Finally confronted H on affair...Now what????

[keep_going]

Hi Rick,

Thanks for the post and encouragement. I have followed your thread and yes - we do have a lot of similarities.

I have one story to share that really struck me about our cultural differences. When my H (then boyfriend) came with me to visit my family in my country, he was in culture shock. He also did not know the language. So during one family reunion (I have a very large and close-knit family there), my H asked "Why is everyone mad and fighting?" The truth is that nobody was. We were all having a great time, being our own loud, argumentative and well... latin.

I never felt my family dynamics or interactions were wrong - and I still don't. FOR MY FAMILY...

BUT - for my H, it was no good. He had a very conflict and violence-filled childhood and any hint of conflict or arguments immediately made him go into protect and aversion mode. And I SHOULD have been more aware and sensitive to this and I wasn't. So live and learn, I guess...

So now I am working hard on changing our communication dynamic and softening my approach with him. It's very hard, because there are anger issues, compounding the cultural differences, but I am aware and willing to change. Taking baby steps. Sometimes one forward and two back, but I won't quit!

If I had to analyze my R with H now from when he left a year ago, we have improved. We don't argue everyday. We have some stretches where there no conflict. I actually think the only time we have real conflicts or arguments are when OW issues arise. And that is my focus now - getting OW to NOT be an issue between us, let it go and detaching.

More work to do for sure. A LOT more...

Thanks again, and congratulations on your progress and your bike ride. It's nice to see you re-discovering things you used to like!

[keep_going]

25

Thanks again for all the great insight and truth.

I am happy with having H come over to my place. It's the best for everyone, and gives me opportunities for GAL and for my R with him anyways. I see where I have been rationalizing and justifying some of my actions and yes - being punitive and controlling. Thanks for pointing out how some of my thoughts were originating from a place of anger and a need to control. Sometimes it's not that easy for me to see that.

I also need to continue with 180s and being consistent with no anger and having a loving approach. I think this is where I failed. You correctly pointed out how he didn't trust my changes - and rightly so, because I have had so many backslides. It's not like I am not changing, but my progress is very very slow because of the backslides and i just need to be consistent FOR A LONG TIME before he can learn to trust me.

I need patience, consistency and am also focusing on letting go of OW triggers. I intellectually get that I cannot control ANY of that, but emotionally I am not detached yet.

This week has been good because she is not in the picture. I am trying to prepare myself for next week. I have decided not to bring the Thanksgiving arrangements up again. H can take kids on Thu and Fri like he asked for and if OW spends the night with them, so be it...

I will plan two full days filled with fun and GAL activities for me. It will be a great opportunity - this is the first time I will have two full days for myself in the last year?

This has been a good week for GAL and being upbeat and positive with H. No arguments, really listening, and he has seen me have fun with the kids, doing things for myself, etc. Baby steps. And LOT's of patience...He has tried to draw me into a couple of arguments, but I have been able to hold my ground. Yesterday I showed a bit of irritability at first when he was being not so nice to me, but I corrected immediately and was able to save the situation.

I realize that my sitch with H will not change any time soon, and I do believe it's an uphill battle. But my H is a great man and I refuse to give up on him. I don't know if there are some MLC issues as well, because he is just not acting as his old self. This very selfish and negative person is the opposite of the man I married. But I also know how much pain I have inflicted in him and how angry he is at me. Yes, he has made the wrong choices given adversity, but hey - I did as well for many years... I hope someday he can change course.

You asked about what his family thinks of all of this.

I am VERY close to them.
H's father was sober the last 10 years of his life before he passed away and he actually came to live with us for a year when his health deteriorated. (My idea.) And I am glad we did it. H and his dad became super close and had a chance to build a R they never had when his dad was drinking. And I know H was always grateful that I opened the doors of our home for this to happen. I adored my FIL. He is an example that people DO change if they want to. And my H used to believe the same, that is why it's so hard for me that he is not giving me that chance to change now...

H's mother is very hurt and upset at him. She thinks that him abandoning his family like this is unacceptable and is very hurt that he is not willing to give our M another shot. She knows nothing about OW and thinks that the reason we are not together is because of my anger. She has asked me to get help and I told her that I am in therapy and am doing all I can to change and do everything H wants from me. But I cannot tell her about OW. So she is confused to say the least. H will need to come clean with her on that.

(H says he has not told his mom about OW because he knows how hurt she will be and he is afraid of her reaction...)

H's sisters and his brother are like my siblings as well. Two of them know about OW - my H told one of them and I told the other one in confidence since she is a very close friend. Nobody agrees with how H is behaving. Besides, he has really isolated himself from all of them - he knows they don't approve of his behavior so far. Ironically, H and I were always the ones to bring the family together (I encouraged it always. For me family is the most important thing and I always organized get-togethers, etc. One of the reasons why his mom loves me so much...)

I believe that when OW comes into the picture there will be major family drama. But I AM STAYING OUT OF IT... I will not be involved cause I don't want H to blame me for his family's reactions.

MIL is hurt cause she wanted me to come over for Thanksgiving (SIL told me this two days ago). But I assume H told her not to invite me because she has not called me.

Plus OW will be in town... I have no idea if H is going to take her to his mom's... I am sure he wants to, but he needs to tell his mom about her first. And SIL said that H and his mom had a huge argument by phone and that he probably could not get to the dating part of the conversation...
All I know is that kids will spend Thanksgiving with H. Hopefully he will still go to his mom's, but who knows at this time.

Bottom line is that that is not my problem. Sooner or later things will come out in the open and I want to be as far away as possible... I am just sad for all the hurt everyone in the family is experiencing because of my H's and I sitch.

In the meantime, I continue working on myself...

[BklynMom]

His stance that you have anger issues become weaker and weaker as time goes on and you get chiller & chiller. He sees it & his family will see it. Good for you.

Sounds like you are in a good place today and thats all you can do is be happy with today. Kiss your beautiful kids and count your blessings.

[keep_going]

Thank you, BM. I wish peace for you as well for these holidays. I will jump to your thread to see how you are doing.

I have been reading posts from the archives... Just following amazing people who have travelled these painful paths we are now in and get to see their growth and strength as they heal.

Here is a post from a woman that I absolutely admire. It talks about forgiveness and empathy:



"If I want to keep my heart open to H, how do I still heal, and do this?
Counselor's answer was you can't.
Move forward 1 hour to church.
I think I have the answer:
Yes you can. Forgiveness and empathy.
An evolved state where you can be happy and healed, and still leave the path home paved with possibilities."

I loved it. I am really focusing on how to continue keeping the hope alive, detach and heal. How to move away from hurt and anger and move into the space I need to be for me, my kids and hopefully the restoration of my marriage.
Forgiveness and empathy...
Will work on that more and more.

And I wanted to share it here as well.

[keep_going]

Friday - H was MIA. I texted him to figure out the weekend arrangements with the kids.

He mentioned he was going to his high school's football game alone. (He usually runs into some classmates there). We used to go together all the time. We are both huge sports fans. I miss sharing that with him. I wished him a good time by text.

Saturday - I texted him with the news that a former UCLA basketball player died. (We also used to share everything related to college sports. He responded saying it was sad news. I asked him about the game. He responded with a couple of details - people he ran into and the score. I told him I was glad he had a good time and ended the exchange.

When I dropped off the kids in the evening, he asked if I could stay with them while he went to get milk. I accepted in a friendly way. I looked nice and asked if I could spare the time, since I was going out (so he did notice I was dressed to go out).

It is sad for me to be in our former home. We remodeled it together, ourselves, no subcontractors. We really did a nice job. That's where we conceived our kids. So many memories. And H has now turned it into the ultimate bachelor pad. New furniture, pictures. Very youthful. And lots of presents from OW... I don't like going back there. It makes me feel like I was replaced. I worked hard with H to build a life together and now someone else is enjoying the fruits of our labor and I am tossed to the side.

I know this self-inflicted, negative thinking is not positive. I am snapping out of it now... I just needed to vent.

Back to exchange with H. He came back from store, thanked me again for staying. We were both friendly - genuinly. Has been like that all week. I said I had to run.

H asked where I was going. I responded I was going out with friends for dinner and then to hang out with my brother who had just arrived to visit from my home country. (H loves my brother. I could tell he was a bit bummed that he doesn't get to see him. He said it was nice we were getting together.)

H has said before about my plans when he sees I am going out and I am not reading too much into it. I khow he wants me to move on and have a life and start dating - he's told me so. I know he is not jealous at all or curious about me, he just wants me to be happy. Maybe to feel less guilty? Who knows and it doesn't matter.

It is nice that we are being friendly. I want him to feel comfortable with me again and for him to start trusting me

[25yearsmlc]

kg,

sounds really good. You have a lot going for you. Even though he SAYS he wants you to move on, and part of him may well mean that, it'll stick in his craw to see all HIS HARD WORK on you, pay off for someone else

just as you feel that way about his OW and the house...

I love the fact that you have not spilled the beans with his family BUT that the mom will soon have to know..one way or the other but NOT from you...excellent

Very good for you in the LONG run...but take the long game picture.

And what's stopping you from dating? I am not suggesting it OR saying not to, but asking.

I DO feel that if you date, the kids are not to be involved until long into the R...or as my mc said,
"when you feel 3/4 of the way to commitment, THEN you introduce them and let the kids have reasonable veto power"...

b/c if the OM does not blend well, for any reason, it's a bad thing to do and no way for it to end well.

But that's not happening now, so we will leave that for another day.

Meanwhile, keep up the good work on YOU and stay upbeat.

I do feel that you are slightly pursuing with the texts, but that's a little thing.

I wish you'd let your h at least THINK you are moving on so he can let that sink in some. Believe me, he'll realize he IS losing something of great value and he will be forced to wonder if he is doing the right thing AND that's not even taking into account the role of OW and his family's likely response. ALL will NOT be well...don't imagine a happy T-day for him, no matter what. He'll be with OW and the kids and NOT twith his family...OR he'll be with all of them and oh the drama....

but what matters really, truly, is what YOU are doing then. ANd that better be having a special loving day for you.

If you keep GAL and doing 180s, I think time is on your side.

I really do.


((( )))

[keep_going]

25

Thanks again for all your encouragement. It means a lot to me and makes me feel validated knowing that someone understands this crazy journey.

You asked about dating... I feel like I am not ready or want to date for two reasons.

1) I am still very much in love with my H. I adore the man I married and want to fight for our M and simply cannot see myself dating or being with someone else, now or ever. He has an amazing soul, a huge and kind heart. We are soul mates, or at least we used to be, even though he now sees OW as his soul mate. My mistake was to not express and treat him like he deserved. I took him for granted and didn't appreciate him and now I am paying for it.

I know I might change my mind in the future, or time and /or my Hs actions might make me change, but right now this is how I feel.

2) I am simply too old-fashioned, I guess. I believe that dating while married, even if separated is cheating. I know it's now acceptable for a lot of people, specially if the separation has been long, but I just don't agree. I see it as part of my promise to my H and my wedding vows. Obviously my H doesn't agree, since he started "dating" three weeks after he left.

I guess I always assumed that we shared the same view on this, but we really never discussed it. That is why it hurt so much when I found out about his dating. To me, h cheated, and he probably felt guilt at some level, since he hid it from me for months.

I do see your point in trying to make him think I am moving on. He can see me doing a lot of things on my own, exercising, working on small projects around the house, having fun with the kids, etc. I definitely am upbeat and focus on my own things with and without the kids when he is around.

I take care of my personal appearance on a daily basis. But when I go out, I dress up, wear nicer make-up and fix my hair differently, I wear high heels and nice perfume, even when my outings are usually just dinner with my girlfriend(s). I appear focused on my outing when we do the kids' exchange and seem excited about it.

He has asked me a few times what my plans are and I am very vague in my responses. I think he asks because he wants me to move on, be happy and date. That way we will be on "equal terms" and he won't feel guilty about his R with OW...

I still feel very much committed to this man and he probably knows that I am not dating - he knows me very well and knows how I feel about doing it while still married. Plus, I am still wearing my wedding and engagement rings. That is probably not good, but I don't know what else to do to make him think I have moved on...

[keep_going]

Tuesday PM - I need some advice from the wise DBers...

I have been doing so well lately with H but today I faced a HUGE challenge with my DBing progress.

He sent me an email about Thanksgiving schedule... OW is coming down, and he wants kids to spend the night with them. He already knows I don't agree.

In his email today, he offered 3 options for how to deal with it. I am quoting him here:

"1. She can sleep in the other bedroom and I won't tell the kids that she's there. She can say goodbye and leave for a little bit when I put the kids to bed and then "arrive at the door" the next morning and the kids won't know she spent the night. As always, I'll crash with the girls and the baby in my room so they get to snuggle up with me.
2. I can find OW a hotel to go to, but this is an extra cost and it's not a nice thing to say to a guest. She would be understanding though if that's what you wanted.
3. The girls sleep at your house all those nights and I take the baby and then pick them up in the mornings, which is also a pain in the aXX because then we'd have to shuttle them around a lot. I don't know if you have plans, but if you do have any specific plans, I guess I can stay with the kids at your house after I put them to bed."

We exchanged a series of emails after that.
As a summary, my reply was:
- I don't agree with option #1, I don't want to lie to my kids. At one point he said "If they're not going to know that she spent the night, why does it matter?" I don't think it's ok to lie as long as you don't get caught and I told him so.
- I also don't agree with #3, because we would have no good answer for the girls explaining why the baby stayed with daddy and they didn't and i also don't want to make distinctions with my children.
- So I told him we should go with option #2 - have OW stay in a hotel. But then H retracted saying he didn't want to do this and spent several emails trying to support his arguments and convince me.

I want to point out that in all the exchanges, we were both very civil and open with the other. I tried to show a lot of DB - validating, listening and being kind and he was doing the same.

In my final email, I was also kind in validating and made sure he knew I was listening to all his arguments and points. And at the end of the email I simply stated my stand and tried to end the conversation, since I felt we were starting to go in circles about it:

" H, You initially suggested getting the hotel room, she is ok with it and I am ok with it, so I thought we were set.
I think I have expressed my view on this whole situation very clearly from the beginning and I don't really want to keep re-hashing it, because we are not going to agree.
Bottom line is I am not ok with exposing our kids to your relationship at this time, much less have them spend the night with her. That is where I stand and I know you don't agree. You are your own person and in the end, you will do what you think you need to do. I have no control over it.
Thanks for taking the time and making the effort to be more open and discuss things with me. I am trying the same and I hope that it shows."

--

I know he will expose them and have them spend the night. But I wanted to make it clear that I don't agree with it in a non-judgemental way and I hope I didn't blow it.

Two hrs. later, H called and I let it go to voicemail.
(I want to mention that in one of his earlier emails today he mentioned he didn't want to deal with this issue in person for fear I would get angry and that is why he sent emails. When he mentioned this, I responded saying I was sorry he felt fearful of my reaction and understood why he felt that way based on my past actions. I told him if I could start over, I would do things differently and that I am working on changing my approach with him so we won't fear my reactions in the future.)

He sounded nervous in his message. He repeated that he wants to have OW stay with him and as well as the baby, and have the girls sleep with me. The hotel idea is no longer an option for him (even though he suggested it). He wants to resolve this issue and finalize pick-up drop off arrangements. He asked for my opinion on this again and that I respond soon.

He is putting this back on me and I don't want to be the one to make the decision for him and get him off the hook. I was very clear on why I didn't agree with this option. Yet, unless I respond favorably, he will start yet another email with arguments to try to convince me. Bottom line is he wants my blessing to appease his guilt and I don't want to give it to him, cause I simply do not agree with this.

Is it that wrong to stand my ground on this? I fear the answer - that this stance is probably not good DBing...

I think I am also upset that H is not man enough to just do whatever he wants w/o putting it back on me...We both know what the outcome will be, he will do whatever he wants, so why pressure me? Is that just to appease his guilt? Find validation from me? If so, for what? What does he care?

I have not responded and don't know how I should. I DON'T want to argue. I want to do the right thing...

Any help will be appreciated.

thanks!

[~¤DG¤~]

Personally, I feel he really didn't give you any options at all.
Yes, he wrote 3 different scenarios, but then tried to argue in the same email, why 2 of the options wouldn't work.

I don't think he had any intention of having OW go to a motel at all, he just wanted to sound like he wants to do the right thing.

Bottom line, when it comes to the best interests of your children, STAND YOUR GROUND. Your H needs to realize that this is confusing times for your kids and what is best for them needs to come first. If he wants to see the kids for the holiday, then OW needs to stay away. If he wants to see OW, then the kids stay with you. It's too soon to do this to them.

Just my opinion of course.

[mishka422]

I hate to say it, but from my experience of WAH's and OW they do whatever they want, they will expose your children to whomever they please, and you really don't have any say in it unless there is a possibility of it endangering your children. I'm not talking about the fact that all of this is going to confuse them and possibly cause mental damage. We're talking about physical harm.

Your H is trying to make you the bad guy. He wants to goad you into saying he can't see his children if he decides to spend the day with OW. Don't fall into that trap. It will only make things worse in the end between you. One more thing he can dangle over you during D proceedings.

I think putting this decision back on him and him alone is exactly what you should do and leave it at that. He has one day to figure it out.

Yes, this is extremely hard, but as you said, you have zero control over what he decides to do. He will face the consequences of his own actions. Maybe not now, but someday.

Go about making your plans, make sure to make them so that they can include the children or not so that when your wishy-washy H finally figures out his own mind you are prepared.

Regardless of what he decides, make sure that you make this time of year special for your children and for you. Leave H to twist in the wind with his uncertainty. Not your problem!