Putting it back together, but SSM issues linger

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Captain,

First of all, I again wanted to thank you for how much you helped me when I was at my lowest. It truly was the worst and hardest thing I've gone through and your advice and perspective was invaluable. Thanks again for taking the time to weigh in.

If she's not worth the therapist's time, does she think she's worth yours (and/or the the time you are spending to save a marriage in addition to just having a marriage)? She can be pretty sure that YOU think she's worth the time and effort. But does she think she's worth YOUR effort?

She has told me several times that she thinks I'm "unlucky" to have her. This seems to be a rollercoaster however, as othertimes she seems plenty self-confident. I have discerned a behavior pattern that when challenged, she tends to either get belligerent (trivial matters) or fold and break down (emotional matters). I do appreciate your point as when she says things like that, it does imply that my time is also not valuable. I think she would answer that she is NOT worth my time, because that's the easier answer and requires no expectations for her to live up to. I think you've assumed she would answer differently.

With regard to your comments about the impacts of an affair on job success and parenthood, yes, I see your point and obviously I felt that way at my angriest. She has changed jobs, and at her new job she's a top 5% performer in a professional capacity, and she always operates at the level in terms of results. I would be surprised if her co-workers at her last job knew what was going on. WRT being a mother, I was mainly talking about her interactions with the kids -- our parenting styles are very aligned (other than having affairs), and I appreciate how she works with me to raise our children.

My problem here is that I have a hard time reconciling her low self-esteem with her personal achievements.

But a good mother does not knowingly and intentionally shutout the children's father (you) from both sex (unless there is a specific and measurable medical condition that prevents sex) and communication (see below).

I would go even farther and say that a good person does not knowingly enter into a marriage when they have no sex drive without disclosing this fact to their intended spouse.

That said, we were both historically guilty of withholding communication, and now we are communicating quite well with one exception, which FOR ME is a big one. For her, it's not important. She also has historically provided "sex", although not love-making, and continues to do so. From her perspective, providing sex is an "act of giving" and should be appreciated as such. She feels I should appreciate what I'm being given versus complaining about what I'm not, although I'm sure you can appreciate my perspective on that.

I don't want to diminish the seriousness of this because its as if she has told you that she will commit suicide or sink the marriage if you talk about this or do something about this predicament.

I didn't read her ultimatum as that serious. She's effectively saying that she is an unhappy person, and has to work very hard to cope. She's saying that if I ask her to talk about having a more fulfilling sex life, and instruct me in how to please her, that she will be forever more unhappy than she is now, and can't explain why. She's willing to do it, but is basically pointing out what the consequence will be.

I COULD tell her to do it anyway and trust in the fact that she's being overly dramatic, or that the consequences won't be as severe as she is projecting, but would you want to take that bet? Right now I don't. In that context, I also can't imagine the experience would be very good for either of us.

Those are the words of someone trying to use your love and your love of the ideal of marriage as a hostage or to bully you in this relationship to avoid doing anything about a potential fatal blow to the marriage.

Adinva also perceives my W's behavior as aggressive / manipulative. I have wrestled with those thoughts. If that is the case, she's very good at it because to look at her, she seems to be operating from a real place of desperation and hurt. The jury is still out on this. I don't believe that she tries to "bully" me in any other area of our relationship, so I'm tempted to accept what she's telling me as being genuine.

But here is a mental exercise for you: what would happen if after this recent ultimatum you've been served you just stop having sex with her. No announcement that you are going to do that, no drama about it, just stop. No more advances or suggestions on your part. Isn't that what she wants? Isn't her ideal of sexual fulfillment being nonsexual with you? Wouldn't you be fulfilling her wishes, her dreams and her vision as herself?

I have tried that. The last time I did it we went well over a year and she didn't even notice, and still denies that it could have been that long. Now that I've shined such a spotlight on the desire gap she's conscious of it and if I go too long, she gets VERY nervous that something is wrong, gets very unhappy and starts to break down. It's not about the sex for her obviously, she doesn't want me to be unhappy with her for any reason. She doesn't want to have to live up to any expectations.

The "no sex / no sex talk" challenge feels very passive aggressive to me. It's not really what I want -- what would be the point? If it would be to punish her, I don't think it would yield the intended result.

With regard to "moving her out" -- I couldn't do that to my children. I don't believe she will fight for our marriage -- I think she's more likely to give up and resign herself to being alone (for now). She'll tell herself that she's gotten what she deserves and just cope with it. I just don't think she's up to the mental challenge of being the one responsible for keeping this going.

This weekend we had a long car ride and I asked her why she doesn't want to address her deep-seated unhappiness and feelings of unworthiness that DON'T have to do with me. She says it's because she's accepted them and learned how to cope. She says it's part of who she is, because those feelings have been there for as long as she can remember. She asked me to think of it like she has a limp that could be surgically corrected. Sure, she could walk normally if she went through surgery and physical therapy, but the pain of that *process* is not worth it to her, because having the limp is something she's accepted about herself.

She told me that the pain of the therapy process is not worth it to her, she'd rather continue to cope and she's accepted this about herself. She has asked me to accept it too.

The issue, of course, is that the limp would probably only impact her, but her unhappiness impacts everyone who cares about her. How can I ask her to do that "for me", however, given how she feels about it? I don't know that I can -- I think my decision is to cope with it as well, or walk away.

Captain, your situation is extreme -- what keeps you in a marriage that has been without physical intimacy for so long? Why does your W stay in the M?

I very much appreciate your mental exercise, I want to make sure I understand what you were looking for me to take from it. Do you think I've understood? If I've missed the point, please elaborate.

I do NOT feel good about resigning myself to 14 years of one-sided passion. I am wrestling with the following:

1) Is she just fundamentally not physically attracted to me? If not, it would seem that it's not fixable. How can I determine this without needy questions? This has been a nagging doubt for me forever. Did she marry me because I was "safe" versus someone she felt passionate about?

2) Am I sabotaging myself by being the more expressive partner? When I tone down the expressiveness, she starts to panic and believes I am withdrawing, but when I am expressive and affectionate, she doesn't really reciprocate. When she thinks I'm withdrawing, she does make some efforts to tell me she loves me, etc. Should I just let her panic and be more aloof? This feels like playing games to me and not being true to who I am.

3) Our relationship is doing much better overall. Is there a chance that this works itself out? Should I be patient and revisit in 6 months when we've had more time to heal? I acknowledge that I like to have things fixed right away. I try to optimize. Will time heal all wounds?

Thanks Captain,

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