Wife Left (Part 2)

[25yearsmlc]

CO1978,

you asked some questions in general, and about Retrovaille and your situation so I'll post here.

RE, "how long does it take when someone needs space?" All I can say is that I have to see a marriage restored in such a short time as you seem to expect. She did not need a 2 week vacation to wake up.

You said that in your mc with her, that you accepted that you have a drinking problem and that you have some other issues.

What I'm not hearing is what you are doing to address those issues, other than trying not to drink?

First, are you going to meetings to get support in staying sober? My father was a brilliant lawyer and gov't official. He was also a raging alcoholic at night and it ruined my parent's m and much of our childhood growing up. I still loved him but he left us a very mixed legacy.

So if your w thinks you have a problem and a mc thinks so and you admitted to it, then it's real. How are you handling it?

Assuming that were your only issue, and I know it's not, I'd think the loosely applied rule of "month for every year of m" MIGHT apply and that would mean that you'd be sober for 7 months before you could assume your w believed the change was real.

here's the math of it----Consistent change + sufficient time = a spouse believing a change in you is real AND lasting.

Same goes for your other changes. So you are premature in thinking she should have snapped out of this by now. Very premature. See my signature block below for my time line and a different perspective on how long it "should" take.

I will post some suggestions to you that I got from my mc and former DB coach, who was such a Godsend!

This morning W came to get S at 5:30, She had to be at work at 8:30, and was saying how tired she was and didn't. like the driving back and forth. She brought up she wasn't sleeping well and didn't feeI good, then said she felt terrible about not seeing S. She then began to get teary eyed and said "I feel like such a bad mother." I was quick to tell her, "You aren't a bad mother, you have been sick, you are great with S."

before being "quick to tell her" anything, listen... and then LISTEN some more. Generally (and I stipulate that it's a big generalization)

when women are venting, we want mainly to be heard and validated, NOT fixed or necessarily reassured.

Let us talk. If you dismiss our concerns b/c we're simply perceiving things "wrong" then you are dismissing our concerns and essentially shutting us up. I KNOW that's not your intention, but it can come off that way.

it can Almost feel like what we heard was NOT a compliment but a topic change after our discussion was rendered moot...as in

"no w, you are wrong to say you FEEL like a bad mother, you are a good mother so this discussion is invalid and pointless. Now let's change the topic."

I'm not saying not to reassure her, but am pointing out how sometimes it's better to listen really hard to figure out what she needs.

There is no rule against you asking her, "W, How can I help?"

or "Would you like some feedback or should I just listen?"

If yes to the feedback, then how about, "w, you are a great mother b/c you -(GIVE SPECIFICS) and you also..."


make sense?


She said she was headed to bed, since she was so tired and would probably only get an hour of sleep in before she had to take S to her mom's.

We then started to talk a little more about her job



if she is so tired, why not end the talk then? Hear what she said and don't plunge ahead b/c of your needs. Besides, It's hard to have a good productive talk when one party is tired. Plus, talking on meant that her "tired" comment was glossed over.


and the long work weeks she has coming up for Christmas and future arrangements for S. She brought up how the dog has been kenneled up pretty much the whole time. I volunteered to have dog here while S was here, because S loves the dog.

so it's a bummer for the dog to be kennelled all day for sure, and it's nice that you offered to take him, and it's good for son too. So all in all, that's fine.

BUT note --- you wanted to FIX the problem that only arose BECAUSE she left...think about that.


The next thing you know it my 15 minutes were up and she said she said was going to sleep.


Remember the 37 rules? How do you feel you are doing with them?

How about YOU being the one to end the conversations?

How are you handling the issue of depression?

Since you agreed in mc that you have suffered from it and you both are now, are you getting help for it? I'm someone who has been there and done that so I make no judgement on it. I say do what helps, whatever it takes. Life is too short to feel crappy and have to numb the pain with booze. Plus, you are modelling behavior for your son for he IS watching you and will see you the rest of his life. Best to deal with it all now...

and your w will notice the new upbeat you and that is attractive CO, really....a guy who is down a lot (I used to do criminal law and regardless of which side I was on, it was very easy to get cynical and jaded and depressed when you are faced with man's ugliness to man, 10 hrs a day...really easy.

And that's a drag to be around if you bring it home with you...or drink to numb it all.

Bottom line is your wife will ONLY want to be married to you

if she believes marriage to you can be better/different than before.

What are YOU doing to demonstrate that to her?

what are your 180s?

That was my day in a nutshell, I worked 2 hours overtime, since I had nobody waiting for me at home and really hate coming home to an empty house. Going to go on stair stepper for a workout, been doing that the last week, since my knees have been bothering me.

Keep up any and all exercise programs you have. It's good for YOU and looks good too.


Wondering if I will get S tomorrow, MIL is going out to western part of state to pick up BIL at college for Christmas break so there is no one to watch S tomorrow. W said she will try to switch shifts, or get one of her sisters to watch him. I reminded her I have IC session tomorrow night as well. I really don't want to go another day without S. She keeps saying she wants him here as much as possible, then says how she misses him and wants to get him a bed to sleep in over there.

her choices are painful ones for her and you. Of course she'd prefer not having to make them.

The problem is, as Crimson (?) discovered, that she believes it's YOU she cannot be around and that it MAY be worth losing valuable time with son,

to not be with you right now. Yes, that's painful to hear and see. Sorry.

I am just asking you to keep the focus on what you CAN do -

and that is work on YOU...so she sees the new you.

And last but not least,

no woman is unmoved by loving interactions between her child and his father. It's a turn on, frankly.

So be the best most actively involved father you can be now, for lots of reasons.

If she seems resentful at first, it may be b/c she wishes you'd done it sooner, and if she says that, you say "better late than never" and mean it.

As for Retrovaille....

well, if your w agreed to attend, that'd be great.

At this stage she may not see any point but then, if she's willing to go to mc and it's not "just for son", then why not ask her about Retrovaille?

Maybe you can say you want to "giving your best shot". (Avoid terms like "last attempt" or "last shot" b/c it implies an ultimatum and deadline and that's just way too soon imo, and it does not produce good results).

You really are new to this I'm afraid, as She has not been gone very long.

(Yes I know to you it's way way longer. I get that...but get real CO, I mean, it hasn't even been 2 months)

Is SHE getting help for her depression? (Other than leaving you, I mean...?)

Have you asked her about it? Are you afraid she'll say that the only reason she was depressed was b/c of you?

I understand the fear but the thing is, she's still bummed out. All is not going well yet you are not in the picture.

SO maybe don't ask too much but keep in mind that at some point, she will notice her happiness level has not skyrocketed even though you, "the big grump" are not there.

Let her notice that without you mentioning it. Know that this will take much longer than you think it should.

She needs to see this and over TIME, it'll sink in..."gee, Co isn't here but I'm still bummed...maybe it's not HIM or at least not ALL him"

and THEN CO, she will look your way. It's up to you what she then sees. Is she going to see a man who impatiently thinks she should "get it by now"--

And who mutters to himself or shuts her out (which feels a lot like rejection and adds up over time)

and numbs himself so he's super UN-fun to be around?

OR is she going to see a changed man?

Become a man only a fool would leave.

After enough time has passed for her to wonder why everything isn't all rosy without you, THAT is what you want her to see.

(you cannot ever be the one to point this out, however)