REQ: Looking for a thread from a fellow DBer...

[Abbey]

FWIW, my T subs under someone who is doing a pile of research on narcissists and PDs. She's had discussions with him about my case because it's very clear that the H and his PD psycho g/f are a toxic soup of one needing to feed off the other.

It's not about excusing his behavior, only allowing me to understand it, so I know how to best protect myself and utilize what might be unconventional methods. (Eg, back rubs.)

[MynameisMZ]

Abbey,

I get what you are doing and why. You are creating a survival plan AND an exit plan. You seem to have analyzed and educated yourself as to the dynamics of what your H is ensconced in. I applaud you and your incredible strength.

I'm not clear on the time-line of things. Maybe a mini bullet point would help me. I often jump on here when there is a lull in my work. So, I don't have a lot of time to do the "research" so to speak.

You asked if I "could predict how their stuff was going to play out" in my own sitch. I need to get back to you on that. It's not so simple an answer. I was pretty freaked out and so my ability to think clearly was way off. I also haven't figured out the quote thing yet.

MZ

[oldtimer]

"Asking my opinion, testing the waters about me raising that child. Having that child with us. He's asking my opinion again. "

"she'll always be able to use that baby to suck him in"

Seeing you write about a child like that is disturbing. It is ugly.

"That child," "that baby" is H's BABY GIRL. The other "demon spawn" you mention are HIS DAUGHTER'S SIBLINGS. If you reconcile, his daughter will be your daughter. The other kids will be a very important part of her life as her siblings. She is an innocent child whom your H loves who will hopefully always be a big part of his life and get to spend at least half of her time with him.

[Abbey]

I understand your concern old timer, but after being completely willing to adopt her as my own, raise her as my own, I have to distance myself from putting my head in that space again until this thing plays out. She IS my H's baby. She IS someone I would love and care for as my own. She would be every bit mine. Trust me. My T specializes in blended families, as well as marriage breakdown. She sees NOTHING wrong with my wording, nor the paper wall I've put up.

FWIW, My sis in law dealt with a similar sitch and "that child" comment is the same coming out of her mouth as it is mine. So don't get caught up on the wording. Her "that child" she raised from 7 months onward. Even though my nephew has a bio mother... My sis in law's wording is and was the same.... "that child" is MINE. He is my kid. X is my child, I'm that child's mother. This same sis in law has "promised" to help raise "that child" and do everything she can to help H and I raise that baby because of our lack of experience. (We live 10 houses apart). My sis in law would disown me faster than a dirty piece of gum if I regarded the child as anything less than precious.

How many women in their late forties would be willing to raise a child, considering the circumstances. Not many.

As for the "daemon spawn". You know that supernanny show? Well that's what her other kids are like. Multiply it by 4 other kids. My H is already speaking about getting her away from "them" and trying to get exclusive custody. So what can I say. I see redeeming qualities in the oldest daughter. The 3 sons... scare me. They're way out of control.

[oldtimer]

Why call her "that child" rather than H's DD?

[Abbey]

I think you may be getting caught up in wording, and not intent. Other than this board/forum, Things like OW, OP, OM, LBS, DS, DD, DH, DW etc are just not such common usage.

On one board H's are spoken of by "most" as My Sweetheart. Online, as always, lacks the facial expression, and verbal inflection to adequately color the words.

If you lived in my area of the world, you'd hear words like: the kidlettes, kids, (which I know makes some people see red), the munchins, the peanuts, -(which I actually still call one of my nephews).

To suggest I write/reference her as H's DD isn't something I see as necessary.

[Abbey]

Presently, H is still caught up in OW's crazy life. She works where she's on call. He spent 20 minutes telling me about how her boss is screwing her around because she's given him 2 weeks notice.

Yeah... ok. Poor thing. Not.

He then proceeds to tell me that when she takes the new job, it'll work better for him because she'll have even less time to spend with the child.

What became very obvious when he talked, was how he's again caught up in her "drama" queen, roller coaster nuttiness. It fits in with what affair induced narcissism and PD -OP require to feed their spin. Right now, she's called again, crying on his shoulder about what she should do. He feels needed.

Round and round it goes.... *shakes head*

[oldtimer]

Well, I'm not sure what is necessary in life. But shifting your mindset might help your chances of reconciliation.

Imagine you were dating someone new with a very young child. If you don't welcome them as a package deal, even long before you meet the child, the R probably isn't going to go anywhere. If you view them as your beau and that child, your lives won't mesh.

With H, for him, it isn't H and that child. They are now a package deal. If you change how you think of them in your mind, it will show through in your behavior.

Right now, it *seems* as though you see reconciling with H as step (1) and then working that child in as step (2). That is, getting to the point of you+H and then moving to you+H+1. But, there is no longer just H. H simply IS H+1 NOW, and always will be. That IS who he is.

You really seem to be putting up an emotional barrier to embracing that. I don't believe it is simply a matter of word choice between kid and tot. There is emotion and pain behind how you choose to refer to H's DD. You already said that was the case. And frankly, it seems to me plainly obvious AND perfectly understandable.

But this is a place where you can clearly do work on yourself (rather than worrying about predicting/shaping H's and OW's actions). If you can really come to peace and embrace H+1 in your head and in your words and in your actions, you will fare better in your life no matter how things go and improve you chances of reconciliation.

And, to be clear, I don't at all question your ability or willingness to be a loving parent to H's DD.

[Abbey]

I appreciate what you're saying Old Timer, but I'm not likely to change over my way of dealing with this. My mind set is what it is.

To be clear: It's my H who's resisting my interaction with his daughter. He's in a spin cycle of being fed by dysfunctional relationship with the OW and the drama she likes to make. He doesn't understand why he's attracted to, but he is. (he just said so.)

It will be HIS protection of his daughter that will eventually win out. With, or without me.

As for a package deal, I have nothing now, except a WAS,... so thinking in terms of what I could have is counter productive, IMO.

[Abbey]

Abbey,

I get what you are doing and why. You are creating a survival plan AND an exit plan. You seem to have analyzed and educated yourself as to the dynamics of what your H is ensconced in. I applaud you and your incredible strength.

Thanks MZ,

I'm not sure if it's strength or self protection. It's hard to try to stay "hard" and chin up. Hearing what went on this morning with the, and her calling him for every little burp in her life, needing his input on ever aspect of her existence seems to entice him. It makes him feel needed and important. It's broken bird syndrome. He's buying it hook, line and sinker.

I found something interesting the other day on another site: I'm going to quote a bit of it.

Quote: Why is this type appealing to an MLCer? The simple answer is that MLCers are drama queens and many crave the excitement that is a byproduct of a volatile relationship. This excitement keeps the relationship going--in an on-again-off-again pattern, but it is the initial adoration and idolization that draws the self-hating MLCer into the web of seduction. Once the in-fatuation hormones release there is no stopping the relationship; it must and will continue until it destroys itself. Interference and attempts by the spouse to kill the relationship will only give it more power.

The Borderline's dependency appeals to the Knight in Shining Armour Syndrome so common to MLCers. She is intoxicatingly exciting and at the same time vulnerable and broken. He sees a woman who can not only bring excitement to his life, but whom he can fix while she does it. There may be a recognition of his own broken state and some MLCers will feel that since they are unable to fix themselves they should try to fix someone else instead--perhaps in this manner they think will fix themselves as a byproduct. Being a rescuer enables an MLCer to feel a greater sense of self-worth and value.



This describes my H to a tee. He's intoxicated by her neediness and her chaos.