OK- take it for what it's worth. in '05 I was the LBS, now I'm the WAW. Yup, I'm walkin away so things didn't patch up all that well. Long story (years worth of posts).
I am also the queen of detachment, so I apologize if my posts seem cold. I'm just kinda a straight shoot'n kinda gal.
One, remember that every event has at least 2 sides. What you remember and perceived may not be what she remembers and perceives; in fact it's bound to be totally different!!!
Those "happy times" could have been times she was trying like heck to put on a good front and try to be happy. You saw happy and felt happy, she felt miserable and fake.
As a WAW I do have moments of second thoughts. Is this really what I want? Do I want to divorce? Is this best for the kids? I think I asked myself those things at least 10 times today. But for me, the answer keeps coming back yes. (sorry) Why? I go over all the hoops I jumped through for H, all the crap I put up with (oh and it is crap), the double standards, etc.
But yes, I question myself and my decision. Tears? Nope. None this time. (sorry)
Second, she won't see changes because she doesn't want to (or she won't acknowledge them). Changes could be too little to late, or well that's all and good, but why now...why not 3 years ago? or Well, those changes won't last (which in my case was right on the money!)
Third, each WAW is different and is thinking different things. But she is a mom of a little kid. I think it would only be natural for a mom to wonder if she was doing the right thing by splitting from her child's dad.
Fourth- now get out of her head. Who cares? Wondering will only kill you (remember that cat?)
You need to do what is best for you and for your child when he's with you. That's it.
Think of this time as time to do everything you've always wanted to but couldn't. Look at all the alone time you have!!!!!!!! Don't spend it thinking about things you can't change
Again, I think that her asking for things is her beginning to feel the sting of her departure.
Here's how I see it, as long as she's able to get what she needs from your house, she isn't feeling the sting. It's more likely to sting when she's faced without whatever she doesn't have....and have to actually experience going through not having it.
Hopefully, that helps to answer your next question.
Quote:
Today she even asked me to bring the baby monitor for her next time. Do I say "please stop asking me for things"??
When she takes these things from your house, then will you go buy new ones? Does that seem "right" to you? In the end, only you will decide if you're going to handle this S with kit gloves or tough love. Do you want her to feel the sting of life without you? That also applies to the custody and visitation. If you plan to use kit gloves, then you just might let her strip your house bare. If you apply a little tougher love (which is not fun), you tell her (the last trip) to get what she needs b/c there will be no more trips to load up her car with your household items. And, if it's something the baby needs at both houses, then you have to decide to either tell her she'll have to provide that from her own pocket book or else you'll have to. Whatever or whichever way you decide to handle it....I'd advise you to have a pocket calendar to keep up with the days and what she took from the house. Anything that is for the baby, then you may need advice from somebody who know the legal aspects, b/c I don't. It use to matter, but now days, I think the parents get 50/50 and just deal with the problems. 25years here on the board might be able to tell you. I think she would say, "How do you want your WAW to remember you? Mad, angry, close minded......or cooperating, willing, having the baby's best interest at heart". (Only 25 would say it much better.)
But I think you need to decide which manner you want to proceed with, and try to use that as your measuring stick in these areas.
It seems you are already seeing a side that you have a hard time believing this girl you love could be so thoughtless toward you.
Quote:
Do you think that she has moments of second thoughts?
I don't know how long she may be like this. There's too many things in the equation. I do believe a WAW can have moments that she questions if she's doing the right thing or not.....especially when there is a baby involved. However, that seldom stops her from her ultimate goal.
Quote:
I have a hard time seeing how her new life is "better" than what she left - of course it is without ME in it so I guess that is the big component of it.
That is exactly why she appears all bubbly when you walk into her new place. She is going to show you how happy she is being out on her own. She does not' t want you sticking your finger in her face and saying, "See, see! Admit it, you were wrong!"
And, she is happy...for now. Even being without some things she had in the former house, that's not what makes her happy. She feels free, and that's what she likes. I remember very clearly how much I wanted just to be free.
Quote:
I am for sure in the LRT stage, but there are moments when I just want to ask her "are you SURE you want to do this???" or ask her again to go to a counselor.
Quote:
At the end of the day, I just want my family back.
This is the goal to set before you each time you have a question about doing something. Ask yourself, " How will this help me getting my family back"? If you can't answer, then ask yourself "who" benefits?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Sox - Thanks again for your reply and thanks for giving me some insight into your story. I am sorry that this have not fallen into place in the way you would like them to. You are very right that I need to get out of her head. It's a tough thing to do - very tough. I hope it gets easier over time. Truthfully, I am still dizzy from the punch of her dropping the D-bomb and I am still trying to gain my balance.
Sandi-great insight once again. If you wrote a book on WAWs I would probably buy it!
When I pose the question "will this get me closer or farther away to my goal of saving my family" I get torn. On the one hand, I tell myself if I help her with the things she needs and do not argue or fight, she will see me differently. If I protest and tell her "no" to everything it may make her feel the sting, but I fear that it will also make her view me as a total jerk - which doesn't help my cause/goal at all.
It's hard to hear, but you're probably right - she probably is happy right now. Happy to be away from me, happy to have her freedom. I know there are many variables to this question - but how long does that last? Forever? If I am being honest, I think my ego wants her to miss me as much as I miss her, but I don't see that as realistic right now - and I know I have to check my ego at the door in this process.
This morning I texted her asking if she would prefer limiting our communication to issues surrounding our son and our pending D. She responded "for now". Knowing she feels that way will help me detach more - but it still burns a little bit.
I really feel like I am trapped and there is nothing I can do to save my marriage and family right now. No communication, pending fights over custody, and a WAW that seems to be happy living without me. I hope that time will help turn this tide, but with the passing of each day it becomes difficult to stay hopeful and positive. I will do my best to keep my focus on my son and myself - but it is hard when I can't stop missing her or my son when he is gone.
Funny. No sooner did I post this than I got a text from W asking for the toaster ("if you don't use it").
Even though I am in LRT and trying to save my family I replied as follows:
"I am going to make a request and I hope you don't take it the wrong way - please stop asking me for things. You know it is still in me to try to provide and protect for you and that is not where we are anymore. I want to say "yes" to nearly everything because I still view your comfort and safety as my job - which I need to stop doing. We now have separate households and we need to take care of them ourselves. In the end, it will help me detach from you - and I believe that is what you would like at this stage of our relationship".
Kind of felt good to say that, but can't say that it moves me any closer to a goal of saving my family. Too much?
Exchanged son with WAW tonight. It's an emotional double whammy of seeing my wife and her barely acknowledging me and saying good-bye to my sweet little boy. It [censored], but I LRT'd it and presented well and was positive and did not drag out or attempt any real conversation - remained "pleasant". She seemed unfazed and could care less if I was standing there or engulfed in flames running in circles in the driveway. Guess she is still in the "happy-to-be-gone" phase.
You're right, gm23. I am still struggling with the right way to say things and not over-stating. Probably tried too hard to be "nice" in the message for fear of pushing her away with a quick, one-line approach. In retrospect, I wish I would have said just that.
Thank you for the guidance. I won't forget next time.
So as part of my GAL endeavors I am having a small party/get together here at the house to decorate for Christmas this Saturday. Not something I would normally do . Historically, the W and I would do it the day after thanksgiving. It's painful without her, but I want my son to have a great holiday so onward I march. Being new to this whole DB DR process I have a few questions.
1.) Do I tell her about it? Even in casual passing?
2.) I'm assuming since I am in LRT that I sure as hell don't invite her
Crimson
PS...apologies if I over-posted today, but I find that it keeps me from getting lost in my head.
Has anything been said about the household items being legally separated? You probably don't want that, but it seems she thinks nothing of getting things from her former house. She may have every right, IDK.
Next TM you send, don't sound so pitiful. Don't talk about feelings (yours or hers).
Quote:
1.) Do I tell her about it? Even in casual passing?
2.) I'm assuming since I am in LRT that I sure as hell don't invite her
The answer is NO to both questions.
I understand you want her to see you doing things like this, but you can't move on with your life hoping she's watching from her window, or even worse...tell her about it. That usually comes across to the WAW as being so cheesy. It's really a turn off for you to tell her, but if she hears about it elsewhere, then that may spark a little interest.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Nothing has been said about separating items legally, though we did follow community property guidelines so for the most part what she has is what she has.
I wish I could go back to yesterday and reword that text. In an effort to not come off as a jerk i came across as too wishy-washy. I now see why in so many threads people lament that this DB process is hard. Luckily, this board is a great sounding post. I am glad that I found it. Live and learn, I suppose. I am sure i will get better at it as time goes on. (experiment and measure results!)
I won't breath a word to her about Saturday. Oddly enough, I did invite our neighbors and I know she still talks to the wife. So she'll probably hear about it anyway.
I asked her yesterday if she would prefer limiting our discussions to our son and pending separation/D and she responded simply, "for now". So it looks as if any attempts to try to be her friend are out the window. Part of me fears that the lack of communication and contact will only drive a larger wedge between us. Notwithstanding, I am not going to over-communicate. Seems like she is either still angry or just trying to put me out of her mind right now. It shouldn't worry me, but it does to some extent.
As you noted before, she probably is genuinely happy for now, being on her own and just wants to keep it that way. I just wonder how long that phase lasts.
Seems like today is going to be an anxiety day. Logically, I know that I am only about two and a half months into this (since W dropped bomb) and I am learning from this board, reading and talks with others that patience is key – but right now my sitch seems tremendously hopeless with little to no positives to call out.
We haven’t had a real discussion about anything other than matters pertaining to S/D and custody since she dropped the bomb
It looks like I am on the brink of a custody fight (W won’t accept 50/50 plan)
W made it clear that she doesn’t want to discuss anything except child and S/D “for now”
She has left the house and established her own place
When we exchange custody she barely speaks to me or looks at me
She hasn’t so much as asked “how are you?”
I miss my son tremendously we I don’t have him
Maybe I am having a particularly weak moment right now, but it all seems so bleak – she has shown no signs of wanting to work on R or reconcile at all. I am doing my best to stay positive, hopeful and take care of myself – but it is becoming increasingly difficult in the absence of any kind of positive response from W.
Given the lack of contact and communication that we have, I am doing LRT/going dark on nothing but blind faith and the hope that it might be effective. It seems like “going dark” is exactly what she wants me to do right now – seems like she could care less if she hears from me or not. In fact, I would go as far as to say she would prefer not to see me at all at this point. It is as if she has no memory of anything GOOD between us at all and I am the center piece of her discontent. I am merely the father of her son right now.
Need to stay strong and maintain PMA, but I am struggling…..guess I just need encouragement and some belief that my situation is capable of being pulled back from the cliff.
That's it. 
(Only 25 would say it much better.)