"A big question I have is how do I approach the situation if she says she is going to go out in a day or two? I don't trust her at all right now.... but restricting her I think would lead to even worse actions or feelings."
Jake, you need to let her go and not question her about this. First, there really isn't a thing you can do about it and second, it is not helping matters, at all!
Trust your instincts here regarding leading to worse actions or feelings.
Me51 W53 S17 S14 M22 T25 Bomb-9/11; A-11/11; I move out 11/11
It's easy to find our bottom, it is our top that requires cultivation.
Every rough spot adds to our emotional constitution. -Barney Fife
Verify can sometimes mean snoop. Nothing wrong with that. She has betrayed your trust and so you need to do what is necessary to survive. Sometimes, that means to snoop...
NOW...
You have information that she contacted OM, AGAIN. This after she told you no more contact.
There is no excuese for that. She is lying still.
IMHO, you need to take control of your life. By setting boundaries. For me that meant no emailing, calling, texting, seeing, speaking to OM. EVER! PERIOD! And my W has respected that boundary for over 13 months.
That was my boundary and I was and am STILL ready to walk out if she crosses it. And I won't walk JUST because she crossed my boundary. It's because she would have lied to me AGAIN.
You need to set your boundary and stick to it. But be ready to take action once you set that boundary. Or she won't respect or believe you.
Good luck...
M: 42 - W: 41 - M: 18 - T: 23 - D:16 S:14 EA - July 2010 NC w/EA - Nov 2010 Piecing - Jan 2011 I ask for div - Jan 2012 Div papers filed - Mar 2012 I move out - July 2012 Divorce final - Nov 7, 2012
I don't know, I get what 25yearsmlc says for sure, it's great advice. At the same time, having sat in your seat, I know that course of action takes an iron will and I'm not reading that you're there yet.
Maybe I can take another slant on it for you. Fast forward, let's pretend that W is having a secretive, full-on PA with OM, and she tells you that she no longer loves you and wants a divorce.
If that was the case, you would need to gut-check. What do you want? Is that a deal breaker that will make you walk away, or would you want W back?
If you would want W back, then you would have to:
-- 180, and prove your 180's with consistent action, not words -- GAL, and become a better person -- Give space and not pursue -- "Act as if" everything is OK.
Note that on this list, W doesn't need to do anything. There is no role for her to play there at all. It's all about you and what you're going to do.
If W had asked you for a divorce and walked away, you could not demand answers, you could not ask her about her whereabouts, you could not ask for remorse or apology, and eventually you couldn't snoop. You would have to deal with all that on your own and get beyond it. In effect, you could expect *nothing* of W, it would all be on you.
You would have to do all those things with the horrible knowledge that your wife had a full-on PA. You would have to get to a place of forgiveness for your own peace of mind, and expect nothing in return. You would have to let it go and move on.
I think part of 25's point is that if you continue on your current course of action, you may very well find yourself there. If you continue to snoop, continue to try to control what W is doing, continue to play games, you will push her away. If you push her away, time with OM becomes more attractive, because he "gets her better" and does not come with a laundry list of demands and accusations.
What I get from 25's advice is that you need to do the same things now that you would need to do if things were much worse, BUT YOU HAVE A HUGE HEAD START. Many people on this board would actually LOVE to be in your position -- you haven't been told you're not loved, you haven't been asked for divorce, your W hasn't moved out, you're not being treated like a pariah.
Capitalize on that, assume that your W's emotional state is for the worse. Assume that she owes you nothing, and that pursuing commitments or explanations from her will push her out the door.
Although you don't realize it now, the stakes really are that high. Your marriage is in trouble -- serious trouble, and that really has nothing to do with OM.
So what do you do?
Be positive Be fun to be around Be supportive Be accepting "Act as If" everything is ok Recognize that snooping is addictive and will only make you feel worse. -- Lock yourself out of any accounts of hers you have access to -- Change the phone bill to be in her name so you can't access it -- Teach her to put a lock screen on her phone so you can't read it.
It's time to put everything on the table and remove temptation.
Accuray
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
1. My method is not right for all. It depends on ur sitch, your W and what u can take. So do what works for you.
2. Accuray decided not to give an ultimatum... BUT... His W was honest with him about the fact that she was not going to stop talking to OM.
And as hard and gut wrenching and painful as that is, she was HONEST with him. And his W allowed HIM to make the decision knowing ALL the facts...
Just keep her honest so YOU can decide. Continued deception will only create resentment and pain for you IMHO...
Good luck my friend...
M: 42 - W: 41 - M: 18 - T: 23 - D:16 S:14 EA - July 2010 NC w/EA - Nov 2010 Piecing - Jan 2011 I ask for div - Jan 2012 Div papers filed - Mar 2012 I move out - July 2012 Divorce final - Nov 7, 2012
Sad_but_happy is also correct -- you can use the ultimatum and let her know you will be verifying.
the problem with sbh advice is that Jake is not ready to give an ultimatum AND btw,
this is NOT DB advice. It's SBH's...
As sad_but_happy points out, you need to be willing to walk if she doesn't follow through.
Are you there yet? if he were there, I think he'd be gone by now. Am i wrong Jake? Aren't you trying to save this even if she's been with him but wants you now?
Most people HERE would love to hear that the marriage is important to their spouse. Instead of being glad to have the chance to start fresh,
you keep looking over HER shoulder and not working on you. Like I said, what 180s are there for HER to see?
I just see more of the anger and stomping around saying she "broke her word" or "crossed your boundary" that to HER makes no sense!
TO HER --- YOU are out of line. YOu are the one she's fleeing b/c
you keep bossing her around and trying to say SHE let you down or "betrayed you" b/c she failed to obey you...with your latest "boundary" as if it was a mutually agreed upon condition.
I think she thinks You forced it upon her. Now you want to take SBh's advice and you want to go verify if she obeyed your latest order not to have contact with OM? AND THEN WHAT???
I hope you see how that "sounds"...
Good luck...
I had this issue where W continued to talk to one of her OM's and wouldn't agree to stop.
I talked to my DB coach about the ultimatum, but ultimately realized that I wasn't ready to follow through on the "or else". Ultimately, I improved myself, improved the relationship, and at that point W voluntarily gave up OM for good.
THIS IS YOUR ONLY DIV BUSTING COURSE OF ACTION --- UNLESS YOU ARE WILLING TO WALK
and then you can take SBH's advice to end things
B/C YOUR WIFE ISN'T READY TO OBEY ALL YOUR CONDITIONS AND
YOU ARE TOO IMPATIENT TO WAIT --AND YOU ARE NOT FOCUSING ON YOUR OWN CHANGES ANYHOW, which is the only way to actually get her to see or feel differently about you.
Jake, does it seem easier to end it than to change yourself?
Or is it too hard to wait and work on yourself and not have a guaranteed result?
To me that is the big hurdle for you. You want a known guaranteed result, but Jake, you never had that before. AND None of us have that now.
decide what's right for you.
Accuray
one of the two useful pieces of advice I got from the priest who married us was that
while deceit is bad for any marriage, it's important not to encourage deceit by over reacting.
If you blow up b/c your wife dents the car, she's not so likely to tell you the next time someone keys her car in the lot. She might "go behind your back" to get it fixed so she can avoid being berated or chewed out or lectured.
Sure, it's "wrong" to deceive,
but look to your own role in this too. It's the ONLY thing YOU can change here. The rest of this is a blame game and it'll get you nowhere.
Lose the scorecard.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I won't get into a p!ssing match with 25... She is a value to this board.
I will say that DB is about saving yourself. Going outside the box and trying things based on results is fine.
There is no one way.
And all the bold letters and colored words won't change that fact.
25, I would appreciate your not assuming that your way is the ONLY way. If needed, ill bring you a HUGE ladder to get off that soap box your on.
So I tell you Jake, My way worked for me. Almost everything I did was DB. I set boundaries and stuck to them. So I ask you. Was I wrong?
Good luck Jake.
M: 42 - W: 41 - M: 18 - T: 23 - D:16 S:14 EA - July 2010 NC w/EA - Nov 2010 Piecing - Jan 2011 I ask for div - Jan 2012 Div papers filed - Mar 2012 I move out - July 2012 Divorce final - Nov 7, 2012
I think the advice been give here is for two different type of affairs.
If your W is running away and not looking back Accuray's advice is great. Specially the snooping part. In this case snooping does no good since, well you already know she is having an affair! Going dark means letting her go to see if the other side of the fence truly is greener.
In your case, your W came back to pretend she is the good wife. Who knows what her reasons are, maybe she is conflicted, maybe she needs money, maybe she wants to have both of you. Who knows. What we do know is that she came back wanting to start over.
DB victory right? I mean a lot of folks seem to want to declare that.
I get it here at DB we fight to get our spouses back, we change and grow, and do our best, but when the spouse comes back are they someone we want back? Are they someone who came back to work on the M or someone who came back because you finally bent backwards and forwards enough for them to appease them?
Did she come back to do the hard work, or did she come back because leaving is too hard. Is Jake worth letting go of OM?
Doesn't seem so.
Now she comes back claiming to want to be honest with you, to end the pain, and move on. Doesn't seem that way to me.
Yes your wife is addicted to OM. She can't let go, and like any addict she'll use you as long as she can. So are you going to sit here and enable this by burying your head in the sand.
Affairs fizzle against the light of reality, when they realize that this person will be their next partner. When they see that person's true qualities and compare them to yours. If you have been DBing right your flaws would have been worked on, as OM's start to come out.
She then has to choose between you and OM.
In the current state you guys are in, she doesn't have to choose. She can keep both until she makes up her mind. In this scenario, unless OM is a loser the odds are against you. You are the ugly reality, OM is the dreamy fantasy.
Here's my advice:
Tell her you checked the bill, tell her you know she broke her promise. Tell her that you want this to work, but her actions show you she doesn't.
Tell her she needs to choose who is more important.
Will she fly off the handle?
Most likely,
will she run away with OM? Probably.
At least now she has to face reality, she cant continue to live this fantasy at your expense.
Then you work hard on yourself to be a good man. If she returns good, hopefully this time she'll value you. If she's like most spouses returning from an affair she'll probably ask you to check on her.
Then you can begin to trust, and forgive.
Right now, how can you start trusting someone who can't be honest with you.
Here's the thing. We both went the route of seeing a divorce attorney to look into that option.. (in my case I went to a few to cover all my grounds) and we both eventually decided that it was not something we wanted. I didn't want it because of the ramifications it would have on the kids and my interest in reconciliation. And she told the MC that was her reasons for not proceeding as well.
If I draw a line in the sand that says if she contacts the OM then expect a D, it's virtually guaranteed that she will walk right then and I will have the immediate repercussions of her leaving with the kids and the D process starting right away as we both immediately fight for the kids. I know her and giving her an ultimatum is the fastest way to guarantee she does exactly what she feels she is being prevented from doing.... even if she doesn't want to do it. Setting aside the M, she would instantly pull the kids from the school and move back to her hometown 30min away and stay with her mother temporarily. So, that option is not on the table and she knows it I think.
With that being said, I guess I need to continue working on myself with 180s and the MC stuff. I have made a commitment to myself for my own mental sanity that I will not snoop and check the phone bill for the next week. I don't make empty promises so I'm hoping that in a week I will not look at it and commit to another week without looking.
I guess I just don't really get it. She went about a month with no contact to the OM that I was aware of and no suspicious behavior. Then all of a sudden she renewed her prepaid phone and talked to him, then after being confronted by it she went silent on him a week and now is texting/calling him the past 2 days.
We have our 6th MC session tomorrow evening. I know that she will report to the MC that I am improving on the things that I have been asked and agreed upon, because I have.
I tried taking the advice of "acting as if" today and "living in the present" and it really helped make me a more positive person to be around. I don't know if you can tell but I'm using this forum as a way of expressing frustration and negative feelings/thoughts that I'm trying not to show.
