W told me she is done & doesn't love me anymore.

[MrBond]

"I find it pretty preposterous that you think that you have the slightest clue as to what my marriage has been like."

No one said they knew what your M was like. We only know what you post.

"I know that I have to deal with my W for the rest of my life and trust me I have done everything I can to work with her but she has not done anything."

This is what you don't understand. SHE doesn't have to do anything that she doesn't want to. What would be a reason for her to change? That's what she needs to see.

"She is not trying to get help. She has pushed her entire family away and those people that know her and care about her."

All WASs do. Read the stories of others.

"I would like you to explain how this is working on it because she tries to bait me with a text."

That's your interpretation. You don't know what the text was for. There are times when the WAS will try to reach out to their spouse. This might have been one. You just complained about how she didn't want to get help, but then she texted you. It could have been her way of starting something. You don't know.

"It is the correct attitude about her being mentally unstable because she is and numerous people have observed it, her psychologists referred her to a psychiatrist, and he own uncle who is a 20 year psychologist thinks the same. Its not like I just came up with that opinion yesterday, you might want to read all the posts."

Have you read the posts of others? They all act like that. My W included. And yes I have read all of your posts.

"I have been trying to do whats best for my S this whole time but she could care less."

Mindreading. You don't know what she's thinking any more than she knows what you're thinking.

"I find out hard to believe that a person can say that they want to talk about something and then not know what they want to talk about."

I'll tell you why...fear. You say she's "mentally unstable" well have you ever thought that she didn't know what to say because she didn't know HOW to say it? Your W communicates differently than you. It's not wise to believe that she communicates the same way you do.

"Its not like I'm the one that has destroyed the trust by running out on our family and marriage or lying constantly about things."

And this is where your resentment, anger and frustration come out. There's no problem with that. We've all felt it. We've been in your shoes. You'll have moments of peace, then intense feelings of anger, then low feelings of immense sadness.

"I feel like you guys are marriage counselors that are attacking me and my wife has no fault in this. Apparently I'm the bad guy in all of this."

You're mindreading again. No one said your W had no fault. No one said you were the primary one at fault. The point is that you are the one trying to save your M. It's not easy. But the more you continue to see yourself as a victim and not a solution, your resentment will just continue to grow.

Yes it's not fair. But NO and I mean NO marriage is perfect. To think you're going to find someone who is exactly the way you want is a pipe dream.

"I will talk to her but unless there is sincere want to work on things and great effort to ask for forgiveness for the cheating and many other things then I will stand with my decision."

And that's where your immaturity in relationships come in to play. Forgiveness isn't something that she should do. It's something that is freely given. Even if she did ask for forgiveness, let's face it, you wouldn't believe her. It sounds like you might throw it in her face. That could be what she's afraid of.

Let me tell you something. My W had an A with her boss. I did the same things you did and went through the same emotions. Hell I demanded that she ask for forgiveness. All it did was make things worse. Then I realized that I had to forgive her for what she did to me. It was hard as hell, but I did it. I stopped rubbing her nose in it. Once I did, she started to open up and trust again.

Your W needs to feel "safe" and secure with you. If you've done any reading on the needs of women, that's first and foremost. She's not going to want to be around someone she's afraid of. It take almost superhuman understanding and compassion but it can be done. If you say that your W suffers from a mental disorder, don't the vows say "in sickness and in health"?

If you want to give up, fine. But don't do it because you "expect" something of your W. You wouldn't want her to "expect" things from you would you? That would be controlling another person's life. Think back about when you first dated her. Did you have expectations that she had to meet? Probably not. You were probably just happy to be around her.

Once you start having expectations, your resentments will increase. Learn to let that go and you'll be the happier for it.

[Snowman]

"No one said they knew what your M was like. We only know what you post."

You had made comments like you do know exactly what my marriage is like. I have read numerous stories on this board and many have their similiarities but they are all unique just like all people are.

"This is what you don't understand. SHE doesn't have to do anything that she doesn't want to. What would be a reason for her to change? That's what she needs to see."

I know she doesn't have to do anything she doesn't want to and she has not. I'm not going to wait around for ever for her to want something like work on our R. Your questions about what would be a reason for her to change is rehtorical as there are numerous reasons, one being our family and son. Trying to use logic with some that is illogical doesn't work.

So far my interpretation has been correct on things. Am supposed to just go through things willy-nilly thinking she has the best intentions for me when she has treated me like dirt and said many mean or hurtful things.

"Mindreading. You don't know what she's thinking any more than she knows what you're thinking."

Thats is correct. My W has the worse communication skills ever and I don't know what she is thinking because she won't tell me therefore all I can do is interpret from her actions what she is thinking.

At this point I don't think I'm trying to save my M. I have become the WAH so to speak I guess. I know no marriage is perfect by any stretch of the imagination and I know I will not find the person who is exactly what I want but I can find someone who is willing to try and not make me live in fear all the time.

"And that's where your immaturity in relationships come in to play. Forgiveness isn't something that she should do. It's something that is freely given. Even if she did ask for forgiveness, let's face it, you wouldn't believe her. It sounds like you might throw it in her face. That could be what she's afraid of."

Wow, now you are making a judgement calls on me based of very little that you know about me and I'm the immature one. So R are suppose to work were one person just forgives the other no matter what they do and you just become a doormat. Yes, it ok to cheat on me, yell at me and our S, act selfish, and do whatever you want without putting your family first. What happen to reciprocation in R is that a bad thing to expect. The entire world resents her right now as she has made everything so public on facebook. I would freely forgive her but and I know it is a but she could not continue in her behavior in actions the way she is and have things work. If that is wrong then I guess I don't get how R's are suppose to work.

I have not demanded anything from my W at this point. The communication has been dead for quite sometime about us. I have not forced issues or whatever. I want to move on with things. I'm done living in limbo with hopes that turn to disappointment on a constant basis. If I'm suppose to accept someone as my partner that wants to be selfish about everything then I will let them be but they can do it on their own.

To be honest I don't feel safe or secure with her at all. I know what is said in marriage about sickness and health, heck we even discussed that early on and all she had to say is we have broken those vows even thought I thought to myself not we have not you have. I can't force my wife to get the help she needs when it comes to her mental illness problems neither can anyone else. I have done extensive research on mental disorders and her behavior is classic to having a disorder. Without assistance from others she will never get the help she needs. I can't wait around for years to finally let me in to do so nor do I want to go more years living this way.

I understand not having unrealistic expectations for someone but not having any expectations at all for a person is like saying I don't care what you do good or bad it's ok because I will put up with it all. I don't want to live that way. I do have some certain expectations and one being that my partner wants the best for me and is willing to help me obtain that as I hold my own expectation for my partner that I want whats best for them. If that is wrong I guess I just am lost. I can't know what a person wants if they don't tell me as you have said, mindreading doesn't work.

If my W wants to be with another man and thats whats best for her then I support it and I will help her get it but when you hold me hostage for 6 months without telling me what you want other than a divorce numerous times then eventually I will give that to her. It may be sad but it is true.

[MrBond]

"I do have some certain expectations and one being that my partner wants the best for me and is willing to help me obtain that as I hold my own expectation for my partner that I want whats best for them."

Your post was just a rehash of your previous ones. What you don't seem to understand is that during this period it will be all about her. Mental illness or not, that's how all WASs are. You continue to focus on your needs and why your W has changed because you have.

In the end you haven't changed because of expectations. And you're getting frustrated and hurt. Again, we've all been there.

WASs lie, maybe cheat, have depression, etc. Your W isn't the only one. After focusing so much on what your W has done wrong, how about focusing on something that she's done right? If you continue to focus on the negative, it will have a tendency to overtake anything good she's doing in your eyes. That's why her texting you may have been a way of reaching out to you, but it wasn't enough for you so you acted in frustration.

All of this stuff is learned. It doesn't come naturally. It's what changes your M into a mature one. If you're not willing to see to your W's needs without expecting anything back, then you might as well file today. Look at the others that have R. Some have taken years of what your W's been doing. Maybe your W feels she's missed out on something in life. You did marry young after all. We don't know. She's trying to sort things out. Even going out with the OM is like a band-aid to what she's feeling inside. Have you tried different ways in getting to that feeling in her? But again, that takes compassion and understanding without expectation.

If you aren't willing to do that (even in the short run) then file.

[2thepoint]

"So R are suppose to work were one person just forgives the other no matter what they do and you just become a doormat. Yes, it ok to cheat on me, yell at me and our S, act selfish, and do whatever you want without putting your family first. What happen to reciprocation in R is that a bad thing to expect."

FWIW I don't think you are anywhere near ready to forgive. There is just an awful lot of bitterness coming across in your post. It is all understandable, don't get me wrong. But, you do have to get past the bitterness before you will ever be ready and/or able to forgive.

It has been said on this forum a thousand times; you change, then your partner changes. Someone has to take the first step. Maybe even the first several steps before the other party is willing to take a step.

So, what are you doing to change? Have you figured out your role in the breakdown of the M? You've got to dig deep to understand what is at the root of the issues in your M that you can control.

Have you been digging?

[CO1978]

Its always easy to point the finger, I did, then I realized "Crap, I am part of the reason she is acting like this!" If you really value your marriage, and think its worth saving listen to these people. If you don't care and think none of this is your fault and divorce is the only option than there is no reason for you to reach out on this board. No one said you W doesnt have problems, but the only thing you can do right now is fix you. DBing is about saving ourselves first only then can we save our marriage. You may not like the tone of Mr. Bond, he may come off harsh, but he knows what he is talking about.

[Snowman]

Well, my wife texted me last friday saying she thinks she wants to try counseling. I going out of town and told her I would think about it while I was out of town and I would like to talk to her before I make a decision. I just got home today and she is already texting me about come over tonight. This is all going way to fast but I'm willing to talk to see what she has to say. To be honest I'm not sure what my decision is at this point but I'm willing to at least listen, talk, and maybe go to counseling.

I have had my up and down times of bitterness with all of this. I seriously was ready to move on when all this happened. It is all too crazy for me. Everyone and I mean everyone is telling me to move on including her own mother. I know it is not their decision but I had moved on in every action I could including starting the papers.

I will try to be open for now to see where this goes but their is some major work ahead one way or another. This is the crazy thing I have ever been through. I will keep you guys updated.

[CO1978]

Good to hear how things are, just remember (since you even said its going to fast) to take things slow. Counseling is a great thing, even if its IC. She is reaching out to you, and there is always major work to do, try to keep an open mind and your head up. Good luck.

[Snowman]

Well, I ended up taking my S to the doctor this evening and my wife joined me. She then got my sons prescription and joined us for dinner tonight along with playing with him, bathing him, and putting him down. It was weird to say the least.

We then talked about us which was weird. I let her talk as she is the one wanting to now. She said sorry for everything which is a very broad statement. I asked her why the change of heart and she said that her IC asked her what she would miss about me and at first she said nothing. Then she started to say some things that she would which were the good times that we had together and our family. She has the papers finished but didn't file because of this. I told her about how hard it would be for me to trust her again after all the water that has gone under the bridge. She said she knew there would have to be a lot of work done on building trust again. I said I assume she knew that I know what has happened and she said she doesn't know what I know. I asked her if now was appropriate to ask her about what she has done and she said no. I told her I knew a lot of what has happened but I would wait to discuss that later. I told her I felt like this is the 11 hour so to speak and I was ready to move on with my life and you now are wanting to do what I was asking all along. She said that she was so mad and couldn't see it all this time. I told her she has pushed away so many people and she has acknowledged that. I told her there have been a lot of tears shed for her by many and she said there has been by her as well even though you may not believe so. I told her there is not any cheerleaders on my side anymore as there really is not.

I said this is not the first round for us and this is really the 2nd round and I don't want to do another round. I said I would be willing to go to counseling to see where this goes. She then was basically ready to leave. She said thank you for hanging out and letting her come over. I agreed to go see the Christmas lights with her on Thursday. I texted her after she left as to what counselor we would go to and said I don't care I haven't looked into one. I then called her as I thought she was upset or something but she was just stated she hadn't looked. I mentioned the one that my BIL and sister went to. She said we could go there. I guess we will see. I will send her the info so she can set it up. She didn't seem that committed to working on this even as the cheater but I guess we will see.

My question to others is how can you trust again. How can you not constantly worry about them or have a lurking trust problem in the person?

[labug]

Wow, your response sounds very stern, paternal and judgmental. Is that how you wanted to sound? I understand you feel hurt and cuckolded but she made a huge movement back toward the marriage. She eff'd up, she knows that, she admitted it, and she seems to be willing to work on it.

The ball was clearly in your court. It's healthy to set boundaries about the counseling and what your are willing to do but try to approach it from a place of love not resentment and anger.

This is hard stuff, I hope it works out for you. Only you can decide if yo can forgive and trust again.

[Crimson]

My typical disclaimer: I am in no position to really advise anyone given my situation. But I will take a stab here.

Trust, as I see it, is something that you either have or don't have for/with someone and by all measurable standards it can come and go in the course of a relationship. Not to sound overtly negative, but for right now I think it is perfectly reasonable to NOT trust 100% given your situation and let it be rebuilt over time. Central to this process is your ability to forgive and move past any wrong-doings by W. If you can't forgive, you can't trust. If you can't trust you can't have a stable relationship. The two are quite connected.

That said - be happy, man. Your W has said "sorry" and appears to be taking baby steps back to the R. There are countless posters and lurkers here that envy the sh*t out of you. Myself included! Take it as a gift and cautiously run with it.

Crimson