Abbey

[Abbey]

Interesting: H says today: OW is in a hissy because I'm going to family Christmas party. EXCUSE ME? This is MY family and I've been told in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that I am THEIR AUNT, THEIR SIS IN LAW, THEIR FAMILY. The nerve of that sleazy parasite eh? My comment to H: She won't be happy until you smother me dead with a pillow. I then said, well, I anticipate I'm going to that party alone, because I'm sure there will be some crisis that she'll have the day of the party to make sure you and I don't go together. I said: we'll take two cars. H says: No we won't.

Me saying now: We'll see.

H is in a hissy because she is doing a family Santa day on Saturday. H is in a hissy because she's working late nights this week... and he won't get to pick up daughter or spend alone time with her but her H will.

I guess I was "off" on my prediction of their next fight by 12 hours. I said by Wednesday. I'm off... it's Thursday morning

I said to him: Well, she can't be too mad at you, she wanted you to drive her all over the place on Tues afternoon. H: Well yeah, because she wanted something. Me: Well that's unfortunate.

Me: Well maybe she'll grow back her brain and realize it's important for you to spend time with your daughter. H: I doubt that. She's too dumb. (Huh?)

I did wonder if he was handing me a line, and he was just telling me this so he could go to her house for a little morning delight. Nope... His car isn't there. I did say: Hey, I bet you she'll want you to drive round with her today, she'll call soon. He shakes his head no. (I figure yes they're not happy unless they're fighting and picking at each other's sore spots.)

As he leaves: I LOVE you! Gives me a kiss and heads out.

Round and round.

Abs

[kml]

Don't you think she's mad about you going to the Xmas party because H has been giving her the WRONG IMPRESSION? Lord knows what he tells her about your relationship.

[Abbey]

Oh, I know he is. I know that for CERTAIN.

She is being fed the impression that I am nothing more than a room mate that he doesn't completely hate. *smile* She of course, being what she is, wouldn't be satisfied with that. She wants me out... and preferably with a toe tag, if she had her way. *smirk*

She'd have a cow that we even sit and watch tv together. He told me that he told her, that I basically stay "up stairs" and we don't interact other than for "business".

She has NO idea. None. The diff is I KNOW he lies. She still has NO idea just how much interaction we had during her so called fairy tail relationship with him during her pregnancy. She let it slip during my "invasion". "I had no idea you two were even talking to one another back then."

Could I ever open HER eyes. I know where H's skeletons are buried. Both from back then... AND now.

Incidentally, a convo with my T this week: The lies he's capable makes me very leery of him as a partner at all. Is this man trustable, at all anymore? To be honest, I don't know. I know the man he was, I know the man he can be, I know the man he isn't when she's not in his life. But... I ALSO know the deception he seems to do with zero thought, or remorse. Gallons of it. That... is one of my HUGE red flags. One of the other reasons he has to hit bottom. And if I'm being totally honest, although I love him, I also know that his ability to be that deceitful and seeing it happen with my own eyes TO me, and to others,... really fed into my inability to trust him when we got back together the first time. Now?... I dunno, I don't know if he is capable of not falling into that. It's like a drunk. Unless and until he realizes and accepts and acknowledges that he has a huge problem with this... I can't see us successfully together.

I DO have criteria for what I want/need. It's also a reason why I want my own place. Maybe this time, without the depression, I'll have enough space in my head to just close the door, because the picture is one I simply will NOT want in my life.

Abbey

[Abbey]

H came home and showed me the parasite's texts. She's a frikken loon. Threatened him with "coming to me" and telling me all kinds of crap. There had to be 30 texts there and a crap load of calls he didn't bother to answer. We discussed the back in 2009 where she filled up his voice mail with 30 messages of swearing and crying and threats and all that crap. Plus filled up his text message base with some 45 mgs in less than 4 hours. That's 75 calls for god sakes!

Told him straight out... this deserves to be said: DO NOT worry about her coming to me. I can handle her. Nothing she can tell me would surprise me, nothing she can say will effect me. If we decide to go forward, it will be "day 1" for us. YES, there are lot of things that will have to be set in stone as a couple, because I will not LIVE like this ever again. BUT... DO NOT worry about her trying to turn me against you, my issues, our issues are OUR business... and if we decide to be a family then I'm fireproof where she's concerned. You and I will have things to deal with, but those are ours and can be dealt with, given a proper effort by both of us.

He and I also had a good convo about him being ready to get a lawyer. He keeps making deals with god about saying, get the house sold, otherwise he can't afford to take her to court. When she tells her H, then I'll have more access to my daughter. I told him, you keep making deals with god still...you aren't ready yet. You get moments where you are ready, but you aren't completely ready to swing that axe. She still has the capacity to manipulate you into backing down. When you are READY, nothing she will do or say will have any effect on you. Your only concern will BE your daughter and getting her away from the influence that she has on daughter. You have to be willing to slice off anyone who gets in the way of you getting your daughter. Cuz don't worry, she will use EVERYthing she can think of to try to destroy you. If you back down, then you are destined for a life full of misery, but WORSE, you've sentenced your daughter to it.

I told him, she will threaten to kill herself, kidnap the child, accuse him of god knows what... Me: You better grow the biggest set of balls you've ever had. Because you are going to need them.

Something really disgusting: H told me something about what OW said to her 13 year old daughter, after finding condoms on the deck after a coed sleep over. Yep, coed. She told one of the kids she'd rip his balls off, but then turned to her 13 year old and said: You better learn to swallow. WTF?

And my comment: you want your daughter growing up like that? He does not.

We talked about where he is emotionally, where I am emotionally and I did slip and say: IF we decide to go forward together, there is a lot of work that we would have to do.

He's actually went so far as to say he would contact lawyer after Christmas. We'll see. But... at least we're a little further ahead than we were even 2 weeks ago. It's like ground hog day. This progression is precisely the same way it happened the first time.

It's almost selfish of me to want him to not go too fast, in order for him to adequately hate her so we can put this thing to rest once and for all. Almost.

Abbey

[MynameisMZ]

"Incidentally, a convo with my T this week: The lies he's capable makes me very leery of him as a partner at all. Is this man trustable, at all anymore? To be honest, I don't know. I know the man he was, I know the man he can be, I know the man he isn't when she's not in his life. But... I ALSO know the deception he seems to do with zero thought, or remorse. Gallons of it. That... is one of my HUGE red flags. One of the other reasons he has to hit bottom. And if I'm being totally honest, although I love him, I also know that his ability to be that deceitful and seeing it happen with my own eyes TO me, and to others,... really fed into my inability to trust him when we got back together the first time."

I can identify with THAT! It's what has been holding me back in our piecing this past year. I've wanted him to say in front of her to me that he realizes all his deceit and how he has come out of it and now realizes how wrong he was, how hurtful he was, how much damage he did. It still hurts me. I have a ton of posts about this and every time I posted my feelings, I got 2 X 4s so I stopped posting my feelings. That held me back too. To make me feel bad about how I was feeling. Basically I should feel blessed that he is with me is what I'm told. Yeah but all the times I gave him an out because he was so mean and nasty and how he lied through his teeth that nothing was going on and I asked and asked for months, giving him the chance to set me free with the truth and to allow me to decide what I wanted. When I finally did find out the truth he begged me to give him a chance and then he would run to her and then later at night he would say how crazy I was to have confronted them.
It got insane, completely insane. When she tried to frame me for a crime she committed....and HE KNOWS she did it because he told me so....when she denied it and got all mad he wrote to her, "throw her to the wolves." Meaning me. I asked him what it would feel like if he overheard his parents talking about throwing him to the wolves would feel like. It's that deep of a sick sick sick betrayal. Not only did he break his fidelity with me, but he had to throw me under the bus! Ironically it was her throwing him under the bus that got him to start to come out of the fog. I HATE WHAT HE DID TO US. He should have set it straight. He told me he would make restitution and then kicked that can down the road. I worry about this Abbs, I really worry if anything has really changed.
He says she is gone and he doesn't know where she is. She had that much of a hold on him that he is too coward to stand up to her. Makes me wonder what he is missing. In a counseling session we discussed a letter that he would write to her admitting all the lies and setting the record straight. We would then take that letter to her only friend (who I've known for 38 years) and give it to him and he could send it to her for us. MC asked me what I would think of what she would think. Good question because I don't give a rat's behind what she would think, it would be the act of doing it for me that wold really let me know he is being truthful. I still wonder what he is afraid of.
Well let the floodgates open! Sorry Abbs!

[Abbey]

My T says that it's like pulling teeth to get men to admit their mistakes. Their ego is such that it often will prevent them from not only admitting it, but doing the work, or saying the things that we as women need to hear.

While I too wish I could get the words you long for. I don't think I'll ever hear them. It does play into my indecision of if we're ever going to have a real chance. That and I know that he'll have to hate her in order to get her out of his hair for good. I know he's not ready, he knows he's not ready. At least that we're being honest about too... I'm not going to pressure him this time (made that mistake last time). Once I get the heck out of here, that'll implode on it's own.

Yesterday gave me a birds eye view of their Jerry Springer show. Jeeze Murphy. I'll journal later, but this crazy parasite keeps texting him (another some 40 calls and texts yesterday) telling my H, I'm going to tell your wife how much you love me, blah blah blah. WHOOOO CARES!? What the f' does she expect me to do?... Melt into a puddle and die?? Crazy wacko nutjob.

He showed me the texts, and the amount of calls. We had a very decent talk about he being in an abusive relationship. He admits he has to get over the fact that he loves her. My comment is the same: You have a daughter to protect. She is clearly not stable.

So... btw, I told him the story about you MZ and his eyes opened wide and was shocked. (They recognize it in others, always easier to see when you're not emotionally involved in the sitch.)

She makes claims and threats that she'll come to me, and tell me all his secrets. It's like watching someone who's got the maturity of a 12 year old girl, who has HUGE abandonment issues. She's nuts. Now more than ever, I CANNOT wait to get the hell out of here.

My first marriage was to one of these 'never enough' insecurity wackjobs. My last comment to him was: I lived this with exH. No amount of effort, love, affection, acquiescing to their manipulation and insecurities are EVER enough. I don't envy you, I know what it's like to have to break away from that.

Abbey

[Abbey]

For god sakes. I have spent the better part of EVERY day saying, that crazy B does NOT come to my house. They have another fight, and he buckles, she says coming here to drop off daughter and to talk to me.

Me: over my dead body. YOU slept with her, I did not. She is NOT allowed in this house. I don't give &^%$ what she has to say, I"m simply not interested.

Even after having numerous coherent convos with him about the fear I have for my own safety and that of my critters, he completely forgets EVERYTHING we talked about

I NEED OUT OF HERE before I squeeze the air out of both of them.

Abbey

[imthemom]

I seriousley dont know how you put up with it abbs...id have had a break down by now...i guess im lucku my H has totally cut me out of his life..u know..the old just rip the bandaide off thing...
I would call the police the second she pulls up...there would be other things i would like to do..i am a black belt in taekwondo...but i have some level of self comtrol...:)