Don't know how much longer I can endure this!

[cat04]

Like I have stated before, there are days that I am sure it is MLC and days where I wonder if I am just hoping it is MLC... most likely so I won't have to be accountable for my sortcomings.

First and foremost...

MLC or not...

You must be accountable for your shortcomings.

We all must be accountable for our shortcomings.

So don't think that MLC let's you off the hook for anything...

Funny thing...

I could have written alot of what you have written this afternoon.

I am the smart one. The one that people come to for answers.

I am kind and a giver. It is in my nature to nurture.

It is who I am. It feeds my soul.

However, it is also an easy scapegoat excuse for when I don't want to give to someone.

"I am always sacraficing...it's someone else's turn"

And it is an easy way to justify not doing for someone, when you want to punish without it looking like a punishment. Instead, it can come across as doing something for yourself...

It also allows us to step into the "victim" role very easily...

Are you a victim?

From your last post, it seems that you were victimized often during your life...

It also appears that is how you continue to see yourself...

For the moment, let's take a leap of faith and say that there will be no more wondering if it is MLC or not...

Let's say it is...banish that question from your mind...

What about you still needs to be worked on?

What about you do you want to change?

How can you begin to do that in your life, not within the context of your M?

[tested metal]

I need to be more assertive and stand up for myself.

I need to be able to accept that not everyone has to like me and it is not necessarily my fault all the time.

I accept the fact that part of me does want to punish W for hurting me and I don't really like that part of me right now. I am working on changing that.

From now on I will set boundaries with others and do things because I want to, not because I feel I have to. If I do a generous act then it will be because I want to for the sake that it is a generous act and nothing more.


I need to make sure that this mess will not affect my relationships with others or future relationships regarding trusting them.

[Kimmerz]

Hey Tm and Cat,
I just wanted to thank you for what you posted today. I say this because I see alot of my stbx in your words. I have tried so hard to understand that man, before he left, after he left, and still 3 months after we quit talking. I've read the 5 love languages and knew his was Acts of Service. AFter reading what you posted, I can see so much in him and appreciate what validation it's given me. Now I've got the compassion for the MLCer all over the place....because I undestand so much more now!

TM his past was much like yours.I feel for you, and felt for him. I too realized his Love Language was acts of service.

And Cat I did see in him that he also used the act of sacrificing all the time as a way to not do anything to punish others but to punish me... oh how to punish me.

Yes setting boundaries and working on becoming assertive will be so empowering for you TM! I encourage you to do that.

I get the idea that you're passive when it comes to communication, is this correct?

Thank you for sharing. I appreciate it. It's helping me!

[tested metal]

I am passive in communication, but do speak up if something truely bothers me enough.

For instance I would not speak up how it bothered me if W came home at 5 am. after being at the bar for fear of being seen as controlling. She would ask me permission to go out and stay out (not that i demanded permission or controlled her at all), and I would constantly tell her that she doesn't need my permission. She was my spouse, not my possession.

It seems like maybe she was cueing me to keep her in check by saying no, but I wanted her to be home with me, to be with me, not because she felt she had to. The aggressive part came in when she would return home so drunk, she would run to the bathroom all night and puke, or ask me to put a garbage pail by the bed. I finally told her if she was going to get that drunk then she was on her own with taking care of herself. I also didn't think she was setting a good example for our infant daughter and asked her to please reduce the drinking and come home earlier.

Finally, she just kept doing it more frequently to the point that when I started requesting she stay home because I was afraid that she would just repeat the same routine; She would promise that she would limit what she drank and would be home by a certain time. She would still come back home drunk at 5 am. She had already started her affair and didn't care.

If i would have not been so passive aggressive about the ordeal it probably would have been better. (at least it couldn't have hurt)

This story is not so much about what the W did, but how my role with sending mixed messages had played into our problems.

I am glad this is helping someone. I would like to thank folks for listening and challeging me, because I need it. Thank you!

[Kimmerz]

Hey Tm,

I don't see you being passive aggressive at all in that situation. The action you took was setting a BOUNDARY, and that was healthy!I can tell by your words you're still taking alot of blame. I've been through this so I know. I think that when we first look at ourselves and find where we need to be accountable, we tend to become overwhelmed with guilt.

One way I looked at it was that I was welcoming my mistakes, and paying attention to them. I looked at what role they played in the dynamic of the issue we were having at the time or the overall relationship. Hind sight is 20/20. Remember we all do the best we know to do at any given time.



My take on passive aggressiveness is someone purposely being passive, yet using it to retaliate back at you, or control you.

A classic example is when a person may get frustrated or upset with someone, but choose not to express it at all. Instead they decide it's best to stay silent,cold and distant.... for very long periods of time. The other person has no idea what's really going on, but knows the other is upset. When asked there is either no answer, rude comment, or it's brushed off.

Withholding affection or not reciprocating affection when you're angry with your partner is another. Once again the partner can tell something is wrong, but doesn't understand. Once again upon asked, it's an excuse of " nothing", when there really is.

Another is not taking action or stepping up to the plate purposely in situations when you know it could be helpful to someone else.

We've all been upset and said " nothing" alot when we were upset. I know I did it because i was so mad I knew i was going to blow and needed to get my emotions in check and control before attacking any issues.

I don't think you're behavior contributed to anything she was doing in regards to going out and getting drunk. Remember she's an adult and controls her choices. She made that choice and it wasn't under you're control.

Thanks for sharing I really appreciate it. Do you still feel like her Love Language is Acts of Service?

FYI Mine are Words of Affirmation and Physical Touch. I now know that we tend to give out what we want to receive. STBX seemed to think A big screen tv, brand new computer, and new cell phone last christmas would somehow get me to reciprocate and act of service I think.

As much as I loved those new toys, what I really wanted was him to hug me, and say something kind to me. This is where it gets "tricky" and dysfunctional. As I want Physical Touch and Affirmation, I give that to him. Yet he rejected that, time and time again... for months this would go on. He then told me right after moving out that he rejected me because he was scared to get too close for fear of me rejecting him. Passive Aggressive? Complete break down in communication? Emotional Abuse? All of the above? I don't know.

But what I wouldn't give for him to have been able to just have found the courage to just talk to me about it, and be assertive.

[cat04]

I need to be more assertive and stand up for myself.

I need to be able to accept that not everyone has to like me and it is not necessarily my fault all the time.

No TM, not everyone has to like you.

However you don’t have to be a jerk to people either in order to be assertive.

What does being assertive look like to you? How do you define it?

I need to make sure that this mess will not affect my relationships with others or future relationships regarding trusting them.

This is going to affect your relationships with others. Hopefully in a positive way but that is up to you…

It seems like maybe she was cueing me to keep her in check by saying no, but I wanted her to be home with me, to be with me, not because she felt she had to.

If i would have not been so passive aggressive about the ordeal it probably would have been better. (at least it couldn't have hurt)

This story is not so much about what the W did, but how my role with sending mixed messages had played into our problems.

While this story may be an example of your mixed messages, it also puts the focus for your passive aggressive behavior squarely on your wife’s shoulders.

I can’t say that I agree with her actions, but I definitely don’t agree with yours either.

You attempted to mind read what she was thinking and feeling and expected her to know what you were thinking and feeling without honestly communicating that to her and then you became upset with her when she didn’t meet your expectations, when she had no clear idea of what they were.

Which is similar to what our MLCer’s do prior to the bomb, when they don’t tell us there is anything wrong in the M, however, suddenly they “tried” for months to years, and now there no chance at working it out…when the LBS had no idea the M was in trouble …

I would have bet that my LL was Acts of Service because I am a natural giver. It is not.

Truth is, it doesn’t matter why I give…

What matters is HOW I give and what I expect in return…

How I react if my expectations are not met, and how I react if they are…

How do you react?

Is it in a way that you can be proud of or is it with manipulation?

[tested metal]

i think mine is Physical touch but somehow I show love through acts of service. That sounds confusing but I truly feel loved when i get hugs, kisses, and I am a cuddler. I used to have to always ask for hugs from my mom as a child and I felt so loved getting them, so i am pretty sure that is my main language.

I think that I express love through Acts of service though. Probably because I learned that from my father. He would always work so hard to provide for us and we appreciated it.

As for my W, I can't really say what her language is. I think it is somewhere between quality time/ receiving gifts. She would complain a lot about not having enough time together, mainly due to us having to work two different shifts with no chance of changing it unless we switched professions.

As for the gifts, she always has to know what she is getting for birthday, Christmas, etc. and would pretty much complain if I did not bring home flowers every week. I did not bring home flowers because we could not afford it.

I used to make things for her when we first were dating, but I ran out of ideas and we both got busy with work and life. It's hard to keep coming up with that stuff.

Anyway that is about all I can come up with regarding the Love languages for now. It'd be nice if she took the assessment on the web site and gave me the results, but we all know that ain't gonna happen.

[cat04]

A classic example is when a person may get frustrated or upset with someone, but choose not to express it at all. Instead they decide it's best to stay silent,cold and distant.... for very long periods of time. The other person has no idea what's really going on, but knows the other is upset. When asked there is either no answer, rude comment, or it's brushed off.

Withholding affection or not reciprocating affection when you're angry with your partner is another. Once again the partner can tell something is wrong, but doesn't understand. Once again upon asked, it's an excuse of " nothing", when there really is.

Kim,

Maybe I misunderstood, but this classic example is exactly what TM did with his W that he is identifying as passive aggressive behavior...

While he could have established a healthy boundary within the situation, he didn't because he didn't honestly communicate his needs prior to establishing the "boundary", it wasn't really a boundary, but a tactless act of passive agressivness, similar to a kid throwing a temper tantrum in a store...

He wanted his W to just simply gleen what to do from the smoke signals that he was sending her way...

While he did not force her to make the choices that she made, he contributed to her NOT making the choices that would have made him happy by choosing NOT to communicate his desires to her...

Communication is a two way street...

None of us are mind readers, no matter how long we have known someone...

Communication needs to be ongoing throughout the duration of any R and sometimes, we have to ask for what we want and need in order to receive it, regardless of what our love language may be...

[tested metal]

I agree Cat. That's why I told the story. It was to show that I am aware of my own shortcomings and how MY role affected the relationship. I am not proud of how i handled that and I am working on correcting that in the present. I was not trying to blame my W for what went on, but how my passive aggressiveness was not a good thing and is not excusable. I was trying to show the consequences of my actions.

The story may have been a bad example, but this is the most glaring example I can remember doing this.

[Mach1]

I guess it makes sense that as a child I was made fun of and beat up on a regular basis. The friends I had were nice, but I got bullied a lot during my childhood. Even my father was an anxious person who yelled a lot. (I do get a little anxious myself, but I don't yell.) I think that probably has affected me more than I would like to admit.

I think this certainly set the table for a behavior pattern that you haven't recognized yet.

How did you finally avoid being beaten up regularly ?

It reminds me of the old school bully thing, where one gets threatened for their lunch money. After the first few times of getting a knot on the noggin, they just start giving the money over to avoid getting thumped. It became easier to do that, than to have the knot on the head or the black eye.

After a year or so, it becomes a joke, and eventually goes away. Right up to the point that the pattern has been set for behaviors the rest of someone's life.

That person is actually taking control of the situation by directly handing over the lunch money instead of opting for a beatdown ( and losing the money anyway). Albeit in a passive manner. They have "thought" through their problem in a way that eliminates any physical contact, or communication on a level that they are uncomfortable with.

As a child I decided to go with my strength which was intelligence. I would learn everything I could about nearly everything and I became known as the "smart kid" or nerd to others. To this day I still am known as the guy with all the answers. I feel accepted when people ask for my opinion or help with something.

Accepted ?

Loved ?

Or just not messed with ?

I feel helpless. I realize that there is nothing I can do for W or the marriage. I just have to work on me.

You do understand that the best chance you have IS working on you.....Right ?