DB/DR are designed to be used by ONE of you. It actually can work against you to share the DB information with your spouse. DBing is FOR YOU to use to improve your relationship.
Keeping Love Alive and The Marriage Breakthrough can be used by both of you, but I wouldn't suggest it unless she's interested.
Begin using the information and trying the techniques YOURSELF.
Does your W work outside of the home? I am not sure I'm getting the correct picture here, so help me out.
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Frankly, given the way I have stepped it up, on many nights there are very few chores for her to do. I should like your opinion on whether my new-found (and long-overdue) contributions to issues of family maintenance are working in my best interest.
What does your W do while you are doing all these chores?
If she stays home with the children, I know she must be ready for a little break by the time you get home. However, if she's leaving things for you to do......I would suggest you be careful not to over-kill. IMHO, that's what you are doing. Cleaning the kitchen after dinner, bathing the kids and getting them in bed, and picking up toys & clutter.....should be enough. But when you try to do all of her work.....then it will actually have a negative affect on the attraction. It's hard to explain. I remember when dating, the boys that tried too hard were not the ones who drew my attention. In fact, there were some that it just turned me off.
If your W was sick, or had been up all night with one of the kids (something like that), then yes, do more of the work load. But when it's related to M problems.....it's not good to do everything like you're doing.
You have spoke of clutter a couple of times. My H could easily become a hoarder. It drives me insane! I am embarrassed by the way our back yard looks b/c the storage building is spilling over. He doesn't want me to touch any of his stuff, but he won't throw it away. I can't tell you what a negative impact that has had on me over the years. So, I'm glad you are working on your garage and even if your W doesn't say anything, I'll bet she is relieved to see the job you're doing.
I want to warn you not to expect her to say or show any positive response to any of the chores you're doing. The reason is b/c she will resent a lot of your work, simply b/c it took her threatening to D you before you started doing these things she's wanted you to do. So, she's going to think to herself, "too little too late". You must do these things b/c you want to have your home looking nice, or whatever, but not to kiss up and hope she's going to be impressed. Watch yourself, b/c even if you say you don't expect any thanks from her.....it will be easy to feel disappointed at no response at all.
Regarding you forgetting things about schedules, etc., why not have a big calendar on the frig where she can pencil in the activities or schedule for certain dates. Just ask her if she'll work with you on that for everyone's sake. The more we have on our minds, the more we forget.
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I said no and I told her that it was not a big deal and to go and have fun. Did I handle this correctly?
Yes, I think you did fine. Michele tells us to pick our battles, meaning that we are not to make every hiccup a major battle. She is going to do things that will try your patience, but just try to stay calm, and don't argue with her.
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My W says the C is "new agey" and makes her feel comfortable as a woman. My W has told me that she feels "lost" in her life and is discussing those feelings with her C.
I think a lot of women are encouraged to leave their H, and/or family, to "go find themselves" or "do whatever makes you feel happy" in some of these new-age C sessions. That C will not help your W in the M. In fact, you may be the problem that's preventing your W from being happy. If she's not saying much about the sessions, then that could be why, but that's just me.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thank you, dbmod, for the reminder. I know DB/DR is for me. I just wish I could get my W to take a look at the concepts because I have found them to be powerful and true and representative of our M. (In time, perhaps.) I will heed your advice. I do not want to push her (further) away.
Yes, Sandi2, she does work outside the home, part-time--so she is home with the children about half of each work day. Some of the chores that I am doing I am handling when my W is out of the house or asleep at night. Others are shared: I will be working on one chore and she will be working on another (admittedly, the way it should have been all along). I appreciate the advice, I have pulled back somewhat in this area over the last few days because it felt like I was killing myself to show how much "I get it."
The clutter issue is/was this for me: when in doubt, keep it. Like you, my W HATES all the junk (she has "jokingly" referred to me as a hoarder in the past). Since the S, I have been working overtime to get rid of stuff; unless it is essential, it goes. I know my W has noticed because she has said so. While I am continuing to work my tail off in this area, I no longer show her my efforts or ask her to notice. I just bag the stuff up and ready it for the curb. When she comments on it, I say that it has needed to be done and I don't want the stuff around the house.
I think your comments about resentment are dead-on. There are times when I can see in her eyes the exact feelings you described ("Why now?" and "It's too late."). Your comments about my disappointment are also accurate; I admit that I want her to notice the change in me these efforts demonstrate; but, I also know that its very freeing personally to toss all the junk so I am doing it for myself as well.
Somewhat related to this topic, we were to undertake a home renovation this fall. We agreed to put it off during the S. Since discovering DB, I have not mentioned it (but I did talk about it with her when I was pursuing--to no avail). Our house really needs updating and the project is a phone call away and I want to let my W know how much I want to do the project now (rather than felt like she was pushing it) but I am not sure that would be beneficial at this point because with her being a WAW, she does not imagine a future for us so I am guessing that talking about the project would push her away. She made a comment this morning about a house problem that the renovation would fix. I did not respond other than to say that I agreed that the situation was a problem. What I wanted to say was, let's do the renovation and get it fixed. Any suggestions?
We have a calendar; I simply forgot to check it. My fault.
I suspect my W's C is not on my side. They are meeting weekly. Any suggestions other than to roll with the punches?
Final thought for now: last night my W said we could watch a movie together. We watched for a while until she fell asleep. A few minutes before falling asleep she told me that she wanted to talk about "some issues" the next day with me (today). I have no idea what she meant. She did not say it negatively or positively. It could be ideas about the holidays and the children. It could be something about the M or S. Thus far today, she has not mentioned it and against every instinct in my body, neither have I. If she does not bring it up today, should I or should I just let it go?
The clutter issue is/was this for me: when in doubt, keep it
From watching the programs on TV, and from observing my H, there is always good intentions that it can be used in the future. I've read different rules of thumb about storing things, and some say if an item has not used in the past three years (or five....I can't remember), chances are slim it will ever be used again.
Good job at not trying to get her to notice your work. That can be difficult, especially if your love language is acts of service.
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I did not respond other than to say that I agreed that the situation was a problem. What I wanted to say was, let's do the renovation and get it fixed. Any suggestions?
My suggestion is that you speak about the renovation as if you are thinking of the market value. Your W might be more receptive if she doesn't feel you are using the renovation as a gateway to a future with her. If she thinks you may want to sell it, then she won't feel the need to discourage the process of renovating.
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I suspect my W's C is not on my side. They are meeting weekly. Any suggestions other than to roll with the punches?
Not much else you can do. If you try to discourage her from seeing this C, it could make her more determined to use this C.
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she told me that she wanted to talk about "some issues" the next day with me
Oh I know that had to be hard not to prompt her. When I hear a woman say she has an "issue", I think she's referring to something of a negative nature. So, it would probably be best not to remind her.
So, have you made any GAL plans for the week?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
As always, Sandi2, thanks. Here is a quick update: we were in the house together this afternoon with the children working on different projects and it was uneventful. I did not mention the "issues" discussion. I had a GAL activity planned that my W knew about. As I was getting ready to go, she said that because we did not get to discuss the issues during the day, she wanted to do so tonight. I said ok. I am very anxious to have this conversation but I am trying to remind myself not to act/respond/speak out of fear. I will update you again as soon as I am able.
Sandi2, here is an update following the "issues" conversation: W told me that she wants to proceed with the D process. W feels she had turned over every stone. (I disagree and want to challenge her on this but do not know how to do so without further alienating her.) W feels she has stayed in the M for the kids for years and has wanted to get out of the M for years. W wants to start over even though she acknowledges there will be a negative impact on the kids. W says she is unwilling to stay in the M or work on the M for the sake of the children. W acknowledges that I have demonstrated change since the S (about 1 1/2 months) but W is skeptical about the change being on-going and W believes the changes are only motivated by desire to get back together. W has no response to my assertion that she has never been married to the man I am now. (She only focuses on the negative impact of my failures from the past.) W does not want to discuss continuing the M.
With the exception of one mutual cross moment, the conversation was very civil: no raised voices and no curse words. In fact, we spoke about how we should work together through the D process because of the children. W said that I was listening to her for the first time in the M. (I would love to build on this.) W said that she has a fantasy that our future cooperation would be such that I would help her locate new housing, for example.
In addition to D, we discussed a S that would involve us not living under the same roof but rotating indvidually to the marital home to parent the children. W seemed somewhat open to the possibility. W talked about feeling "trapped" at the house with us both there. I told her we both could take nights away. She said that she did not want to do that because I might use it against her in the D process. I said I would not or would take time away myself so it would not be an issue. W felt better about it and thought it was a good idea. I am sure I back-slid during the conversation in terms of pursuing and paying more attention to her feelings than mine but I did not beg or plead. I did ask her if she would consider seeing a C together but she said there was no point because she had already made up her mind.
W asked me to come up with some ideas about visitation and the D process to discuss. We are going to talk again in a few days. (It is unclear whether we will attend the collaborative D seminar on 12/10; I want to; she is undecided.) We discussed the D process as a new journey together and we both had some peace around that idea (for substantially different reasons, in my opinion). I feel W has blinders on about the D process and is "idealizing" it as an escape route from the past me/M without taking a good, hard look at the present me. Any suggestions, thoughts, or ideas from you (or others in the forum) are very welcome. I am hurting big-time but I am also trying not to be motivated by fear.
Sandi2, cannot recall if I asked this in my last post, do you think there is a benefit to me telling my W that I would agree to a S where we would not live under the same roof to give her more space? She could stay in the house and feel what it is like to be D/share the kids and it would give her more of an opportunity to notice my changes and I could continue to work on GAL. Or, is this proposal a desperate move that will push her away? I am trying to find an alternative to the D process/giving up. Thank you.
W is asking if I am still willing to help her financially during the S/start of the D process. I don't mind paying household bills, etc., and kids' expenses, but what about things for her, is that something that should go by the wayside? (The background is that W told me during the early part of the S that she did not feel I supported her enough financially and she was not able to have nice things, clothing, etc., as a result.) Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks.
My W has increasing told me that she is "uncomforable" and "feels I can't breathe" in our current, separated but living under the same roof scenario. (Although she acknowledges that I am usually in another room and not around her.) This came to a head last evening when we were shopping for Christmas presents for the kids. She was distant--both physically and emotionally--the whole time. For the first time since our separation, I felt I did not want to be around her. It still hurt to see in her eyes how much she did not want to be around me but I have been working hard to GAL and am feeling really good about the steps I have taken so being around someone who is not positive/trying to address the problems underlying the situation is not fun. Later, I suggested that we physically S and live apart and create a schedule to share the kids but she did not want to talk about it; in fact, she left the house, saying she was under a lot of pressure. (When she returned, she apologized for "acting that way" but did not discuss the situation further.)
IMO, the current situation is unproductive. I still want our M to work but another feeling is creeping in: maybe it is better if is doesn't given that one of us is working to change and the other seems to be preoccupied with the past (a justification for a D, IMO). Does anyone have any suggestions about how to raise the issue of a physically S in a DB/DR way? (As you can see from the thread, we did this before but stopped for the reasons stated above.) Any advice would be welcome.
If she's not saying much about the sessions, then that could be why, but that's just me.