25, I am just fine owning my part of this. I just don't know precisely what to DO about my parts. I am hoping that life presents me with more opportunities to practice my 180's on letting things go and releasing some of my OCD tendencies.
My parents will be coming for a stay starting this Saturday. Protective folks that they are, they are not "pleased" with W right now and I strongly get the message from them that I need to "just get this over with and move on". My mother has said on more than one occasion that there is something wrong with her and God is giving me an out - and I need to take it. We are on very different pages and I know that they want me to just throw in the towel. Reference: "protectors" in DR.
I believe him when he denies recalling that. He even said he'd "never say something like that."
I KNOW he said it. I can tell you where I was standing and what I was doing
That's funny 25, my W also denied saying that she wouldn't reconcile. I found that very odd because it had such a huge impact on me when she said it. Just another example of how people rewrite history to help them cope.
Crimson, all you can do about your parts is work on them. Whatever it was you did that aggrevated your W, stop doing it, because it will aggrevate someone new too.
WRT your parents, you obviously "get it" and will appreciate that they care for you and take their advice with a grain of salt. No one can understand this situation or your feelings who hasn't been in it.
Before I got cheated on, I assumed that people who get cheated on get angry and leave. I discovered that people who get cheated on actually assume the guilt, get exceedingly sad, and tend to pursue to get their spouse back. Ironic right? The commonly held beliefs and assumptions of your parents and your friends are often just plain wrong and they cannot relate to you and how you are feeling right now.
Accuray
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
This is probably more of a therapeutic post than anything else.
Was falling asleep and W texted me asking if she could leave a day early for Iowa with our baby. That would take away some of my time. My heart and stomach sunk, but I waited, checked the calendar and replied "No problem! You guys go and have a great time!". She responded "Christmas falls on my weekend but I will be flexible with your family in town". Now, it is commonly known that holidays fall out of the parameters of regular schedules so that's really no concession on her part, but whatever.
I'm sad about this trip, and I want to say "nope! Tough Shyte". But I know that would only foster more anger than anything else and fuel her mad dash away from me. I acted "as if". Man, than burned. He's not even gone and I miss him already. I'll miss not seeing her family.
do NOT assume her trip will be all fine and dandy. She will be asked questions and challenged.
They will bring up what a good dad you are and the financial implications and her other issues...
let that happen. This is an opportunity for YOU, believe it or not. Do some detachment. Let some memories resurface in her.
When you lose that parental voice you can have with her (to her at least) THEN she can hear her own inner voice.
But til that happens, your parental voice and challenges just shut out her own inner voice and at least part of her is screaming at her, "WTH are you doing leaving the father of son?? He's NOT THAT BAD and you could work on things and isn't SOME of this your own crap??"
But when You pursue her and "logically" explain, (to her that reads PURSUE/CONTROL)
you shut down that inner voice of hers. You help her suppress the good memories. Get out of your own way.
Be your best self. Be calm and detached, which means RELAXED...NOT reading into everything.
Letting some things "fall" by the wayside if they're not important or letting others choose. Sometimes their choices really will be as good, better or nearly as good as yours.
And the pay off for "not getting your way" will be far beyond your imagination now.
It may seem like I'm saying you should Lose some battles to win the war. In reality I'm saying "pick your battles to win the war."
Lose the scorecard for now. Seriously...she has a very different measuring barometer and I'm positive her scorecard is very different than yours.
No one "chooses" to be selfish or wrong; we all rationalize our behaviors.
So no one believes, knowingly, that they are being unreasonable. That's why labeling the behavior that way always backfires....always.
Try to empathize with her and to hear her, without correcting or commenting other than that you heard her/understood what she said.
I went to a workshop in Philly some years ago (yes there are communication courses but this was so much more than just that. But it will certainly "fix" your communication issues, and I mean that.)
Anyhow, there were exercises in it in which someone told us, either in small groups or one on one, a really serious thing about themselves. A problem or dilemma or bad event/situation in their life.
We were ONLY to listen...not comment, not "fix", or anything but Just show concern exclusively by listening.
When I had my turn to share a painful situation of mine I was Shocked and moved by how much their NOT commenting, but actively listening helped me feel supported (active listening meaning complete eye contact, no fidgeting or being distracted but appearing to really care about my words)....profound really.
hope this helps you with some ideas for 180s.
I don't know where you live but if you ever get a chance to attend a life changing personal workshop, it's called Essential Experience (see their website sometime) and no, it is Not a cult or weird "get naked" thing.
It's for individuals who are ripe for change or at crossroads, to gain clarity. That means dumping old baggage, letting go of pain, moving forward, etc. I have never seen it hurt a marriage but I have seen it save many, even though I don't think people went there with that idea specifically b/c it's not aimed at couples but us each as individual people. It is absolutely one big reason my h and I were receptive to change b/c it taught us both that we CAN change even long held beliefs and behaviors.
Thing is, when we each improve, so do our r's....
my h is NOT the type to go to something like that. He knew I went partly for issues re; my alcoholic dad, career issues, etc.
When I got off the plane to come home, my h noticed a difference in me when he saw me. There was an inner contentment I had searched for for so long. After a few days he told me that HE wanted to go too, to "Get that" and a few weeks later off he went.
I worried he might not like it or "get it'....after all, he was in the military and this is an unusual thing to do. He came back and thanked me for the "best gift" he'd ever gotten.
I am convinced neither of us would have been open to working on our marriage as much as we did, starting with ME, if not for the workshop that enabled us to avail ourselves of tools like DB. Make sense?
Just thought I'd pass that on since you want info on how to change.
I love therapy but once a week wasn't as helpful as a 3-4 day workshop b/c when I went weekly, sometimes I'd make a breakthrough but have to go back to work or to the kids. The next week, the momentum would usually be lost. So I LOVED Essential Experience. Got me to dig in, figure out the CORE issue and to resolve it. That changed the direction of my life, the way I communicate with others, and gave me clarity.
Best money I ever spent, (along with some DB coaching years later).
A workshop that is good, gets you an action plan of specific goals and ways to accomplish them. It's NOT "EST" or "Landmark", just so you know.
Well, enough said on that (nope I don't get a commission but I hate to think I sound like an Amway salesman or a religous kook recruiting...)...
good luck!!
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I'll tell you what, 25. I hope you are right about this trip possibly being beneficial for me in some regard. I am sure she'll be asked questions while with her parents (also divorced, BTW). However, and I don't mean this disrespectfully, her mom's head is so far in the clouds she needs FAA clearance to take a walk around the block. She has lived an "interesting" life with equally interesting consequences and I know she in not in my corner in repairing my marriage. In fact, I am sure she is pushing W to "take this journey".
I also hope you are right about memories resurfacing. At the moment, it seems as if she has none whatsoever. But as you said, she is most likely supressing them. Hopefully she can't hold them back forever.
"WTH are you doing leaving the father of son?? He's NOT THAT BAD and you could work on things and isn't SOME of this your own crap??" - do you really think that goes through her head? She has come across as so confident with her decision - almost like she is sprinting to D.
I hear you on the "just listen" front - loud and clear. It just seems that when she comes to me about anything right now it custody related in some regard and that is for sure in search of a solution. Sure, I can listen and empathize - but at the end, she wants some sort of plan.
I'm getting better at being calm with interactions. Of course, I usually have to wait a bit before I respond to anything and see if my reaction hurts or helps - and choose the one that "helps". I'm detaching, but as I mentioned it scares the hell out of me because in my view (myopic as it may be) it pushes her away. However, I trust the people that have been here before me better than I trust myself - so onward I march towards detachment.
Also, the only thing I think I have a scorecard on right now is time with my son. I have a VERY difficult time settling for less than half. Honestly, I think that is the only thing that we have right now that fosters tension and anger between us.
I looked up EE online - I which the workshops were mobile! I am way far away from Philly. I'll look into it, though.
It just seems that when she comes to me about anything right now it custody related in some regard and that is for sure in search of a solution. Sure, I can listen and empathize - but at the end, she wants some sort of plan.
Maybe you can let her suggest the plan and you can react to it versus driving the planning. If it's leading to argument, you could suggest you take it to e-mail where you can't interrupt each other and you can make sure each position is expressed fully.
You pointed out that her custody criteria are impossible to satisfy, have you told her what your custody criteria are? Tell her what YOU want and ask her to propose a plan that meets your needs.
Maybe putting that on her versus always doing the planning would be a 180?
Accuray
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
She did offer up a plan after I offered up mine. There were some things I objected to (respectfully, I might add). Specifically, her plan gave her the majority of the time, gave her every Friday and early Saturday morning, and had some logistic issues that would make me late to work 3 out 5 days of the week.
The initial plan I floated had some flaws in it that she didn't like. I corrected for them and still she objects. The last e-mail I sent her on the topic stated that we could try her plan for a week or two (that was a 180, IMHO) and asked her to point out specifically what are the things in my revised plan that she didn't like. I asked her if she could point out her objections it would at least give us a place to start from in finding something that works for the both of us. She never responded - so I still do not know what she is objecting to. I am partially inclided to believe that she is objecting based on the fact that I suggested it and she feels I "always have to have my way". This is a tough one, and I don't know hbow to get through it. I don't want to fight or argue, but at the same time I don't want to give up time with my son.
On LuvHurt's thread, Mach1 was suggesting that if you are headed for a court hearing on custody, you should start keeping a journal of the time you are spending with your kids and the activities you're doing. The courts like to maintain status quo and limit disruption, so if you have documentation of your "custody trend" that can't hurt.
It's painful to think in these terms and prepare for the worst, but sometimes it's the pragmatic thing to do.
Accuray
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
MB - I have made my peace with it for the most part. We just need to settle in on actual dates. He will be out of school that week and we both want some of that time to spend with him.
Wtiki - She pretty much drilled it. I am grateful for that, though. I do well with brutal honesty in situations where I am uncertain. This one qualifies as such.
Regarding detachment - it goes against every natural grain in my being right now, but I see WHY it is necessary. As it stands already, I feel as if she has forgotten about me completely right now and going dark/dim only makes it worse. Notwithstanding, I am moving in that direction on faith alone. To the credit of DR and every other vet on this board, pleading, begging, crying, all of that did nothing. She is basically a cold wind right now and I am hoping that it warms one of these days. In the meantime, it would appear I have some introspection and changing to do.
You know, I was probably one of those people that gave a lot of lip service to "I love my wife and family" - but never LIVED it like I should. Now that I am on the brink of losing it, I have become PROFOUNDLY aware of how much I love them and how much they are the wind in my sail. If I am ever given a second bite at the apple I will never take anything for granted again.
Crimsom
Crimson - that last paragraph you wrote moved me to tears. That literally is one of the most honest and best things I have ever seen anyone express
Crimson, I feel exactly the same way. Its true "You don't know what you got 'til its gone". I took my W for granted, and pray everyday that we can be a family again. I realize now how in love I am with my W. I may sound cheesy, but when I look at her all I see is the most beautiful woman in the world. 2 months ago when I looked at her, I used to see her flaws, but now its like when I first fell in love with her. I make sure I look her in her eyes the entire time she talks to me, sometimes I do get a little distracted and can't completely actively listen because I am truly blinded by her beuty. I also spend way more time playing with my S. My W always said I was a great father, but now I make sure I am even better. I love my family more than I ever knew and if I get a chance to be a family again I too will NEVER take them for granted.
