"Sharks and fish can be friends" from Finding Nemo

[BeingMe]

For me, I think I'm done with the romantic life. Not that I ever had one in my M ... H wasn't the romantic type. Oh well. DB'ing has taught me that I can alone quite happily. I don't need a man's touch anymore. The thought of someone else touching me in an intimate way, leaves me heaving. I wouldn't mind a good massage though.

This love thing is a pain in the neck. I also still love my H, but I am glad that I am detached now. I know how you feel, Punkin, at least, at that level of loving someone who probably couldn't give a fig if you existed or not.

I do not dream of him, or wake up thinking of him. I know I'm going to be waking up tomorrow morning, dreading the exam that I'm writing tomorrow. Yet, here I am 1.27am in the morning, and I cannot get tired. Nerves/stress, I guess.

Take care, y'all.

[AntoniaB]

Punkin to clarify I don't think of your FWB as casual sex---what I meant by casual sex was meeting some dude you barely know and having sex and that being the end of it. It's just dangerous, really, as far as std's, whether or not he's an ax murderer, etc. I've had a fair number of former students who became friends who have done this sort of thing. They tend to say "if guys can do it, so can I" and inevitably they feel ashamed later (or have an STD sticking around).

I think the FWB with a long-time actual FRIEND with whom you have a relationship on some level is a whole different ballgame and one I'd probably explore if I had a guy friend who was single and willing :-)

[punkin]

No offense taken.

BeingMe, not to sound like a romantic movie, but sometimes it doesn't matter if YOU are through with romance, but if IT is through with you. I think that's one of the wonders of being human; being hit by love when you least expect it.

I am sincere in my own feeling of Stick A Fork In Me, I'm Done; but would still welcome the overwhelming feeling of loving and being loved by someone. That just could not/would not include the estate of marriage.

All of us, especially women I believe, are somehow hardwired so that marriage makes us completely and utterly vulnerable. 'Let the man lead' sort of thing. We emotionallly invest in a way many men simply do not or can't. And we suffer for it.

Now, I have bounced back fairly well. I'm not flying off to Rome for the weekend, but I wasn't doing that before. But, the Wall to my heart and soul is firmly sealed up. Not a crack in her. Any R I have at this point does not and could not include my heart and soul.

[PEI]

OMG ... I can't believe I miss a party ... and it was STARTED by WS!?!?!?! (note to self, remember to watch threads!!!)

It's almost noon here now, so I'm pretending to grab a cocktail ...

... going to jump in after lunch ...

[PEI]

Hey guys and gals ...

So, absolutely a fair question ... and one I don’t mind answering honestly.

Truthfully .... no. These feelings started long before I met my BF (or the guy I dated briefly before I met my BF for that matter).

Let me expand on my musings...

I loved my husband very much. All I knew ... by example and by practise though, was co-dependance. I am an ACOA (adult child of an alcoholic). We met as 20 year olds and instantly enjoyed each others company, we were friends who had a great sexual chemistry. We never had the WOW, romantic, head-over-heels-in-love experience. My stbxH needed someone to manage his life - he was conflict avoidant and directionless .... me? Well I needed someone to manage ... we were perfectly matched in our dysfunction. It worked well (for me) for a long time ... and honestly that’s mainly to his credit (for the short-term results). I was happy, content and loved my life. My stbxH was happy for a while too. Quite happy and for quite a while. But not managing his own life took a toll on his male ego - unbeknownst to him for quite a while. He was litterally unable to voice an opinion that was in disagreement (and no, I wouldn’t have made it easy ... I am after all a recovering control freak!) with someone ... and when he tried he lacked the ability to stand firm and get past the conflict without backing down. In his mind he had valid reasons for being that way (also an ACOA but a much different upbringing - verbally abusive, scary etc) and I was just bossy. LOL. It wore on him ... but he was a very committed person, raised catholic with old fashioned values and he made a conscious choice to stay and make it work. He didn’t share any of this with me. And it continued to eat away at him.

Anyway ... after my initial blind-siding and then my subsequent blind-siding when I discovered OW ... I resisted healing. I sought attention, affection and validation and I found it. I claimed to be over him but knew deep down that if he had knocked on that door ... I would have opened it. At that point, I’m not sure if I wanted him back because I truly loved him and believed we should be together ... or if it was because my self esteem was still in the toilet and I wanted to undo the rejection. I continued to see my IC, continued to post, talked to some of you off board .... and then I got dumped again. And THEN I really started to look ... albeit hesitantly (ok, ok ... I went into the mirror kicking and screaming sometimes!) at myself ...

Who the hell was I anyway? I had already dug out my why’s ... I was very aware of WHAT led me to be the woman I had become. Low self esteem, promiscuous background, control freak etc .... what I didn’t know was who was I now. What did I want for me? What mattered to me? What were my boundaries? Besides being mom, stbxW, daughter, sister .... who was I? What parts of the old PEI were valid and real parts of my personality that I needed to embrace ... what parts of the new PEI were created out of fear and shame and needed to be shed? What hybrid version of me was going to step forward and claim my life?

I’m still a work in progress - ever changing and evolving. I do know what matters to me now ... and I also know what to let go of. I work hard to remember to let go of the uncontrollables and live for today (with help and reminders from good friends sometimes!). I value the people in my life and the relationships I have with them. I’m an amazing mom and a great friend. I love to socialize and need people (in TAMF’s words I too am a SCREAMING extrovert). I have also learned to self sooth and enjoy my alone time, although it’s much more difficult. I like to plan, and know what’s coming. But I’m learning to be spontanious and enjoy the unexpected sometimes. I like risk ... if it’s calculated. I hate heights - so now I want to try an ariel obstable course next spring. The new me challenges myself to be more, be stronger, be honest, be real. I own my mistakes and try to learn from them. I hate the status quo. The phrase “because we’ve always done it that way” makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up. I’m impatient. I hold grudges (but not for long anymore!). I’m no Martha Stewart! I’d rather have a beer and pizza with friends then run on a treadmill or lift weights. I hate winter (and I live in Canada ... duh!) but I love fall. I love with everything I have and I that leaves me vulnerable. And I wouldn’t change it for the world. I truly believe in love and romance. I’m competative and passionate.

So what does this have to do with the question at hand I’m sure some of you are wondering ...

Well, stbxH and I really aren’t all that compatable ... we have different dreams, goals and desires. We communicate differently, love differently, fight differently. We have different definitions of parenting, family, love and committment. And we always did. We just didn’t know it. We only talked about that stuff on the surface ... thought we were on the same page, but now I’ve discovered we were reading out of different books. So all of this begs the question “could we have made it work?” and the answer is “Absolutely.” It would have taken work and many compromises along the way but we could have been content and we wouldn’t have known the difference. But that’s not the hand I was dealt. We do know differently now, or at least I do, and I won’t settle for less. I know what I have to offer as a partner and I know what I want in a partner. Alone is better than settling any day. Took me a long time to believe that, but I do now.
That was where I got before I met my BF.

I don’t miss my stbxH ... and yes, I will admit that is probably partly related to the existence of the BF and new love ... however, even if I was alone, it would be male presence I would miss not my ex specifically.

Jeepers ... some things never change ... I’m still longwinded!

Peace
PEI

[AntoniaB]

Hey I was glad you wrote all that. There is a fair amount in there that really is similar to my sitch as far as the reason XH and I were married and the reason that logically, even if OW wasn't around and even if he didn't go into MLC, we needed to either do major repair, and major compromise, or break up. We were also ridiculously co-dependent, both children of alcoholic parents, and on his end, that manifested in abuse and physical threats and verbal punishment, turning him into a pleaser who never advocated for himself, and on my end, my dad was sort of a happy drunk, so my mom made excuses for him and just said "we can't divorce, he's a good provider and at least he's not violent, now go make us proud." In my family the alcoholism bred high achieving kids, perfectionists...and people who became control freaks.

So take the victim of physical abuse and ridicule and lack of parental support and love who is a people pleaser and mix that with a girl who is raised by a mom who takes care of everything in her power and raises 4 kids who show NO outward sign of the strife in their marriage, and you have a potent codependent cocktail.

Like you PEI I think we could have fixed things...but that wasn't what happened, and in the end, I do wonder a lot if it would be better to be in a relationship that wasn't going to require such a serious level of work and adaptation to "flow."

So Punkin what do you think of all this? Do you think that you and XH were codependent at all?

[punkin]

Co-dependent? Only in a very skin-deep way. He had a huge ego to support, and I did a fair job supporting it for a very long time. He came from an Air Force Career family, moving around a lot. Mine was working class, who grew up and raised a family in the town they had grown up in . His father is bipolar. Mine was boringly normal, other than being brought up alone as the baby of 4 to later-in-life parents.

As I have grown older, I have felt that we (XH & I) should be able to speak frankly about anything. Than meant admitting my feelings of distaste for some things/places/people, as I had acknowledged and listened and attended to his for 20 years. Apparently, I was less than worshipful.

[BeingMe]

I just think that at 54, it is unlikely that I'm going to find romance. If I was younger, maybe. Also, I'm a bit of a loner since I moved to the island, and people here aren't very welcoming, unfortunately. Our previous city, is where I have lots of friends and even family, so maybe if I move back there. Eh! No, muh heart is shut tight. If anybody gets through to it, they will have to be something very special ... patient and gentle ... that I don't realize it's happening. Anyway, I'm studying so I can have a new career, and I am concentrating on that, very hard.

I have also listened to my H for 25+ years about his job, his plans, our children, and so forth, but when there is something that I am very interested in, it's like it's not too important. Whatever! My parents were also normal (whatever that means in today's world), blue collar working class people. They stayed married, while H's parents D'ed, and his father was the bank manager type. "Speaking frankly" in H's world is "being confrontational."

I wouldn't mind a FWB though.

[BeingMe]

I wouldn't mind a FWB though.

.... but I don't have any long friendships where I won't feel awkward. ~Sigh~

[AntoniaB]

I get that, BeingMe, on the FWB...I had a friend who engaged in a bit of "sexting" with me one night when we had each had too much to drink and were both at home (he lives about an hour away) and ever since then we have like, zero relationship. It isn't that we were close, we had just reconnected (and he's a former student who had had a crush on me). We had talked about the whole FWB "in general" and how for those who are very long-term singles because they just can't seem to find anyone this was some sort of option. But after the raunchy texts, we really don't interact anymore. Too awkward in the light of day.

I'm 42 and honestly I think that the chances of romance are very slim for me, and I've got a friend who is 30 and she believes 100% that she will never find someone to marry or even really have something long-term with.

This is where my own feelings about XH come back, as I then convince myself that he's the ONLY option so maybe I should just wait him out, but I know very well I could be waiting forever, and yet, isn't that what I'm doing anyway, ha ha.

With every passing day, I grow more resolved that I need to just 100% embrace not having any man ever again and learn to love every minute of it.