Living with groundlessness

[AJM]

I just agree with AJM. It's really not us, is it?

I guess what's so ironic is that one of the biggest things we were loved for, are now what makes them run?

And to be completely frank, I see that I feel the same way about stbx too. I really liked his quiet and sweet side. But it turned into stone cold silence. I know to him he loved my extroverted personality, and direct approaches to life. But then again what used to be fun about it turned into a buzkill because it turned into always bringing up responsibilities and things being too serious for him.

See, ME TOO. If being the "go to" person works exceedingly well with everyone else in my life (and there are different levels of being the go to person, of course) and this is what other people expect or like me to be like and I'm "good" at it, but my ex now despises it after 23 years of seeming to WANT me to be that way (because of course it absolved him of so many responsibilities), then how do I know whether I'm supposed to "change" this about me or not?

Right. Why was it ok one moment and not the next? <shrugs> Who knows?

Here's the only clue I have to this: the people in my life who have always been closest to me have said that I was a control freak when I was with XH and I was very intolerant and pushy and cynical. Those same people say I am not like that at all anymore, and if I am, I catch it and stop it asap, and that I am the best person I've ever been now that we are divorced.

That says a lot to me Antonia. It says to me that issues have been going on for a long time even if he didn't express them. My friends told me similar afterwards. I used to view this as I was different (like a chameleon in some ways) depending on my surroundings. To some degree this is true. I still am. It's who I am. But in other ways, it was an early sign that things weren't right. They weren't. I look back and see that things weren't right and even at the time I knew something wasn't "right". I didn't know what. Things were hidden from me (either her lying or not knowing, or by me putting it out of my mind and thinking it wasn't anything "big"). I told myself every couple has issues, but these are not dire issues; we're working through them. We were, but then one day "we" weren't. Does that mean I should change things about me? I have, but not because of her. I changed the things I didn't like about me(there were a few but not many - I like me and I have no regrets). I changed more based on what I now knew when I had the information available. I do that. I evaluate and change based on information available. I never have had any problems changing when I see a need.

Jack asks a good question. Forget for a second how you see you. How does the world see you? How does your ex see you (not really valid since it's screwy in many cases - they want you to be the bad person so that they aren't. Human nature I think)

Can you imagine for a second that you weren't the "take charge" kind of person but instead relied on somebody else to "tell" you what to do? One day you wake up and think, "Have I grown up?" Or like a child, "I can do it myself!!" Even if you could have all along, you feel like you are being "controlled". Amplify that with everything else that's going on in your head (guilt, anger, hormones, stress, etc) and you hit the boiling point. What once was ok, is not totally wrong.

For a MLC'r, everything is wrong though (or in crisis). Read back through the archives and see some of the posts about how the changes are so black and white. What once was white is black and what once was black is white. The world has gone mad! And they blow everything out of proportion to the nth degree. Like little children

What's more important is the question Jack asked. How are you viewed by others (really) and are you satisfied with that? That's really all that's important overall. If you are not satisfied with you, then you change you. That's all you control anyway. If you are satisfied, then you have evaluated and you leave it. How your ex views that is up to them. You don't control that (sic).

But in the end, the only people that my GALing matters to are ME, of course, and the people who are actively in my life, and he's just not one of them, so I'm not losing any more sleep over him.

Exactly. I'm the same way. I change for me. I change when I need to for my kids. I changed in the past for my wife, but I didn't like those changes very much and have since changed many back. Those were recent changes and not the long term changes - see above for why I did that. I was trying to adapt and save my marriage for longer than I thought - at least that was how I viewed it. I can see that it may not have been viewed that way. Wouldn't change what I did though and I never was controlling or even viewed that way to my knowledge except for the last few months of my marriage.

AJ

[Jack_Three_Beans]

Kimz,

And anyone else, : )

I am not calling you controlling or a controller. Honest.
(sad that I actually have to say: honest )

I bring up questions, because to me? That is the best way to offer advice in many cases.

Advice, is more like direction. Go here, do this, click this button.

Questions?

The ones that make you think? Those I like, because if you start to think...then anything you come up with, is all yours. And you're more likely to make changes based upon your own conclusions or experience.

One other thing...

Questions or comments that sting around this place; they sometimes are designed to, but with purpose.

Here is an example.
Please note: I do not want an answer to the hypothetical question below:

"Are you fat?"

If your not fat; or less likely but infinately cooler, you are but are awesomely comfortable with your own self image.

That question is NOT going to bother you. It will not sting and you'll pass it over without a care in the world.

If you are fat, and it bothers you?

That simple question is going to upset you, and...you'll be uspet with the person asking it.



The questions that end up stinging?
Find the reason they sting. Fix the reasons they sting.
In the above question. To fix it? Lose weight, or get comfortable with your self.

As for the questions/ comments that make you think, without any sting...the answers you come up with? You own. : )

[AntoniaB]

AJ you're right on the whole "things being off for awhile but not really acknowledging that." In my case XH and I had such awesome "chemistry" as well as likes/dislikes about free time activities/politics/religion/pop culture, all that stuff that people around us fought about, that we ignored any potential problems. I think at the core, we each were deeply insecure, for different reasons, with ourselves, we saw the partner as the one who "completed" us or was responsible for all our happiness, and we lacked real adult identities. It's so ironic, he and I really had exactly the same problems in so many ways...and yet because he found OW to transfer affections to, he's still never spent one night of his adult life knowing that someone else isn't "in love" with him, and he seriously derives all his self-esteem from that, from "being desired." I used to but aim to get all the self-esteem from within...still working on that!

Jack you raise a REALLY good point on the whole "does it sting" issue.

Honestly the thing that stuck out to me was the part about how we think we aren't controlling but we also don't like someone else to be in charge. THAT stung to me, but I will say it's changing for me.

Starting about 10 years ago, one of my work difficulties was my old boss who was a total control freak. Her controlling ways (and my own insecurity because I didn't have a Phd and she did) made me lose sleep, worry, and have lots of job anxiety that I complained about A LOT. The bad effect of this was that XH bore the brunt of my complaining. The good side is that wanting to prove myself to her made me do all this professional development and get myself published in a field that she scoffed at. NOW she respects me AND my field.

I and my colleagues grew tired of her control, and we voted in a new chair. I've been offered the position and I never take it. I did it for a year and hated "all that power."

Anyway now that she and I are closer, which we are because I don't feel insecure around her because of my own accomplishments, I have grown to learn that she is NOT over the death of her husband 10 years ago (sudden heart attack), even thoguh she is remarried, and she really thrives best when she has the chair's job to focus on. And bottom line, she's a better chair than anyone I've worked with before...just has "her way or the highway" on a few things, and we all resisted that after awhile.

Well to MY credit, now that I see that she is happier in this job than not, and that the department itself is BETTER OFF with her running things, I intend to nominate her for the position again and get her back in doing this job. I never wanted to run things at work, but I worked behind the scenes to put someone in power who would not police me EVER, and that in itself is a way I was being controlling.

My goal is that if she gets her position back, to "let her be", and when she is controlling about this idea or the other, let it ride and not get up in arms emotionally about it and not take it personally.

The "me" that existed prior to the divorce would NEVER have been this understanding of someone else's motivations and would never have admitted that removing her "from power" was my own backdoor way of being controlling myself :-)

[AntoniaB]

And understandably it sounds like in me trying to get her back her old position I am STILL being controlling...but my reason to help her get her position back is now "what is best for the department and the students", not "what is best for me." BIG difference :-)

[AJM]

What is truly the difference between passion for something and controlling behavior? Just for my benefit?

Those who can, do. Those who can't....wait, that's not appropriate here

We all learn things at different speeds, Antonia.

AJ

[Jack_Three_Beans]

Time to be a mod, can you make a new thread please?

[AntoniaB]

Done! You can lock this thread.