Thanks Mish, faith has always been a struggle for me and, honestly, I see that as a good thing. The born again question is so loaded, it's hard to answer. For e.g., in Bookkeepers denomination once you are born again you never lose your salvation. In the Church of the Nazarene, my previous denomination , you can lose your salvation but most people there still seem to believe the Baptist version anyway! So, how do you answer that? If she's looking for a guy to thump the bible with her and who never questions his faith, I ain't that guy...and I think I made that clear. If she wants a man who respects the journey and values her experience as being just as valid as his own, then I'm good!
That was a good answer, Wii. You stayed true to yourself. I feel the same way about faith and the journey each individual takes along that spiritual path, except I'm somewhat wary of those who don't question, who follow blindly. Although, who am I say who those people are. Gah! Such an awesome subject, complex issue, yet sometimes so simple ... pray and be good.
Me:57 H:52 M:28 Got another lawyer last year and filed. D35,S/D twins28,D22 EA4/04 End? Who knows? "Life is like a mirror. Smile at it and it smiles back at you." — Peace Pilgrim
Thanks Being Me. When I first starting going to an evangelical church in one of the first sermons I heard the Pastor said "Give me a doubter any day, because those who doubt care about truth. I'll take that over a blind believer any day" Wow, I was floored. I sometimes went to a Pentecostal church on Saturday nights and the Pastor there told us that he meditates every day, he meditates to the words "breathe in God's love, breathe out fear" Wow again. At the Church of the Nazarene I attended the Pastor commented on why he doesn't do turn and burn sermons and he said "when I sit down to write a sermon I think about the people I'm going to be addressing. I think about the person who may have just lost a loved one, a marriage, a child. I ask myself 'what do these people need to hear right now' and I believe they need to hear about God's love so that's what I preach." Wow, once more. So, your denomination or, whether your born again etc can all be somewhat meaningless when trying to understand what a person believes. I tried to be honest with Bookkeeper about who I am, if she don't like it that's fine and it just wasn't meant to be.
Bookkeepers response: "Wow, you are working in the Salvation Army? That's cool! so it's your turn to ask a question." It's like chess! I did a follow up email after my first one just to mention to her that I work for a religious organization, I thought that might interest her. I got that one right, didn't I!
This email was forwarded to me last week. I thought I would share it here. A bit extreme? Makes you think.
Anyway - the background story is - Friend couldn't make it to the Philharmonic last minute so I went alone, met this guy there - went on ONE HORRIFIC date. Then got this email from him:
Hi Lauren,
I'm disappointed in you. I'm disappointed that I haven't gotten a response to my voicemail and text messages.
FYI, I suggest that you keep in mind that emails sound more impersonal, harsher, and are easier to misinterpret than in-person or phone communication. After all, people can't see someone's body language or tone of voice in an email. I'm not trying to be harsh, patronizing or insulting in this email. I'm honest and direct by nature, and I'm going to be that way in this email. By the way, I did a Google Search, so that's how I came across your email.
I assume that you no longer want to go out with me. (If you do want to go out with me, then you should let me know). I suggest that you make a sincere apology to me for giving me mixed signals. I feel led on by you.
Things that happened during our date include, but are not limited to the following: You played with your hair a log. A woman playing with her hair is a common sign of flirtation. you can even do a Google Search on it. When a woman plays with her hair, she is preening. I've never had a date where a woman played with her hair as much as you did. In addition, it didn't look like you were playing with your hair out of nervousness.
We had lots of eye contact during our date. On a per- minute basis, I've never had as much eye contact during a date as I did with you.
You said Ït was nice to meet you" at the end of our date. A woman coud say this statement as a way to show that she isn't interested in seeing a man again or she could mean what she said - that it was nice to meet you. The statement, by itself, is inconclusive.
We had a nice conversation over dinner. I don't think I'm being delusional in saying this statement.
In my opinion, leading someone on (ie - giving mixed signals) is impolite and immature. It's bad to do that.
Normally, I would not be asking for information if a woman and I don't go out again after our first date. However, in our case, I'm curious because I think our date went well and that there is a lot of potential for a serious relationship. Of course, it's difficult to predict what would happen, but I think there is a lot of potential for a serious relationship developing between us one day (or at least there was before your non-response to my voicemail and text messages).
I think we should go out on a second date. In my opinion our first date was good enough to lead to a second date.
Why am I writing to you? Well, hopefully, we will go out again. Even if we don't, I gain utility from expressing my thoughts to you. In addition, even if you don't want to go out again, I would like to get feedback as to why you wouldn't want to go again.Normally I wouldn't ask a woman for this type of feedback after a first date, but this is an exception given I think we have a lot of potential.
If you don't want to go gain, then apparently you didn't think our first date wa good enough to lead to a second date. Dating or a serious relationshop is not a Hollywood movie.It's good to keep that in mind. In general, I thought the date went well and was expecting that we would go out on a second date.
If you're not interested in going out again, then I would have preferred if you hadn't given me those mixed signals. I feel led on. We have a number of things in common. I'll name a few things: First, we're both very intelligent. Second, we both like classical music so much that we go to classical music performances by ourselves. In fact, the number one interest that I would want to have in common with a woman with whom I'm in a relationship is a liking of classical music. I wouldn't be seriously involved with a woman if she didn't like classical music. You said that you're planning to go to the NY Philharmonic more often in the future. As I said, I go to the NY Philharmonic often.
You're very busy. It would be very convenient for you to date me because we have the same interests. We already go to classical music performances by ourselves. If we go to classical music performances together, it wouldn't take any significant additional time on your part.
According to the Internet you are 33 or 32 so, at least from my point of view, we're a good match in terms of age. I could name more things we have in common, but I'll stop here. I don't understand why you apparently don't want to go out with me again. We have numerous things in common. I assume that you find me physically attractive. If you didn't find me physically attractive, then it would have been irrational for you to go out with me in the first place. After all, our first date was not a blind date. you already knew what I looked like before our date. Perhaps you're unimpressed that I manage my family's investments and my own investments. Perhaps you don't think I have a "real"job. Well, I've done very well as an investment manager. I've made my parents several millions of dollars. That's real money. That's not Monopoly money. In my opinion, if I make real money, it's a real job. Donald Trump's children work for his company. Do they have "real"jobs? I think so. George Soros's sons help manage their family inveastments. Do that have "Real"jobs? I think so. In addition, I'm both a right-brain and left-brain man, given that I'm both an investment manager and a philospher/writer. That's a unique characteristic; most people aren't like that. I've never been as disappointed and sad about having difficulty about getting a second date as I am with you. I've gone out with a lot of women in my life (FYI, I'm not a serial dater. Sometimes I've only gone out with a woman for one date). People don't grown on trees. I hope you appreciate the potential we have.
Am I a sensitive person? Sure, I am. I think it's better to be sensitive than to be insensitive. There are already too many impolite, insensitive people in the world.
I suggest that we continue to go out and see what happens. Needless to say, I find you less appealing now (given that you haven't returned my messages) than I did at our first date. However, I would be willing to go out with you again. I'm open minded and flexible and am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. I wish you would give me the benefit of the doubt too. If you don't want to go out again, in my opinion, you would be making a big mistake, perhaps one of the biggest mistakes in your life. If you don't w2ant to go out again then you should have called to tell me so. Even sending a text message would have been better than nothing. In my opinion, not responding to my messages is impolite, immature, passive aggressive and cowardly. I spent time, effort and money meeting you for dinner. Getting back to me in responses to my messages would have been a reasonable thing to do. In addtion, you arrived about 30 minutes late for our date. I'm sure you wouldn't like it if a man showed up thirty minutes late for a first date with you.
if you're concerned that you will hurt my feelings by providing specific information about why you don't want to go out with me again, well, my feelings are already hurt. I'm sad and disappointed about this situation. If you give information, at least I can understand the situation better. I might even learn something that is beneficial.
If you don't want to go out again, then I request that you call me and make a sincere apology for leading me on (ie giving me mixed signals). In my opinion you shouldn't act that way toward a man and then not go out with him again. It's bad to play with your hair so much and make so much eye contact if you're not interested in going out with me again. I have tried to write this email well, but its not perfect. Again, I'm not trying to be harsh, insulting, patronizing etc. I'm disappointed, sad etc. I would like to talk to you on the phone. I hope that you will call me back at xxx-xxx-xxxx (if it's convenient for you to talk on the phone when you read this email, you can let me know via email that you are willing to talk on the phone and I'll call you). If you get my voicemail, you can leave a message and I can call you back.
Even if you don't want to go out again, I would appreciate it if you give me the courtesy of calling me and talking to me. Yes, you might say things that hurt me but my feelings are already hurt. Sending me an email response (instead of talking on the phone) would be better than no response at all but I think it would be better to talk on the phone. Email communication has too much potential for misinterpretation, etc.
I prefer "Wow, you are working for the Salvation Army, that's cool" it's so much more concise! lol. I think "Mike" needs a wee bit of mental health counselling...The Salvation Army can help him! Thank goodness for the "delete" button, eh.
I think Lauren deleted Mike before he spent an hour typing out that email. I typed it out by hand, copying off my Iphone - no easy feat either - LOL! I just thought it was worth sharing.
