Separated But Living Under the Same Roof

[workinghardguy]

I've been living the same life for a while James... my advice would be to let her drive the car for now, but you need to pull waaay back. Why were you shopping for presents together? That's an awfully emotionally charged shopping trip, just dripping with poignant moments and guilt triggers.

I understand the need to get it done. My W and I had about a 30 minute convo on what to get the kids while looking at their lists. She took specific items and I took specific items. We did not shop together. We created a shared spreadsheet in a Dropbox account where we could each update when something was purchased and how much we spent. We also agreed on what "to get each other", though really she bought something for herself (well, I picked it up since we got the kids the same thing and I was already at the store) and I bought something for myself. It avoided me picking out a gift for her which would've smothered her and really would've been very heartbreaking for me since I've always put a ton of thought into her gifts and it's one of my favorite things to do.

It's not about just not being in the same room, but about the looks, the comments, and "the feeling." You have to detach and get used to the idea of being divorced and not in an R/M. Once she feels that coming from you she'll feel better. My W finally said she feels better in the house because she feels I am accepting the D concept and making peace with it.

You can always move out, but that's fraught with all sorts of potential problems, both emotional and legal. If she is that uncomfortable she can leave. If she hasn't left then she must be able to deal with it despite what she is saying. I see her words as a tool to get you to do the leaving, since her actions are something else.

[JamesG]

Thanks, WHG. I needed that reminder to pull back. Boy, that's tough to do. In reflecting on my conduct, I have found myself to be too eager; I am not following her around but I am a little too quick to leave my seat when she wants something.

The shopping trip was something we agreed to do because my W finds peace in handling things ahead of time. Admittedly, I wanted to shop together because I thought it would be fun and a way to be together; in reality, it was the exact opposite.

You are right, I do have to do a better job of detaching from the idea of being in a R/M. I am behaving as if I am hoping against hope. Any tips on the best was to detach from someone when you are living under the same roof as her?

All this reminds me that I have got to stop worrying about my W's well-being. Sandi2 made this very clear to me. (Thanks, again, Sandi2.) The whole time we were shopping I wanted to ask her (but did not), "What's wrong," "Why are you so distant," "What can I do to make you feel better," etc. I realize now that me offering to S outside of the house is another way that I am trying to take care of her needs. I agree with you fully that her words are an effort to try to get me to leave. (She has said that she will not leave because she will not leave the children and does not want to move them from the marital home at this point. She has mentioned looking at other accomodations but has said that she does not have the money at this point.) I want to give her space but I do not want to that at the expense of seeing my kids.

[JamesG]

Looking for feedback/input:

I am on an emotional roller-coaster ride. Working hard to GAL and feel like I am making breakthroughs on what I want out of life now that my eyes are open but, every time I start to feel good and confident and detached and accept that the M is over and a D is inevitable, the strong hurt that my W is rejecting me and our M (and may be interested in someone else--I do not know if there is an EA) jumps into my head.

W and I talked last night and W said that our M has changed for the better in that we no longer argue and I am listening to her. (I credited the impact of the S for that.) We got on the topic of how her idea of our marriage being "bad" was based on how I was acting, not how I am acting. She acknowledged my changes but also continues to say that they are for me and the kids. When we talk she never discusses our M or her feelings for me she only talks about working together for the kids' interests. I feel like she is biding her time until she files for D. I realize that she is a WAW but when we talk about how things are now I see possibilities for us. She has never been married to the man I am today but she does not seem to have any interest in giving the "new man" a chance and that is frustrating and discouraging and hurtful. I have a feeling that she has no intention of doing anything other than filing for D and moving on with her life/pursuing another R. I may have done some back sliding last night. Not sure.

[JamesG]

What do I make of this: W sent me several e-mail today. In one she quoted from an article about the impact of being positive with children when raising them (not D related) and then shared a few touching stories from her childhood about instances of positivity she remembers. She also wrote that she was proud of the efforts that I was making to change (but did not mention the M/R). She can be so distant and then something nice. I'm probably reading into this. I want to interpret it as a good sign. It was probably no more than a kindness. Thoughts from anyone who has been through this?

[JamesG]

Here's an update: W spent the night at a family member's house last night. Came home in a good mood and wanted the family to go eat and do some shopping. Went and had a good time. (She was fully engaged unlike last week.) I have a work opportunity this week that W has been pushing for for years. As part of GAL I set up the opportunity and have been prepping for the meeting at a level that is much higher than in the past. W says she has noticed. (W said the previous night before leaving that I looked happy and seemed to be regaining the confidence I had when we first met.) W asked me a lot of questions about the meeting during lunch. W also says she noticed I look skinny. (Weight has never been an issue so I am not sure if she was concerned; I said thanks.) I was feeling good about things--even thinking about asking her about the home renovation and sleeping in the same bed (did neither); then wife mentions a book about how to raise kids following a D that her C gave her; W says she thought the book was good and wanted to share some ideas with me. (W also thanked me for handling the kids so she could take a night off which she said she needed given our situation.) I was disappointed (said nothing) because I felt as if W had been noticing my efforts and that the impact of her noticing would be that she would be drawn back to me/open to considering giving our M another try.

She has not mentioned D since telling me she wanted it a week ago. (In that time, the work opportunity arose and she was happy about it, so maybe she is waiting to see how it would play out--for any number of reasons.) Our phone conversations about the kids have tended to be a little longer too; I may be overinterpreting that as a positive sign.

I started reading DR. Chapter 2/Beginner's Mind/Stages of M is my W and me. I want to share this information with her somehow but I am not sure she is ready or even how it could be done. Being patient is very tough.

I welcome any feedback any of the posters here have to offer. Thanks.

[JamesG]

Update: W asked me if I would consider S where we would not live under the same roof. She said the current situation is not productive (she did not define). W proposed a visitation schedule with the kids that included minimal contact with the kids. I told her that I wanted something with more contact and she told me she was open to suggestions. The strange part was during the conversation she asked me if I had hired a L. I said no (because I have not). She seemed "at peace" with me saying that. I felt myself backslide in the conversation because we got to taking about some of our negative past and I acknowledged that I had not conducted myself correctly. I told her I knew that now and told her she has never been married to the man I have become (pursuing, I know. I just could not help myself). She seemed to acknowledge that I had changed but she does not seem to know what to do with it or want to do anything with it. I sense she resents me making the changes now after so many years of nagging. I sense that she may have some interest in OM. I sense that she had planned a post-D life in her mind that is better than the M but that she is realizing now that such a life will be harder than she thought and that she will have to share the kids more than she thought.

Second backslide from last night: she said that we need to remember to put the kids first always. I said that putting the kids first means working on the M/R because D is the death of the family. I said that D was about the parent and not the kids. I said that D makes it harder for kids emotionally and financially. Maybe that was a mistake but I don't think it's something she has ever considered seriously because her escape fantasy is so strong. It seemed to make an impact on her.

I welcome any thoughts or comments from anyone on the board or anyone who has gone through the same situation? I would especially like to know what members think about the idea of defining the terms of a S or asking my W what the goal of an S is. Thanks.

[JamesG]

Friends, I need some advice: W filed for D two days ago. She didn't tell me (even though she said she would before filing). Yesterday, again without telling me, she withdrew the filing--the paperwork does not contain a reason. (Friend of a friend in the courthouse told me about both.) W's L never served me with papers. W has not mentioned anything at all about this. Have not said a word about this to W. Do not know what is going on or how to handle. W was cold last night and cool today. Could be that wife is waiting to see if my job improves--I have a big interview coming up. I want to ask her about it but I sense that is not the DB direction to go. I welcome any insight. Thank you.

[JamesG]

Latest: W has initiated a couple of conversations in the last week about the marriage but the conversations are about the past, specifically, areas in which I did not perform well as a H. W is correct about 99% of her complaints and I am validating her comments. W never mentions the future. Instead, she says things like "whatever happens with us . . ." She also has remarked a couple of times that she likes my attitude and the way I have been speaking about life and my recent important work meeting. W likes the fact that we are working together and no longer argue about petty stuff. At the same time--this seems to be the BIG obstacle to reconciling our M/R--she repeatedly says that she doesn't know why it took so long for me to get it and that she has been asking me to do all the stuff that I am now doing for years and I didn't do any of it before the S. She asks me why it had to be so hard. She seems to recognize my real change but seems to be reluctant to embrace it as real and lasting and worth taking a risk on. She asked me to join her and the kids for a family outting last week and I did and it went well. She asked me to join them again next week. Does anyone have any insight or thoughts that he/she is willing to share about what might be happening? Thank you.

[2thepoint]

I saw your post on my thread and thought I'd offer my perspective on yours.

First, I would take your W's interest in initiating a discussion about your R as a positive. Her comment "whatever happens with us..." is actually a plus since she at least isn't talking about "after we are D...". So, it seems like whatever you are doing in terms of focusing on yourself is starting to surface in your W's comments.

Early on in my sitch, I started to do a ton of serious 180's and my W seemed to get angry because like your W she didn't understand why it took so long for me to "get it". From my perspective, the fact that I finally got it, should have been worth something, and maybe it is, but it is probably only going to pay dividends much like a Certificate of Deposit. Make your deposit now (invest in yourself/changes) and wait for the CD to reach maturity before you cash out.

That your W is now inviting you to family outings is a real plus! It's good for you and good for the rebuilding of your R with your W. Just know that none of this is going to come easy or fast.

I think you saw what Busto posted on my thread about trust. Just keep that in mind since your W is unsure if she can trust that you will not revert back to the old James that drove her away in the first place. This is where you will have to solidify your changes so that you don't fall back.

Hang on, keep your focus, keep working on your changes, keep your GAL going strong, be there only when your W needs you. And then, maybe after much time has passed, things will start to turn in the favor of your R. Just remember, it is your W that must initiate these R discussions and validate like crazy just like you are doing.

I wish you all the best, James!

[sandi2]

I was feeling good about things--even thinking about asking her about the home renovation and sleeping in the same bed (did neither); then wife mentions a book about how to raise kids following a D that her C gave her; W says she thought the book was good and wanted to share some ideas with me.

You were feeling self-confidence, and that is wonderful. Things will seem confusing and you'll be frustrated, but you have to take things very, very slowly.

You felt pretty good about yourself (and that is great) but next thing you know, you're thinking about approaching the subject of sleeping in the bed with your W! This is exactly why women act cold when otherwise they wouldn't. The first sign of any nice behavior and men usually are ready to skip right past all the other steps and go straight for the bedroom. Therefore, women will act cool or moody to discourage the man from having those thoughts. Case in point as you went on to expound on what your W was thinking.

I was disappointed (said nothing) because I felt as if W had been noticing my efforts and that the impact of her noticing would be that she would be drawn back to me/open to considering giving our M another try.

As long as you continue to expect something positive from her due to your hard work, you will continue to be disappointed. Now this may sound as if I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth, b/c it's human to do that in the beginning when you're doing all these 180's. At least, I think it is human for most people to look for some response to their changes. After all, she is the reason you strive so hard to make these changes......at least in the beginning you are. But when you can get to the place that you are not looking at her for a reaction to your action, and you are doing these changes b/c this is the man you want to be, regardless of the outcome of your M......then you will stop being disappointed at small things she says and does....or doesn't say & do.

Now, I'm going to ask something of you, okay? Don't do like so many LBH's do, and try to convince us that all this work is for yourself--and not to sway her. Frankly, I don't buy it when the LBH keeps saying that such & such is for himself and not her, yada, yada, yada. You won't have to tell us, we'll know.

she repeatedly says that she doesn't know why it took so long for me to get it and that she has been asking me to do all the stuff that I am now doing for years and I didn't do any of it before the S. She asks me why it had to be so hard.

You have to understand that she is dealing with some real anger at you for waiting until she's through and is going to D you, before you finally attempt at making some changes that she's wanted for years. Maybe men who are the WAS doesn't think like that, IDK. If you've read Michele's article on the WAW Syndrome, it may help to understand a little bit.

She seems to recognize my real change but seems to be reluctant to embrace it as real and lasting and worth taking a risk on.

Exactly, b/c she had already made up her mind to take steps at changing her future. The thought of taking the gamble at giving the M another chance is scary and she thinks (IMO) that if it fails again, she may not come out the second time as emotionally strong as she is now. IOW, she's come this far, and to take a risk at having to go through that pain again is about too much. Remember that this is how I think the WAW sees it.

I think the more she sees you becoming the man she fell in love with, the more she's going to feel frustrated. She may lash out in anger, but don't stop working on improving. Just remember what I told you about how you waited so long and now her plans may have a stumbling block......that being, the new and improved "you". It will be frustration and irration peppered with anger. I believe that some of those feelings are due to her experiencing feelings for you that she thought was over. That could spoil a girl's day!