I am with yopu on the shaking and stuff. I look at my H and see someone who used to be so nice. And now he is just mean. And I walk away just so confused and upset.
Sounds like you handled it well. When I divide the Christmas stuff it will be easy. It is all mine. ;-)
Hang in there.
Me 57 XH 58 Sons age 32 & 27 M:32 D final 9/12 Bought 10 Acres and Living the Dream!
imo, no way did she want you to see the new car in a way to hurt you, if that. She is driving though, so you'd have to notice at some point.
Originally Posted By: Crimson
Got my son back today. W had told me she would drop him off between 6:30 and 7:00 PM. She actually showed up at 5:30 - she was going to meet with the neighbor's kid's and our S - but they weren't home. I had told her earlier that I would go to her place and get him and she was OK dropping him off here - even though it's about a 15-20 minute drive. sounds like a slightly nice thing to do on her end. At most, a slightly positive but don't read into this much.
It's odd for me to see her ring the doorbell to get into the house she used to live in. I had boxed up some Christmas decorations for her as well as our son's school pictures. She was a little shocked that there weren't more decorations for her - truthfully,
did she SAY she was shocked or bothered or annoyed? Or are you mind reading here?
I DO think it would be hard for her to see the house without her in it...for sure. But why make it all negative? You are letting her expression make you feel defensive and that's not going to go over well FOR you.
I can't tell what belongs to who anymore.
tell her that^^^. Ask HER to go through them if you are concerned about her perceptions.
When she was standing at the door I noticed a new key fob in her hand and walked down the front walk:
M: You got a new car
W: Yeah, the other one crapped out on me. I surprised you didn't hear about it - I had to "justify the purchase" (said in a very slightly annoyed voice)
M: With who?
W: With your lawyer. M: Oh - I had no idea, I haven't heard from him in over a week. It's a nice looking car!
way to go! You made it clear you did NOT know about the purchase or whine about it to your L AND you were upbeat about her choice. Way to validate and way to take some bad cards and deal them well!. GREAT 180!!!
W: Thanks.
Needless to say, my anxiety during the exchange was high - but I hid it and presented as upbeat as possible. She seemed "down" a little bit - I'm guessing YEP, you sure are guessing here....why? Try to stop it.
because she had to drop off our son, but my ego wants to believe she misses me and saw the tree and lights on the house and felt a little sad that she wasn't here. Probably a pipe dream, I know.
who knows Crimson? I am pretty darn sure that she does miss some things. Of course she does. And you both feel some sadness now. I believe that is true.
But I don't know if it means she's ready to DO anything about that.
You'll know when that is happening b/c I think she'll say something or act differently towards you.
I thought that as a 180 I would text her "sorry that you had to deal with my lawyer to get your care, that must have been aggravating." Is that a bad idea? In a sense it's apologizing for something I really had no idea was going on, but at the same time I want to let her know that I understand her feelings about the situation. What to do?
Do NOT mention the L unless she does, then repeat what you said and deny knowledge of it ahead of time, which you said was true, and then steer the talk to the positive.
I'd focus on the positives of the new car -She researched and chose a car on her own and got financing on her own. (Assuming she did that). Then Praise her choices as honestly as you can.
Is it pretty? Reliable? Gets good ratings? Is it "fast and sweet on the road"? Let that be the 180. Not your lack of CONTROL before...
Apologizing for the L or going on about that, just emphasizes your power/control over her life, and how you were not THEN exercising it when your L called her...why put any light there?
Make sense? And why text it? You can say it when you see her. Don't initiate about this...imo
It was hard to see her - I looked right into her eyes and she is still so beautiful to me. It really makes me feel a sense of loss --- Seeing her is hard - I want to tell her everything that I have been thinking and I know I can't. I want to give her a hug and tell her that I hope she is doing OK, and I know I can't. I want to tell her that I miss her, and I know I can't. DB'ing is tough business. I hope it is having a least a small impact on her on some level.
Crimson
someday you shall be able to tell her. And a hug sometime over the holiday might be appropriate, if it's not too long or too "needy".
IF & When you do show her some affection, make sure it's out of your comforting her, rather than needing her to reassure you. Do you get that?
but if she brings up the R over the holidays, know what you want to say, make it brief but thorough as to what you are owning. Remember those replies I gave you? They are short and sweet. Only if she persists, would you need to get into any details. If she does bring up a "problem" try hard to just listen and do NOT DO ANY FIXING...just hear how she feels.
When the time comes, you'll be able to show her that you have had an awakening and are a changed man.
But your words are meaningless at this point. Your actions are what matters (the 180 about the car was great!)
so do that and over time, she'll notice and ponder.
IF SHE brings up the R herself, THEN you can address the matters you want to.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
But how well you did in the face of such a shock! That took some guts and determination. Keep up the great work.
My view is that texting would not be a great idea. There are consequences to her actions, and she has to deal with them. It's not something that you did, so no need to say sorry.
I feel the same as you when I hear my H knock on the door and wait to be let into our house. It seems so odd.
And yes, DB'ing is a very tough business to practice. Thank goodness we have this forum to tell others how we feel and seek out advice.
Remember, it may be slow, but practicing your changes is the only thing that's going to work for you.
Never really know how the 180s land with her. Her overall affect never changed and she just ducked into her new car and drove off. I did not text her about the L at all. I will not bring it up ever. Knowing that dropping off our S probably bummed her out I sent her a message a few hours after she left, after I spent some time with S. "I can tell you are doing a good job with him. You are an awesome mom, W. I always knew you would be :)". Aaaaand, she didn't respond. She responded MUCH later telling me that the CD that I gave her with his school pictures on it didn't work in her MacBook. No mention of the compliment, though I didn't expect anything. As you recall from an earlier post, I never complimented her enough. Since I only really talk to her about the baby, I figured I would compliment her on her work with him. 180? Too much?
Thanks for your reply, NLW. Doing my best to make some meaningful changes based on last weeks introspection. Gonna take more patience than I can imagine.
To answer your question, by the way, she did comment on the lack of decorations in the box I handed over. she e-mailed me this morning and said not to worry about it for this Christmas, but when I am taking stuff down just set hers aside. I know it's looking too far into the future, but that bummed me out thinking that we will STILL be at the place or worse next Christmas, too.
The initial point of her e-mail was to ask to change the exchange time for the baby this weekend because she is going to drive to LA (5-6 hours) to visit one of her friends. Actually, it's one of her friends that I really bonded with and miss in this process. She always wanted to make the drive out to see her, but between the baby and me not wanting to cram in a car for 6 hours I never wanted to. I guess she is using this as some time to get done some things she has wanted to do that maybe I made hard to accomplish. Paternal me wants to make sure her car is running OK, but it's brand new - that's probably why she is making the trip. I replied but didn't mention the trip at all.
Don't know why, but I am still kind of shaken from seeing her last night. Can't get her out of my head. Buying the car without me was a big deal I think, since I was always involved in that type of thing with her. That, paired with her trip, makes me want to believe that she is flourishing without me and happy to be alone. Again, I know I am thinking too much here.
UGH - I know, Mach1. I hate getting lost in my head - but it's better than it used to be. Still - I know I need to let go more. I'm fine until I see her - then I get a little jarred.
If I'm being realistic, she is just trying to keep busy when she doesn't have our S. We both bum out without him.
I have been putting a lot of thought into personal introspection these last few days. Naturally, it is difficult because I am finding that it forces you to lay down your defenses and look at your actions through the eyes of your spouse to a certain degree. When the bomb was dropped in September I spent SOOO much time focusing on what was wrong with W (hormones, depression, etc.) - it was a waste. That's not to say that there wasn't/isn't validity to it - but there is nothing I can do about it at all. It was most cheeseless of cheesless tunnels I could find. That said, defenses down - here's some of my introspection about how I landed here.
I was selfish and didn't listen or pay attention to the small signs my W was sending. I operated from the standpoint that as the H, I was supposed to provide and protect and as long as I was doing that I was being a fundamentally good husband. Quote from the W on D day: "you're good at the big things - nice house, providing, finances - but you miss the little things and the little things matter!!". She would ask me to do certain things with her, like walk to the park with the baby and I would claim I was too tired because I just got back from work and just wanted to relax. She always asked me to rub her back and I only did it half the time - the other times I would just say "no" thinking that I was tired, trying to sleep or that she wouldn't do it for me if I asked.
I loved my wife the whole time, but I viewed marriage and fatherhood as responsibility - almost like a wagon that I had to pull. I didn't look at it like I see it now - it's a blessing, a gift, something that needs to be selflessly tended to. With the view I had, it didn't leave a lot of room for sitting back and appreciating my wife for simply being her....for being my wife. It was made worse by the fact that I DO have perfectionist tendencies that drive me. Without intending to, I forced my wife to deal with them. My eye never goes to what's right first - it goes to what I perceive as being wrong first and I go to "fix-it" mode. Stepping outside of myself, I can see how someone else could grow tired of that over time. Eventually, she may have thought that I was doing the same to her - not seeing her pluses, but zeroing in on her minuses and trying to fix them. She has all but said that.
There were moments that if I had an idea in my head, I wouldn't budge if she had a different idea. For example - we have a loft area upstairs in our house. The first time I stepped into the place I INSTANTLY converted it into a small home theater in my head and started making plans. After the baby was born, she wanted to change it to a play area for him with a train table, and other things. I refused to budge - even though we have a big a$$ flat screen and surround sound downstairs. Selfish. No way around it. I wouldn't even give serious thought to making it a play area. A few weeks after she said she wanted a D, I bought a train table and put it in the room and left her a note that I was sorry for being selfigh. But by then it was too late, she was already sleeping in a different room and plotting her escape to her own place. There are other examples I could give of being selfish - but just know that I see it much more clearly now.
We found a church that we both really liked. We would go every now and then - but then she started attending regularly. I didn't go with her. I chose to stay home, not because I had a problem with church but because "I have to be somewhere on time 5 days a week - I just want to enjoy down time on Sunday and not HAVE to be anywhere". I knew she wanted me to go - but I just ignored it. And yes, I would feel guilty - but I didn't change my actions. I put what I wanted above she wanted. Again, it's clear what I did wrong here and I regret it tremendously.
I ignored her subtle suggestions of things she liked me to do for her. We would wake up on Saturday mornings and she would say "Would you make us breakfast?" - I would say no, or worse yet say nothing at all. I knew that she loved when I cooked for her or when we cooked together - I just didn't pay attention.
In moments, she would bravely confess that she suffered from low self esteem and I KNEW that she needed a lot of positive feedback from me. I never gave as much as I should. I felt that she had to learn to love and accept herself - or all of the compliments in the world from me would be of little to no help at all. Clearly there was an opportunity for me to make her feel better about herself and I did not take advantage of it. I let my beliefs override her needs. Looking back, I regret that more than I can say.
I thought that as long as I was providing, giving her a good life and paying the bills that she would see me a a great husband. She was right - I missed all of the little things somehow. I missed all of the things that would have touched her soul because I felt that things that I was doing were already doing that. I was filling a round hole with a square peg and calling it a perfect fit. I was wrong. I was selfish. I was stubborn. I was blind.
I have spent so much time trying to examine what was/is wrong with her that I didn't really look at what I did to drive her away. How does a perfectionist admit that they were a less-than-ideal spouse? I was covering all of the bases that I thought mattered - and not covering the ones that mattered to her. I felt like I did improve her life - but probably just from a material standpoint - and not completely from a "true happiness" standpoint. I thought as long as there was a little blue box from Tiffany under the tree every Christmas that it would show her how much I loved her - when all she really wanted was for me to hold her hand and walk to the park with our son.
I am ashamed of myself that it had to come to this for me to have these realizations come into sharp focus when all I had to do was listen a little bit more. I can try to blame this all on depression and hormones - and maybe there is a component of that involoved, but it doesn't take away from the fact that there were REAL ISSUES driving her actions - depression or not.
So now I am asking the experts on this board - how do I fix this within myself now that I am carrying this grief around? Sure, I want to bring my family back - but I want to be BETTER first. I want her to believe that I am better and want to be back together - I just don't know how to get there from here.
I am not beating myself up here - just trying to be as honest as possible.
Crimson
Crimson - that is one of the most honest postings I have ever seen and admire you so much for having the guts to self-evlauate like this.
Please know that you are not alone in this type of self realization. I think a lot of what you see in yourself is probably pretty typical in guys. This posting could have been written by me and would have mostly applied to me too. Does this make us a bad guy, a bad husband. Certainly not a bad guy but only human and needing to evolve. Maybe not the best husband but our hearts were in the right place just not having developed the tools to be a better husband. While you and I were focusing energy at being pissed at how our wives were letting us down, we were missing so much of the obvious right in front of us.
Like you I missed the small signs, the "things that would have touched her soul". My W used to like me to do comedy routines for her, she liked that sort of simple emtertainment, the sillier the better. I would be so wrapped up in my responsibilities at being a provider and father, that I would be a selfish grump and refuse her. She used to like me to hold her feet up for her a bit while she relaxed on the couch and read. I would do it but only for a short while and then ditch her to do other things. I was such a self consumed, self focused moron! What I wouldn't give for that opportunity with her again! She wanted me to make her coffee in the mornings, I would be so wrapped up in my duties that I would literally forget it over and over again. What was I doing?!!!!
We tend to take our responsibilites as husbands and providers so seriously, and coupled with being a perfectionist (me too), tend to see everything in terms of some mountain to climb, some herculean task to overcome. In the process we forget that our wives are wired very differently, and they never lose sight of the small things like we did.
Like you I was shocked by the bomb.... thinking that I had improved her life by all the work I was doing...missing so much of the little life affirming/ M affirming attention we could have given.
What to do? I guess we man-up and learn from this, let our wives go through what they have to go through to find where/what they want in their lives, and improve ourselves in the meantime.
I was with a good friend today who decided to share with me that the bomb had dropped on his family too. The best thing he said was that he is going to completely let his W go, no expectations, no personal agenda attached to it, let her go and love her unconditionally. No small talk there. He is doing this while his W is openly dating another guy, and he has three kids at home. We spoke about the need to take the high road, i.e. no revenge actions (there's an EA, poss PA in my sitch too), that we have no right to demand anything of our wives and thsat by judging them we are closing the door to them and our own evolving. We talked about how we should be here on this earth to evolve and give, not to see what we are owed. This was not idle talk. While we spoke, one of the guys his W cheated on him with coincidently walked by us, stopped and said hello. I was amazed at the maturity my friend showed. He told me after this guy walked away that he understood why his wife made these choices and took full responsibilty for his role in his WAW.
