Putting it back together, but SSM issues linger

[TeaEarlGreyHot]

I've dropped in from time to time since mid-October to keep up. I've been pretty busy and just haven't taken the time to write.

Anyway....

She told me she's not worth the therapist's time.

That should tell you tons right there. So here is an interesting question for you (and her): If she's not worth the therapist's time, does she think she's worth yours (and/or the the time you are spending to save a marriage in addition to just having a marriage)? She can be pretty sure that YOU think she's worth the time and effort. But does she think she's worth YOUR effort?

If she answers "yes," then the next question is why, in the context of not being worth the therapist's time, is she worth yours?

And if you get a "yes" answer, the reason(s) has(have) to be something other than generalizations. If she all she gives you are reasons that could be applied to any other man or woman that she happened to share a household with, then she's just giving you an answer to stop the discussion (which sounds like what she has threatened you with).

That drives me crazy because she's so successful at her job, she's a great mother, and she has so much good going on.

I wish to dissuade you from this way of thinking because, quite simply, it is BS (to be very blunt). I know you love her and don't wish to speak badly of her. Successful people, men or women, DO NOT HAVE AFFAIRS WITH COWORKERS. Any supervisor conducting a performance review and evaluating the interactions and disruptions associated with an employee's behavior that overlooks an interoffice affair is doing your wife (and her coworkers) a huge disservice.

As for being a "good mother"...maybe if she were a single mother and you and everyone else was out of the scene and she was doing it all alone. But a good mother does not knowingly and intentionally shutout the children's father (you) from both sex (unless there is a specific and measurable medical condition that prevents sex) and communication (see below). She has willfully and knowingly been doing both. She may not have started out that way but once pointed out, it becomes a choice she is making.

There is no way I would have an A, just won't happen. Having been on the other side of it, I *know* how damaging it is.

A POV and an experience that you and I share. If you care about your marriage and you've been through the receiving end of the other person having an affair, you know the damage it causes for you. You'll presume this will be experienced in a similar way on the other end. There is no guarantee, of course, and she may "want" you to have an affair to end the marriage for cause.

She told me she WILL communicate with me if I want, but that she will be permanently diminished as a result, and I don't want to be responsible for that. She's letting me know in advance that she will resent me for it. I started going into reassurance mode this morning, so I'm going to pave it over.

I don't think the ultimatum is the way to go -- I've already put my feelings on the line and have gotten my answer.

You are the one that got an ultimatum that says, essentially..."don't communicate with me or require me to communicate with you or else I will be 'permanently diminished' (whatever that means) and I will resent you for that." And that's somehow your responsibility? I don't want to diminish the seriousness of this because its as if she has told you that she will commit suicide or sink the marriage if you talk about this or do something about this predicament.

Those are the words of someone trying to use your love and your love of the ideal of marriage as a hostage or to bully you in this relationship to avoid doing anything about a potential fatal blow to the marriage.

I know you don't wish to consider this and when you do, in passing, your view is that you are the one that has to walk away.

But here is a mental exercise for you: what would happen if after this recent ultimatum you've been served you just stop having sex with her. No announcement that you are going to do that, no drama about it, just stop. No more advances or suggestions on your part. Isn't that what she wants? Isn't her ideal of sexual fulfillment being nonsexual with you? Wouldn't you be fulfilling her wishes, her dreams and her vision as herself?

It would be up to you to choose what to do if she made the advance (and also up to you to choose to point out that, according to her, it is simply because its something that she agreed to do. Do you release her from that?).

And while you are at it, what if you stop talking to her about your lack of sex life. I know (and share) your idea of sex versus making love. Same thing, no announcement, no drama, just stop. And if asked, you could tell her that you are just giving her what she wanted and warned you about (about her permanent, as opposed to temporary diminishment and resentment).

How would that be any different than what you are facing once again? That's part one of the exercise.

Now here is the other part of the exercise. What if, say during the holidays, you told her that she has one month to find a new place to live and that you are willing to help her do that. And that if she didn't, she'd come home at the end of that time and find her stuff sitting on the curb? No tying it to any specific outcome. She was the one who had affairs, she was the one whom, upon discovery wanted a divorce. She is the one who wants things to remain the way they were before her affairs were discovered.

I know this is tough to think through, I've been through that once before with an ultimatum. And although I was willing to do almost anything to save the marriage, I ulimately moved her out. But it was not something I did without having done a great deal of thinking about and through before it finally happened.

Do you think that she'd be any less "permanently diminished" or resentful if the alternative you put in front of her was to seek other lving arrangements?

Its not walking away...its putting her out, particularly since you feel you've got your answer.

I'm not suggesting you do this, just think through the scenario.

The alternative, if she is ultimately unwilling to be sexual with you (which is what she has told you. She is *doing sex* for you, not because she feels she wants it to be part of the relationship or needs it to be part of the relationship.

You are now at the age I was when my current wife called the end to sex. More than 14 years later we aren't at each others throats and there is a level of comfort and predictability that I have with this woman sharing my house. Although there is caring, this is not the passionate marriage that I sought. And although in recent discussions she has indicated that she never really intended to have this marriage become nonsexual, she can offer no explanation why, if she thought that for more than 14 years and thinks that today, she has never attempted or made any advance in being sexual.

I don't know if I could actually have another marriage where it felt continually passionate. I know how a passionate marriage feels (at least on my end) and there is some evidence that there are people and marriages that meet or exceed that ideal. I was 43 the last time we were sexual together. At age 58 I miss the closeness that can develop through sex transcending to lovemaking.

That is what you face if you stick with it and she's not willing or able to be in the marriage with you.

More later

The Captain

I'm not suggesting you do this beyond a thought exercise.