I think the diagnosis of 'bipolar' is often too stigmatising for people to accept. And also, often the manic phase that some people experience doesn't involve what most would think of as 'mania', so they think they don't fit the category.
However, if you look up 'cyclothymia' - a mood-disorder syndrome that is at the lower end of the BP spectrum, you'll see how the mood swings are often present in otherwise high-functioning individuals who are cyclically 'normal' as well as up (irritated) and down (depressed/hopeless).
And you'll also see that the cyclothymic person often feels 'stuck' in a situation, and so has to exit in order to try to relieve the anxiety/hopelessness they feel.
For my money, the symptoms of cyclothymia fit my H to a 'T.' Although unless the person themselves can see it, I agree with you, there's nothing you can do about it.
I'm still at the stage of wondering how to broach the topic with my H in a way that will allow him to listen. Any suggestions gratefully received.
Ya know, NLW I am in NO position whatsoever to give anyone any advice, but I will caution you in this regard - don't go too far down the rabbit hole of trying to diagnose your spouse. I became obsessed with understanding hormonal deficiencies (progesterone especially), premenstrual dysphoric disorder, thyroid conditions and how all of these things tied to depression and marriage. Do I think I was right about some of it? Yes, I am almost certain. Did it get me anywhere? Nope. In fact she was rather mad when she found out I set up am obgyn appointment (secretly) for her to look into some of these things.
I think the direct quote was "Doctor wants you to know I am fine. I don't know what it will take for you to accept this divorce isn't about me being imbalanced or unfaithful, but the sooner you do the better." Nice text to receive at work.
Just be careful. There is no magic trick to get a spouse to see they have a problem and "come back". If there is I have yet to find it. I eventually quit researching all of it and accepted the fact that if she is suffering from something she will have to figure it out on her own and relate it to the relationship. That is a hard thing for a person's pride to endure, but I seem to hope for that miracle a lot.
I hear you Crimson. That realisation is why I've been thinking this for so long and doing nothing about it.
However, in my situation, I do have the added factor that my H secretly stopped taking his anti-convulsant medication that is used, also, to combat bipolar and this happened just around the time he went weird.
But I know that he probably won't accept it as an explanation for what he is going through....
So I have said nothing via text, e-mail or phone to W since Friday afternoon. At night I get a text from her asking me to just send her a cell phone pic of the baby and to give her an update on how he is doing.
Sooooo, what to do?? Do I tell her about how he was the center of attention at the holiday party I hosted at the house Saturday (she knows nothing about)? Do I tell her about the awesome hike we took Sunday? I kinda want her to see that I am getting a life and doing some 180s as well as taking good care of our son. Since she lives away she has no way to witness herself.
Hi Crimson - I was reading your post in another person's thread about buying a bed for her because it hurt your heart to think that she was sleeping in a sleeping bag on the floor, and that got me thinking, so I skimmed through your sitch again and still didn't find what I was looking for. So I'm going to point it out and see if it gives food for thought on the introspection side of things. I agree that you're doing a terrific job on GAL and going dim, but am also not seeing much inward change.
There's the bed thing and also the comment that you viewed her safety and comfort as your job and/or no longer your job. I put myself in her shoes and found my oppositional side rearing up. She's a grown woman with a child. She can decide where to sleep without someone thinking she's so pathetic that she needs outside help. She can get a bed if she needs one, people do it all the time. Can't carry it? People get workers to carry things. Doesn't know where to buy a bed? People use internet, phone books, ask friends. Doesn't have money? People live within their means and feel pride and independence. It would drive me nuts to think I couldn't survive without someone filling in for my inadequacies. Now I admit I have a very strong independent streak, but maybe there's something there in that you seem to treat her like a child, and even take some measure of pride in seeing that as your job. This may or may not be what's going on, but I would suggest if you have future opportunities to impose your world-view on her (it's pathetic to sleep in a sleeping bag) try not doing it. If she's even inviting you to judge her (oh my back hurts from sleeping on the floor) try to stay neutral and just listen to what she is experiencing and what she thinks about it - don't impose your opinion and judgment - she's an adult and can figure things out herself, and should. You even could try, in your own head, to value the independence she's learning while she's on her own, learn to see her as more capable.
Have I blown that bed story entirely out of proportion? Possibly. But she's really angry about something, and that has you somewhat perplexed. Look for your role and don't assume so much that she's being unreasonable with her anger.
Another example, her #1 above is your nit-pickiness. Your response in a later post was that you could have tolerated imperfections better. So the imperfections are hers? How about you? Could you have stated that instead as "honey I'm a little ocd, and I realize that. The xyz in the house makes me feel uncomfortable so can we establish some things that you'll do or that I'll do, or both, so I can have a higher degree of comfort and you won't feel like I'm nitpicking? Because that's not what I intended." The difference is that her way no longer seems wrong and yours right, it's that you're communicating to understand your differences and needs, and negotiate a solution.
The reason to look harder inside is that this is an opportunity to learn some important things about yourself. Don't feel like it's blaming yourself, it's just a chance at a do-over that not everyone gets - take full advantage. Whether you reconcile with her or not.
Re your most recent question, I would try very hard not to tell her the 180s you're doing. They're about you and that will seem obvious, and will probably get you another nastygram about what she doesn't want to hear about. Tell her cute things he's doing or something funny he said, and let her wonder what you're up to. There's my 2cents.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
Thanks Advina - great, thoughtful response. I appreciate it.
As for the imperfections - I wasn't assigning them to anyone per se, it was more about the imperfections of a situation. I.E. - car is dirty, house needs cleaned, kitchen is a mess, and so on. I need to work a lot harder at accepting those things. I wasn't referring to imperfections in my W. However, I did have almost the exact conversation with her that you posted above. Basically said "I think I have low grade ocd and me cleaning up things is calming for me, and by no means a judgement on you at all." She seemed to understand at the time, but it came u when she dropped the bomb - so maybe not.
Re: the bed. Yeah, I probably made a bad call there. I wasn't trying to be paternal but probably came off that way for sure. I didn't expect anything from her at all. I really went back and forth on whether or not to do it. Part of me wanted to let her stay on the floor - since moving out was her choice. Maybe I should have done that instead.
Re: what to tell her. I simply said that the baby and I had a busy weekend and he was the center of attention with everyone - I think that was vague enough. I did tell her about the hike - just in one sentence, though - no details.
I probably need help in inward introspection - I am very open to establishing what my faults were/have been in this break down - I just have a hard time pinning all of them down and finding ways to "fix" them.
Quick note: W replied to response to her text with "Thank You :)" . Small, but pleasant. I am finding that things can stay positive if we focus on what/how the baby is doing. - we both miss him a lot when he is gone. "Experiment and do what works". I will NOT flood her with texts at all....in fact I won't initiate. But I will reply to hers....after a an hour or so and be upbeat and pleasant about the baby. Seems to get a good response. After being "dark" since friday she texted me at 10:30 last night. Maybe that's a small positive. I don't know.
yes, I find that only talking about S gets W and I to have more positive interactions. (when she's not constantly texting OW at the same time!) Focusing on the baby is most important anyway, and when you focus more on the little guy, it's less focus on W and also on R. I know for me, since the bomb, I've learned that my S4 is my number one priority --- and I make sure he stays in that position. I want all this mess to be as easy for him as possible, at least the part that's under my control.
Hang in there Crimson. Keep posting.
Put a signature on at the bottom when you can. It's so interesting and handy to briefly read up on everyone's specs!
Me (f): 45 W(f) 35 T: 13 y C: S4 adopted at birth 6-18-11 bomb: I want to break up 8-28-11 OW confirmed
Great that you came up with a good way to text her and got a good response! Keep it up!
I harped on the imperfection thing because it was so big with me and my H. I can do a million things right but he'll notice the one thing I didn't get to. I thought it was about me not being perfect enough or not prioritizing work the way he wanted me to, or something related to me, took it very personally, felt he was hypercritical and bossy, could see everyone's mess other than his own etc etc...and I was resentful and passive aggressive in return. I've learned that we didn't communicate well (surprise) and that he really is somewhat anxious and compulsive where I just thought he saw himself as perfect, no one else could live up to his standard. I feel soooo much better now when he grumbles about something because I'm hearing in his less-than-skillful communication that there's something I can do to provide some comfort to him, and that I am happy to do.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
"No one else could live up to his standard". Adinva, I don't think I can tell you how many times I've heard "I can't live up to your standards" from my W. I feel awful when she says that because I am not trying to impose any standards upon her. I think she observes me and believe I expect her to do what I do and that was never the case. Non-verbal communication problems.
Regarding the text, she followed up with "will you have family in town for Christmas". I didn't answer. A bit later she sent the same question to my work e-mail and said she wanted to get a holiday plan together "asap". I don't know why, but that makes me very anxious. Maybe it's my lack of patience and wanting to see more positive results sooner than later. Regardless, I am sticking to my plan to not over-communicate.
I felt good about the text exchange this morning - I also sent her the picture of our S and the dog and she responded "Love!". Another positive response - I guess that is good. Tryting to keep things mostly about the S. That is about all the communicating and sharing I think I'll do for awhile. I keep thinking that a magic moment will arrive and she will want to talk about us and the R - not gonna happen anytime soon.
Staying out of contact is hard - I know I've said this a million times and it has been expressed by others - but I am worried that in the absence of contact she will simply forget about me and grow farther apart.
