How is it SUPPOSED to work?

[grebjack]

VERY interesting about where you find value in people.

If people are not providing you with some intrinsic value, do they have no value?

I think maybe we're agreeing about this? I am distinguishing what and whom I value from what and whom I love. Value is connected to worth. I value my bank account because it has my money in it. I would be upset to lose it. But I certainly don't love it, and if it didn't have any money in it, I wouldn't value it or be upset to lose it anymore. I value the cashier who just checked me out at the grocery store, because without her I couldn't have bought the food I needed to feed my cats. I don't love her. I'm not really even sure that the cashier wasn't a he - I really wasn't paying attention. She was only valuable to me insofar as she helped me finish my shopping trip and go home. If she had screwed up my order and made it take 40 minutes instead of 2 to get out of the store, I would value her less. Bank account/ cashier, I value them because they are somehow worthy of the value I place upon them, and they can lose that value by ceasing to be worthy.
Becca? I have no idea why I love her. Maybe I just decided to love her because she's a blood relation? Maybe it's just a hormonal thing - she was just the right temperature and the right weight and the right smell to make my mammal brain squirt out a bunch of oxytocin and now I'm hooked. I dunno. But it isn't because she's done something to be worthy, and there isn't anything she can do to make herself no longer worthy. She is and will always be precious simply because she is Becca.

Is a spouse simply someone who helps build the financial coffers, help with mortgage / rent / food, some entertainment value? Is a spouse's purpose solely to procreate? When a spouse no longer provides us with value, what is their purpose in our lives? Can we expect that they will always provide us with tangible value?

I valued my husband for being a reliable roommate. I would have valued him for procreating had we gone that route. But I loved him because, I dunno, we just fit. He understood me. I like who I am when I'm with him. I could imagine growing old with him.
I proposed to him after only a couple weeks of dating. I'd known him in college and I remember him as attractive, as a nice guy, but just a casual friend, so dating felt really different - he was so on his best behavior, charming and funny and considerate. I thought I was just enjoying having him in my life because he was treating me so incredibly well. Then he wrecked my car 1000 miles from home and we were in a rental place and he had maxed out his credit card and couldn't keep the loaner long enough to go back and get the car and he was pissy and obnoxious and anything but at his best behavior and it hit me that I still wanted him in my life.

If people don't love us because we're worthy of their love, why do you suppose people would love us?

I don't know why people love who they love, but it's clear to me it's not about earning that love. One of the most powerful bonds there is is between parents and children and God knows parents don't love their children 'cause the children are so generous to their parents or make their parents' lives so much easier. I believe in unconditional love, a love genuinely not founded on the condition of being worthy, in part because I have experienced it from my parents.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I think one of the places you live in scarcity is time.

Oh, that is for sure true. The number of things I want to get done before tomorrow's fieldwork - before Friday's astronomy club - before the church fair on Saturday - is way more than I can accomplish in the next three days. I'd love to have an extra week, but if I had that, I'd blow a bunch more hours reading these bulletin boards or I'd pickle the last of the green beans, or something, 'cause it's hard to resist something I'd really like to do when my schedule doesn't make it IMPOSSIBLE. (I know this makes me sound about as disciplined as a three-year-old - I'm not a very disciplined person.) My mom is with you - she says I work too hard. I think it's only because what I love to do is what I get paid to do. She put in way more hours being a mother than I put into being a teacher, but she never thought of that as spending too much time on her career, even though being a mom was the career she chose for herself. I don't see what the difference is.

That might even be your chicken exit.

that would be a form of avoidance...

I think I don't understand the difference between a chicken exit and a life skill. I am going to die before I have done all the interesting and fun things I'd like to do, so I fill every minute with activity. That is avoidance of... lost time? I don't like being hungry, so I've learned to cook. That is avoidance of fasting? What is the difference between a chicken exit and simple self-care? I took your original question about chicken exits as meaning what do I do to avoid facing things that I really ought to face.

I really want to get deeper into the concept of being needed.

I'm willing to go there, but I don't think it has much to do with my being here. That is, my husband didn't particularly need me when we were married and I'm sure he doesn't need me now.

And yes, I want to discuss more about "time alone" and how it might be ruling your life.

Again, okay. If you can "cure" me of the solitude-induced catatonia, I'd be cool with that. More time to do other stuff! ;-)

Can you tell me one thing in your life that you found was the most challenging thing for you to do?

I might change my mind after I sleep on it, but at the moment the toughest thing I can think of was moving away from Mikey. I fell in love with him; he didn't fall in love with me. The relationship between the two of us kept us from getting involved with other people, but we were both clear that our relationship wasn't going anywhere. After two years of that limbo, I moved across country to free us from each other. I knew I had to do it but it was really hard to walk away from him, especially since I had to CHOOSE it - he didn't push me away.

Do you ever daydream?

Yeah, working in the garden or taking a walk on a sunny day will sometimes send me off into my own little world. Most common time though is staring out the window on the bus ride home from work. Sometimes I talk to people, sometimes I read, sometimes I nap, but most days I just watch the world go by.

Are you really interested in putting yourself out there to learn something deep about yourself? I have an idea of something for you to try if you are up to it...

Maybe? It depends what you suggest. I'm not up for disfiguring my face to find out how that changes my self-image, but if it's something benign I'll try it.