DB'ing is soooo hard!

[rickb89]

Question for the DB vets (25yrs for example).

I understand that your DB'ing and sitch took years before a R happened. While you were detaching and GAL, and time was marching forward did you ever have someone express interest in a romantic relationship with you? How did it make you feel? How did you handle it, not knowing whether your WAS would ever return to you?

I am writing a book with a girl from London and we have a May publishing deadline so we are in constant contact. This is someone I have known as a great friend forever. BTW, she has a WAS too. She caught me off guard and asked if it were possible for us to create a life together. This really caught me off guard because there's never been anything romantic between us.

I am flattered by this. My immediate reaction, and then my more thought out reaction is that I absolutely do not want a life with anyone else, and I want my W to work through her issues, improve myself in what I need to, and hopefully R. I have no emotional doubt about how I feel.

I asked Kelli (London girl) if she really wants her M to work out and she said yes. I told her that I really want mine to work too.

Its nice to know someone cares though.

[rickb89]

I crossed the above out, because I want you to try and keep this about you for now.

It helps in the detaching department, and it allows you to focus on your actions, instead of how this is affecting her.

GAL should always be about you , and not used as a trick to "lure" the WAS back.

It is the time to get away for a bit and clear YOUR head. This will consume a person if one lets it happen.

So........


What is your one thing for today ???

Okay Mach 1 - I get it, although its not easy to do given my vested interest. I see that this constant assessing her reactions, my constant mind reading attempts are so draining and probably do not help the DB and GAL program.

Today's thing? That would be that I decided to re-engage writing that I had been doing in the sci-fi/spiritual/metaphysical world. This is a big step for me because I have given up things that I loved after the bomb dropped. I can't explain why this happened but I really lost interest in so much for so long.

[rickb89]

I have another question.

My W was always into me getting her little gifts that would cheer her up. One of things I did not fulfill for her was that over the years I didn't do that enough for her and she felt hurt. I realize that and started doing it again because I could see that it was one way we connected, it would make her insanely happy (like a little kid getting a lollipop).

But of course we are in this sitch and we are where we are at the moment. Wise counsel here says that me doing that now is a form of pursuit and is not good for DB'ing. It is a form of pursuit for sure.

One of the little gifts that she has always likes is when I leave flowers somewhere in the house in a vase and she would eventually find it. A while back I had done that and some of you kindly shared with me your concern that this is not good for DB'ing.

Then yesterday I get a text from her out of the blue telling me how she thought the last arrangement I left for her is one of the most beautiful one's ever.

Now, I'm confused!!!!!! I want to do this right but don't want to disappoint her if I stop this type of thing.

What do you Jedi Knights of the DB world think?

[Harrier]

I think what gets lost sometimes is the main principle of DB. This one is actually in the book- DO WHAT WORKS.

If you feel that it works in your situation and it works toward your goal. Then by all means Do it. Without regard to what the rules say.

The only thing I would say that is don't go overboard though.

[rickb89]

I think what gets lost sometimes is the main principle of DB. This one is actually in the book- DO WHAT WORKS.

If you feel that it works in your situation and it works toward your goal. Then by all means Do it. Without regard to what the rules say.

The only thing I would say that is don't go overboard though.

Thanks Harrier! I appreciate the advise! You're right about not going overboard for sure.

[rickb89]

I'm looking for feedback from my good friends here.

Someone said that it makes sense to wait 24 hours before you act on something that might be an anti-DB move. With that in mind I am thinking something through, and asking for input

Here's the question. I have been giving a lot of thought to my contributuion to the current M sitch, and what I can do in my life to be a better person/partner/friend/H.

I thought about apologizing in writing to my W for my contribution to our problems and outlining what I have learned from it and how I will do things differently going forward. I'm not sure she would know how I feel evolved otherwise.

I'm not sure. Part of me says it's honest open communication and can only help set the record straight.

The other part of me says that since she is a WAW at the moment, doing this would only outline for her again what she might be unhappy about, and that only actions will show her these changes as opposed to my communication. Also, I imaging that she needs to only hear her voice at the moment, not mine (I can picture 25yrs answering this way)telling me this.

Thoughts?
_____________________________________________________________
me - 53, her - 45, married 24 yrs
sons = 24,21,13
bombing commenced - March 2011
live together, separate rooms

[CO1978]

I would say not to, keep the negatives in the past, its not who you are anymore, no reason to remind her or give her more reasons not to want to be with you.

[25yearsmlc]

Question for the DB vets (25yrs for example).

I understand that your DB'ing and sitch took years before a R happened. While you were detaching and GAL, and time was marching forward did you ever have someone express interest in a romantic relationship with you?

YES. Seemed once word got out that I was "on the market", a number of men showed interest.

How did it make you feel?

it flattered me and reassured me. I realized I would not be "alone" if I were to divorce.

How did you handle it, not knowing whether your WAS would ever return to you?


once I filed for a sep (w/support of my DB coach and MC -long story there)

AND after I saw that h was dating, I began to say "yes" to a few of the men who had asked. Nope, I didn't sleep with anyone. Yes it crossed my mind on occasion.

It's crucial to remember this - b/c I see others always assuming a r turns totally physical but its not necessarily true. For instance, I was very attracted to this one particular OM but did not sleep with him. I wanted to, sort of.
But I knew I wasn't ready. For one, there were weird things about it b/c I had been with only one man for so long, that I felt nervous and had some insecurities about things like "how to" with someone new, and stretch marks from being pregnant. Funny what enters our minds at moments like that.

I was completely honest with both men I "dated". One guy I went out with just twice but I liked him a lot as a friend. Very funny and smart but zero chemistry. Anyhow, I said the truth, that I was sep and that I had "some hopes" for a recon but was also "open to the single life" as well.

Mostly, the men I met were perfectly fine, but made me realize that h was in fact a good choice of partner for me. For one, some of the guys had big downsides to them (like they had no money but seemed interested in mine, OR they didn't see their kids much at all, which freaked me out. OR they bad mouthed their ex wives with such bitterness I was super turned off. They were definitely not the types of men I would bring into my life.

Also I never let anyone meet my kids. I listened to my mc who advised that, "only when you are 3/4 sure you want something long lasting, do you even introduce the kids to OM, and THEN the kids retain veto power".

OTOH, my h had some forgotten upsides. OMs at work made me realize how well suited h and I are for each other. For instance, H is well educated, smart and not threatened by me being smart too, ( I had forgotten that some men cannot handle a woman with more schooling or brains.)
H and I also have similar senses of humor and a lot of history.

For every exciting aspect of a new person, I found a downside to the lack of history with them, and an upside to having a partner who "gets" you. Of course, OMs would have been more appealing if h were still complaining and belittling and acting nutty in his MLC way. But by the time I began to date he had started to act a bit more rational. Selfish yes, but not so weird.


One guy who asked me out didn't know much about current events, or anything outside of his narrow work So yeah, that made h look better in comparison. ALSO a lot of men my age are not in good shape and h is. That makes a difference too.

However, I met one man I could see a future with who was very attractive. I slowed it down some b/c I was still on the fence with h. And in truth there was an obstacle with OM, (his love language and mine did Not match) that I felt would eventually be a dealbreaker for me. I could learn to love him but I would not been loved the way I wanted to be. Or so I feared.

So I backed off...and within a few months H made some moves back towards me. And OM moved on b/c he wanted to find a mate sooner rather than later, not a woman on the fence for long, and I would have been.

I am writing a book with a girl from London and we have a May publishing deadline so we are in constant contact. This is someone I have known as a great friend forever. BTW, she has a WAS too. She caught me off guard and asked if it were possible for us to create a life together. This really caught me off guard because there's never been anything romantic between us.

I am flattered by this. My immediate reaction, and then my more thought out reaction is that I absolutely do not want a life with anyone else, and I want my W to work through her issues, improve myself in what I need to, and hopefully R. I have no emotional doubt about how I feel.

I asked Kelli (London girl) if she really wants her M to work out and she said yes. I told her that I really want mine to work too.

Its nice to know someone cares though.

so you are not confused then? Your first and second reactions are the same. So, what is your real question?

is it "when can I date for real?"

That depends on what you want, AND what you think will happen in your sitch

would dating hurt or help your cause?

(it can go either way. You have to figure it out FIRST, BEFORE you date or involve OW.

E.G., If trust were an issue before, I think dating is a bad idea for the m. Your wife will learn of the dating and if it's someone you work with, you are complicating more than one thing at a crazy time.

Second, If there was an OW in the picture in your marital history, then, dating might be fatal to the chance of reconciling. A wife who felt insecure before, will be GONE and the m will be over...


OTOH, If the WAS is taking you for granted, or has been,

then dating might be helpful b/c when the WAS sees that you are moving on for real, and or that others are interested, they may wake up.

For me, the dating was well hidden from h though I'm sure he knoww I did. It bugged him...a lot. That did not immediately lead to an obvious change.

H once spontaneously volunteered that he had "not slept with anyone else!!" and I said "that's nice, me neither"...

We have left it at that for 5 years. I'm fine with that.

Given that I was pretty darn attracted to an OM, and still did not sleep with him, I choose to believe h could do the same w/any possible OWs.

[25yearsmlc]

Rick

elsewhere you asked about dating. You said you are sure you want your m to work out. You also said it felt good to know that another person cared and I think you mean it feels good to know OWs find you attractive.

I get that. You are lonely and needy.

But you have a goal in mind AND your w has some real problems she's getting help for. She feels pretty bad about herself. I cannot see how dating OWs in your situation would be a good idea at this point GIVEN the above.

My W is going through a huge crisis and breakdown. I won't go into the details of what lead to this major crisis as I have outlined them in previous posts, but know that she has major childhood trauma in her life that is erupting in a big way now and she is doing her best to face it yet still completely controlled by it. Her leaving me but still living together is where the DB'ing comes into play.

She's like an unpredictable tide that come in and out, but you don't know when or how big of a tide or what state it will be in. I'm not a psychiatrist nor do I have any training in this so it is very hard to know what to do, all the while DB'ing because of our living together separated status. I am just letting her be, do whatever she needs to do, and quietly there for her, all the while GAL, DB'ing, raising three sons, running a real estate company, writing a novel collaborating with a girl in London with a publishing deadline, am part of an amazing yoga group.

rick your life sounds like it did before and that's fine. But you almost seemed to be complaining here, as if your life is worse b/c of your w---and I know you are hurt but--what is happening here ^^^ that would not happen with or without your w? Other than feeling rejected, which I'm not making light of, how is your life worse for this?

true-As a father your sons are hurt and bothered and I get that. But practically speaking you are pretty much going ahead and living your life the same as before, right? Did I misread this?

Maybe you are counting your blessings. I could not tell...just curious.


When my W talks to me she can literally experience an amazing range of emotions in one sentence - kind of like the four seasons all at once. She's been in suicide phase through this, escapism, depression, euphoria, rage, you name it.

Today she said that I should find someone else because she is no good to anybody anymore, that she has lost everything.

the OM is probably out of the picture and she thinks she's done too much damage to your m to "come home."

Your stability is crucial now more than ever. Being light hearted around her will demonstrate that ALL IS NOT LOST...you two CAN come back from this. Maybe rent a comedy, or do/see something she enjoys. Nothing heavy. Get her endorphins up. A back massage with no strings attached? Laughing, playing a game with sons, bowling--whatever SHE loves doing.


I told her not to worry about me, that I know what I am doing, and that she should keep working on herself right now. I said that's she's lost right now but she has not lost anything. From a DB point of view I think I played it pretty cool, but still showing support.



Spend more time listening and less time correcting her perceptions...do you get that?

Men tend to think when we women express pain, we must want it fixed. Usually we do not. We want to express our emotions and then process them and this is how we do it. If I say "I feel sad b/c I gained 10 lbs and feel fat and dread seeing my old friends" and you say "Don't feel bad b/c you look fine", you have also just told me I don't have the right to feel bad b/c I should not and that the topic doesn't even warrant more discussion.

See, that can feel like you are telling us what to feel, which does nothing to change how we feel so in effect our feelings are dismissed and the topic gets changed. In a way you never meant, it's the net effect of saying "Shut up, you are wrong"...

I hope you can understand what I'm saying and not get defensive. It's an observation about your situation and your w and your desire to control things so much...I may be repeating myself but you know, it's fine to ask her what she needs from you.

"How can I help?" Instead of denying what she just finished saying...


I thought about whether her knowing from me that she has not lost anything may not be the best DB approach but this stuff happens at light speed and I'm responding to her wild swinging emotions at the time.

well you are human and that's fine. But I would say you need to listen a whole lot more and not worry so much about correcting her perceptions. Her doctor is there for that. Also, are her suicidal ideations being reported to him or are those old feelings?

Have you read 9lives thread? His wife took her life. Check his thread out sometime.

On one hand maybe the fear of losing everything may be the impetus for her to work her way back to me and family, but on the other hand she was so incredibly down that I didn't want her to feel like she blew it all.

it won't motivate her, it'll overwhelm her.

Make sure the road home is paved and smooth. Make sure she is getting the help she needs.

Did you watch the Marilyn Monroe movie? (See it but Do not take your wife to see it, imo)

good luck Rick

and btw, don't do any dating soon. Your w sounds unstable to me.

SIDENOTE

did anyone ever confront the cousin? Does he say it's all innocent and that he was simply a shoulder for her to cry on?

I bet that is how it started. He seemed safe in part b/c of his youth.

Innocent, idealistic and not capable of using someone...(in her eyes that is)

Again, hang in there!

[rickb89]

I would say not to, keep the negatives in the past, its not who you are anymore, no reason to remind her or give her more reasons not to want to be with you.

Thank you so much. That makes good sense!