Can MLC last a short time?

[Jack_Three_Beans]

C,

It may seem like your being attacked, you're really not.

Going in and KNOWING how you felt about porn...yeah this is on him.

Anyone saying, "I'll never lie again." is lying, not on purpose, it's just so unlikely. He may do his best not to lie...it is not in your best interest to believe anyone who says that, not 100%.

"Do these jeans make me look fat?"

..yeah...point made.


I was trying to give you a guy (my) perspective on porn. I admit to not know your whole history when I did.

If he knew this going in? Then again this is on him.

Another guy perspective?

Tears are weapons. We cannot defend against them. I'm not saying don't, we have two choices when we see them, apologize profusely, over and over again and say stupid things: "I'll never lie again."

Or we get upset.

...ok that's most guys. There are other options but mostly standard guys unfamiliar with better communication techniques...those two are the top two.


Remind him of what he said, and ask him how you can help him. That's my advice.
If it is an addiction he'll need help and support.

[irishblessings]

Unfortunately, my former marriage was destroyed by the addictive cycle that sometimes is initiated by the use of pornography. X started with magazines/videos and moved on to full blown sex addiction (prostitutes, everything). In hindsight, I know that through our 30 years together - we fought the ups and downs of an active and healthy sex life that often occurs with 2 working parents. As the kids got older and X confronted about wanting more - I had to take a good look in the mirror and make some changes. At the end of my marriage - the crazy thing was that our sex life had never been better.

C - if you have decided to stay then you have to expect you are going to have some moments that take you down. You will have to catch yourself and find some productive ways to handle it. This concept of detachment truly has a place here. YOU have to take care of YOU - regardless of what he does.

[MrBond]

"Her h needs to help her to recover from the hurt by kindness and sensitivity."

Which he has been doing.

"However C's husband is doing things which many women would be understandably upset by."

Again generalizing. In fact studies have shown more women acting like that. Increase in porn. Increase in infidelity, etc.

"It has little or nothing to do with what is going on in the marital bedroom, and a great deal to do with issues relating to the one looking at porn."

Again, we don't know what it is in this sitch. Did she actually ask him why he was looking at porn rather than making him feel ashamed? I don't know. And we all know that shaming doesn't work. All it does is push the behavior underground.

"The main point is that it is not c's 'fault' that her h is looking at porn, and to suggest that spicing things up in the bedroom will sort it out, is sadly, almost certainly incorrect."

No one said it was 'C's fault. I was just asking the question of what her sex life was like. While she felt used by him, it might have been his only way of connecting with her. Then when that was cut off, he had to find other means. We don't know.

The only person who knows is her H and she has to understand that he has feelings too. The two need to push through the apathy and understand what the other is feeling. And not rely on shame or anger, or embarrasment or whatever. Sweeping things under the rug will only result in the sitch getting worse. We've seen it time and time again on here.

"Thanks once again for getting me. After his ea and HIS decision to stay and HIS promise to stop lying it knocked me back down again."

No one has been ganging up on you and lets face it ... we ALL get you. We've been where you are. Some in worse situations. Far worse. What you need to understand is that others are offering their perspective of what your H might be feeling. If you don't give a crap about his feelings then why pursue the M? I get you're hurting. Again, been there done that with two young kids. It wasn't until I started seeing my W as a human being again with faults as well as me, that I started healing.

Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy?

[Ctflor]

C,

It may seem like your being attacked, you're really not.

Going in and KNOWING how you felt about porn...yeah this is on him.

Anyone saying, "I'll never lie again." is lying, not on purpose, it's just so unlikely. He may do his best not to lie...it is not in your best interest to believe anyone who says that, not 100%.

"Do these jeans make me look fat?"

..yeah...point made.


I was trying to give you a guy (my) perspective on porn. I admit to not know your whole history when I did.

If he knew this going in? Then again this is on him.

Another guy perspective?

Tears are weapons. We cannot defend against them. I'm not saying don't, we have two choices when we see them, apologize profusely, over and over again and say stupid things: "I'll never lie again."

Or we get upset.

...ok that's most guys. There are other options but mostly standard guys unfamiliar with better communication techniques...those two are the top two.


Remind him of what he said, and ask him how you can help him. That's my advice.
If it is an addiction he'll need help and support.

I tend to feel that I'm being over simplified here. When he said, "Never lie again", that was in reference to cheating with other women, and yes, the porn.

My h has offered to put a program on the computer that blocks porn. I will leave that entirely up to him. I'm not going to make that decision for him. If he feels he needs that, then he can do that for him.

A friend of mine told me earlier today, "All men look at porn. ALL. Good luck finding a man that doesn't".

So I guess I am to be the one to compromise on porn too, if I want my M bad enough?

[Ctflor]

"Her h needs to help her to recover from the hurt by kindness and sensitivity."

Which he has been doing.

I don't think that lying and hiding more damaging things to our relationship has been helping me recover.

Again, we don't know what it is in this sitch. Did she actually ask him why he was looking at porn rather than making him feel ashamed? I don't know. And we all know that shaming doesn't work. All it does is push the behavior underground.

Of course I asked, and I got an answer, I understand why, but that doesn't mean I have to be OK with it. I didn't shame him, he has always known my stance on porn, way before we got engaged.

No one said it was 'C's fault. I was just asking the question of what her sex life was like. While she felt used by him, it might have been his only way of connecting with her. Then when that was cut off, he had to find other means. We don't know.

When my h started his EA, he cut off the sex, and it was his decision to keep it that way until he decided to stay. I never cut off intimacy, but I did back off and let him make the decision to be with me. Nothing has been cut off, but I will say I don't really feel like being intimate lately after this latest lie again. I'm a woman, I need there to be a level of trust going. Don't tell me to trust, then lie again a few weeks later when things are starting to get better.

The only person who knows is her H and she has to understand that he has feelings too. The two need to push through the apathy and understand what the other is feeling. And not rely on shame or anger, or embarrasment or whatever. Sweeping things under the rug will only result in the sitch getting worse. We've seen it time and time again on here.

You have truly missed the mark on what kind of a person I am. By your count, I have dragged him out on the front lawn and beat him and shamed him or something. We actually had a calm quiet discussion. Where *I* didn't judge him, I simply asked and reminded him about my stance on porn and what we discussed before marriage. I might be angry and hurt about this inside, and coming here to vent my feelings, but I come here so that I CAN vent those feelings and approach things with my h calmly.

No one has been ganging up on you and lets face it ... we ALL get you. We've been where you are. Some in worse situations. Far worse.

And I have been in the FAR WORSE situation in my first marriage. Domestic abuse, pornography, affairs, etc. So I do understand that while THIS situation may not be as bad as OTHERS, I have been there done that.

What you need to understand is that others are offering their perspective of what your H might be feeling. If you don't give a crap about his feelings then why pursue the M?

Hmm. where did I say I don't care about HIS feelings? Because it has ALWAYS been about my H's feelings. And you know what I have discovered, since discovering DB-ing? That NOTHING has been about me for years, and I'm finally making my life about me too. And that's been scaring the crap out of him. I've always been quiet and meek,too easily accessible, always home, not no more. He's been holding on to me tightly since I'm GAL-ing lately like no tomorrow. he knows that I can survive on my own now. He treated me like I was an option he could take or leave last summer, but I'm not an option no more. I do care about his feelings, but it's high time I also start caring about me, and if that means losing this M, then so be it. I can't live in a relationship that does not make ME happy too. I won't stop GAL-ing either. It feels too good.

I get you're hurting. Again, been there done that with two young kids. It wasn't until I started seeing my W as a human being again with faults as well as me, that I started healing.

Please tell me you're not insinuating that I don't see my husband as human.

Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy?

His porn viewing has nothing to do with right or wrong. He knew before going in that it would not be OK with me. If I want my M, will I compromise on porn? I don't know.

Should he have to compromise on his porn viewing, if he cares about our M?

[Ctflor]

Unfortunately, my former marriage was destroyed by the addictive cycle that sometimes is initiated by the use of pornography. X started with magazines/videos and moved on to full blown sex addiction (prostitutes, everything). In hindsight, I know that through our 30 years together - we fought the ups and downs of an active and healthy sex life that often occurs with 2 working parents. As the kids got older and X confronted about wanting more - I had to take a good look in the mirror and make some changes. At the end of my marriage - the crazy thing was that our sex life had never been better.

C - if you have decided to stay then you have to expect you are going to have some moments that take you down. You will have to catch yourself and find some productive ways to handle it. This concept of detachment truly has a place here. YOU have to take care of YOU - regardless of what he does.

As 25 years has pointed out to me, Angel, Alb, and a few others, he is still very broken and I know this. I just got SO fed up this past week. You are right though, I will probably face more moments ahead. I'm just so tired lately. Sometimes lately I feel like a walk away spouse inside. I just want to be happy. I feel like I'm changing inside. I love my H more than anything... but I'm reaching a point where I need to love me too, and I haven't loved me enough in so long.

I'm sorry you went through all of that. I do relate. (((())))

I was so adamant against porn going into this M due to the porn addiction my first H had. I can understand that men are visual, men enjoying viewing the female body, and the female body doing things, but when it becomes an addiction it's completely different than casual viewing.

My h in his words said, "It's an addiction". When he said, addiction, my red flags raised up sky high.

[Lostforwords]

"His porn viewing has nothing to do with right or wrong. He knew before going in that it would not be OK with me. If I want my M, will I compromise on porn? I don't know.

Should he have to compromise on his porn viewing, if he cares about our M?"

Now you are thinking C. He did know going in that viewing porn was a boundary for you. So he owns that boundary crossing. So how do the two of you work towards getting to a point were he stops crossing that boundary? Or if it works for you C, that the boundary is adjusted slightly? That one is a bit more tricky.

As for the "addiction".....is it really an addiction? Is your husband spending hours on the net viewing porn...etc? Those are big questions in the realm of things. IMHO there is a big difference between 20 minutes a week watching and a compulsion to watch continuously. Can watching 20 minutes a week turn into something more (as exampled on here)? Yes. At the same time that is akin to saying some one who enjoys a glass of wine with dinner is going to become an alcoholic (if we stereotype everyone who watches porn together). It is obvious that you have been hurt by this in the past (as have other ladies on here and for that I apologize). I think a key is remembering that your husband is not your ex-husband. They are different people. Is it very wise to learn from the past...yes it is. At the same time though you can't carry the past into the moment. That really isn't healthy for you.

So how do you get to a proper place that works for C? I like the porn blocking program....but that is a band-aid and not a solution. Sexual addiction is about the compulsion to obtain sexually gratification. Until that compulsion is controlled by the person, it will still exist. My suggestion would be is for you to install (so you know the passwords and he doesn't...that way he can't mess with the computer histories) a web monitoring program. That way you have access to what he is doing, but at the same time he has to work on controlling his compulsion to watch porn.

[Ctflor]

I don't know what constitutes an addiction. After talking with him about it again, he said he "felt a need to go look at least every day, sometimes for an hour or so". In his words he says "It was addicting". It never interfered with our intimacy.

To be honest, I think he's never stopped looking at it at all. I think he's been looking at it throughout our entire marriage. Just a intuitive feeling I got last night.

I don't think putting a porn block on the computer is the answer. It doesn't take away the desire he may have to look, so what's the point? And if he is putting it on, he can take it off... go have a look, then stick it back on again. Having that in place is not going to make me feel better either.

You are right though, I'm trying to keep what I went through with my first marriage separate from this one, but the porn has triggered old stuff to come up.

I feel like I'm having an awakening of my own since I found out about his porn viewing again. I have feelings of re-evaluating my life and what I want for me now. Early into db-ing, and gal-ing, it was not totally for me. I was...... faking it until I make it. But the feelings are real and strong now. I look at my H and I think.... "what do I want?" .... not "What does he want?"

Maybe I'm heading into my selfish phase. Maybe he has triggered something in me to take a look at myself.

I've always been attached to my h, and I have loved him more than anything all of these years. I've been to hell and back with him. There was a time I'd do anything for this man. When I found out about his EA and his lies about what he was doing at work, I didn't want to even leave him then. I wanted to save our marriage.

But now.... I feel pulled in the other direction and it kind of worries me. He has decided he wants me and his family. he sees my gal-ing as "being distant" and you know what he wants now? He wants me to come right back to the place I used to be in.... when he wanted to walk out. Which was, home all the time, clingy, easily accessible, attentive to him all of the time, and most of my life and daily activities centered around him.

Things have changed. I still am there for him, and I'm attentive and I'm connected to him, but I'm not as clingy, and my life is not centered totally on him. he doesn't like these changes so much.

Now that he has come out of "crazy mode" as he has called it, he wants me to be the same .... he wants it as if nothing happened.

I can't go back. I don't want to, and I don't think I can. Once I started my GAL.... I found out that I was bored as heck in my life and very asleep in some areas of just living.

let's put it this way, he had plans to go to another state for a job hunt and rent an apartment for all of us because he wants to leave this state now and work in the bay area. When it came time for him to go, he broke down and said he couldn't go without me.... didn't want to be alone and wanted me to go with him as a family in FEB.

Then he admits that he was getting nervous that I'm gone having so much fun lately (about 2 - 3 times a week with friends and new church friends) that he was worried he would leave, that I would not come there when the time was for me to go!

His MLC turned me from a clingy quiet meek woman into a woman who has started taking charge of her own life again.

[Lostforwords]

"There are three constants in life... change, choice and principles."-Stephen Covey

As I see it...the basic underlayment of what people go through with affairs is just what Covey mentions. We are forced to face change that is beyond our control. We are then faced with the choice on how to respond to these changes. Eventually we have to review the principles that we value in our hearts and help define how we view the world and live our life's.

The thing with principles is that upon our personal principles we build our personal values. As you find yourself in your time of gal'ing you in essence refind your principles. Some may have been lost and some you could have stuck too....in the end though you find them all again. In doing that you reevaluate your values to support those principles.

Right now your husband is fighting with those refound things because he is accustomed to them not being there. They actually probably scare him a lot. You are no longer the clingy wife he envisions, but instead a new found self. The trick for you is defining if your marriage is a principle for you, how you support it in your values, and how to bring what you are becoming to the marriage table as a point of strength and not an area of fearfulness for him.

[irishblessings]

Lostforwords - I love that you brought up the Covey constants. I remember early on in my marriage reading one of his books. In the book, Covey shares that he was counseling a man who said he didn't love his wife anymore. Covey said - "well love her." Man continues - "no, you don't understand - I don't LOVE her anymore." Covey maintains "well - love her." The story continues with Covey's reflection that the ACTION of love is what drives the FEELING of love. You have to make a choice - a decision - a commitment to love.

This was a strong influence on my belief system. - FWIW