W told me she is done & doesn't love me anymore.

[NYCPeter]

That said - be happy, man. Your W has said "sorry" and appears to be taking baby steps back to the R.

I agree with this statement. I wish my W has said "sorry" and was taking steps back to R.

In my case there appears to be no remorse and she has taken no action to take steps back - admittedly that may be due to some of the actions I have taken,

[Snowman]

I'm cautiously happy about the apology but saying you are sorry for everything without knowing what everything is somewhat of a hallow apology. I will take it for now and be happy with it but there is much work to do. She is supposedly going to setup a MC appointment so we will see where it goes.

I have 2 references for counselors but I would like to find more somehow that practice DB principles, anybody have suggestions? I know there is a chapter in DR about this as well.

I will be going to a zoo light thing with my W and S tomorrow night. That should be interesting to say the least. My W discussed doing Christmas morning together with our S. I will probably do that as Christmas is about the kids and I think it would be great for our S. I will take all this as slow as I can but I must say that it is somewhat nice to not be battling my W during Christmas. I will continue my info gathering activities for divorce until I know where this is going. I don't think my W has stopped her EA yet but I will give her the benefit of the doubt for now.

Would it be bad to request that she stop the EA as a condition of going to counseling or should I just address it in counseling?

[macvspc]

No conditions.

As for finding a counselor, find one that is marriage friendly. Do an Internet search for that term and you will find some resources to locate one close to you. I can not stress this enough. If you get a list together on ones in your area sit down with your W and decide together.

But please stay clear of ending EA as a condition for going. As for bringing it up in session, well feel out how it goes. If the counselor is worth anything it will come to the surface w/o having to do anything. As someone said on this MB - an affair is not the problem just a symptom of the problem. Or somthing to that effect.

Good luck and I'll keep you in my prayers that all will be good.

[Nblost]

Agree, if your wife will go to counseling, I'd say start.

Good luck!

My H is locked in a PA/EA and has vaguely said he might call our MC to talk...but hasn't. In his case, I believe he needs to make a decision to try and I don't want to force it on him.

[MrBond]

I honestly don't think you're ready for MC because you haven't felt the need to forgive yet. You're still angry and hurt and have put all the onus on her being the one to change. You have those expectations that you aren't willing to loosen that she has to meet for you.

The problem with that is you should go to MC with a clean slate. Not saying you forget what happened, but that you are willing to start anew and be open minded. Open minded meaning that you accept her for the way she is right now and that she is a person willing to change.

If you make it all about getting back at her or that she has to prove stuff to you, it will fail because nothing will be good enough for you. You have to have the faith in believing that she could very well be trying as hard as she can and let that be good enough for you.

[adinva]

Mr Bond's advice will enable you to get the benefit out of going to MC, but I don't believe you need to be there already in order to get there. I went to MC thinking it would show my H how wrong he was and make him want to fix our M. He went knowing it wouldn't change his mind but thinking he owed it to me.

Our very smart T was able to get my thinking on track quickly, but I went in with an open mind and desperate to find out what I could do to improve my situation. So I learned that I had part of the blame and could work on my side.

H learned that what he thought was unchangeable is changeable.

Choose a wise MC and you may learn why you need to forgive, and how to forgive, and how it's not all about W. You have to let it work and not resist it.

[MrBond]

adinva is right. It is hard though to find that perfect therapist though.

[Snowman]

Ok, enough of the speculation for everyone about what I am and am not willing to forgive. I'm really not sure I like the attitude of Mr. Bond no matter how smart he thinks he is and what he thinks I'm ready to do or not. One I don't know what I'm even forgiving at this point and I know you may say it doesn't matter and that I must be willing to forgive but I say it does matter. Everyone has there certain boundaries and I have mine. I'm willing to forgive and to go to counseling for many reasons. I know this is not a one sided thing by any means and I have never thought so. This is why I have gone to IC, read numerous books, and work on myself. I never said I was perfect or the night in shining armor but I do think I have become a better person in many aspects through this.

I am willing to change and start with a clean slate if we can get the slate clean. I don't expect her just to change as I have changes to make too. I could accept her for who she is now if I even knew who that is at this point but that is another reason I would like to go to counseling. I will not make it all about proofing everything to me. Mr. Bond it feels as though you have a vendetta against me to paint me as mean, naive, and foolish about everything. Others treat me with respect and sympathize but not you. Is that just your style or what?

I went out to see Christmas lights with my W and S tonight. It was nice and I didn't talk about our R and any shape or form other than discussing what counselor we may want to go to. I had emailed her some counselors that I would like to look into and suggest she get a list as well so we could choose one together. The ones I looked up were marriage friendly counselors as suggested earlier. She said she would research them more and help select one. Things are slowly progressing as they should.

I hope to find a good therapist as the MC we went to early on was horrible and I will not make that mistake again. Keep up the good support. Thanks.

[MrBond]

Funny how you single my comments out when most are in agreement of what I've pointed out concerning your sitch. Sympathy? I'm sure you get enough of that already. Sympathy is what keeps you stuck and not be able to move forward. Sympathy will make you feel better because it makes you feel "right", but it doesn't help to heal you, your W or your M.

All I did was make certain observations and you get a little touchy. Is this how your interactions are with your W? I have no problem with you disagreeing with what I say, but you seem to take them as personal attacks which they really aren't. No one else sees them that way, only you. Re-read your posts again and my response impartially and you'll see what issues there are.

You were the one who mentioned your W wanting to talk to you, yet not knowing what to say and you got impatient about it (or at least that's how it comes across in your message). I said maybe she's reaching out (which you didn't seem to want to consider because she didn't know what to say) and lo and behold, she did.

You were the one who mentioned about not being able to forgive or how to start and that your W has to start doing work, etc. I understand you did work on yourself, etc. and that's commendable, but if she's willing to finally get the help together with you, releasing the expectations you have of her will work to your benefit and actually start the healing.

It will take awhile to work on the resentments you have towards her. Likewise, she has to work on her own issues. However, while she's doing so, she needs to feel safe around you so she can start opening up. Trust and safety are the most important things to a woman. She has to know that you aren't going to throw the A in her face. It's going to be hard on you, believe me. I've been in your shoes. But the minute I stopped mentioning my W's A to her, the healing truly started.

[Snowman]

Ok Mr. Bond I'm done going back and forth with you. I will try to take what you have to say as objective advice but I ask that you realize that for one I probably will be touchy about things as this is a pretty messed up situation and most people are touchy lest you forgot how it was when you went through it. I will refrain from replying to other comments posted by you.

My W came over for dinner tonight but she seemed more reserved this time but we did share dinner and she said thank you. She also went to church with a friend today which is a 1st in a long time so I was pretty amazed by that. We played with our S for a little while and then she decided she needed to go. I did ask her about choosing a counselor before she left and she said she would decide between the 2 which tells me she really has not looked because I sent her 4. Not sure what to think about that but I will see if she emails me like she told me tonight. On the other hand she continues to text guys all day long especially 2-3 of them. I don't get why out of one side of her mouth she wants to work on things and comes over but on the other side she is almost exclusively texting guys all day long?(I know I shouldn't be checking phone records but she has been so wish washy that I guess I just don't trust her).

I know I shouldn't have expectations about my W stopping her affair(s) but I guess I thought if she approached me to work on the R that the EA's would stop . I told my W that I would save any questions or talk about our R for counseling so I will bite my tongue (very hard) but man it would be nice if this would stop. Well I will keep on keeping on.