Feel like I'm living the movie Groundhog Day...

[workinghardguy]

Ok, so my last thread hit 100 posts, time to start anew before it gets locked... Below are all the previous if anyone is looking for some light (and depressing) reading
Workinghardguy - The Prequel
WHG Episode I: The Phantom Spouse
WHG Episode II: The Attack of the WAW Clones
WHG Episode III: Revenge of the WAS

This morning was good. Got back to running again... really fell off the PT bandwagon last week and the eating bandwagon too. One thing I've noticed is that as I've detached and started coming out of my depression over my sitch, I'm eating again. So that's impacting my weight loss goals. So I have to hit the PT hard once again and the run this morning was very much needed. Although when I weighed myself this morning I'm still down another pound to 216; this makes 28 pounds since Aug 7.

W has her first C appointment today. Hoping it goes well for her.

And an ironic side note, my W likes to post quotes as her Facebook status. She spends a lot of time finding and saving quotes. Here is today's quote:

"Letting go doesn't mean that you don't care about someone anymore. It's just realizing that the only person you really have control over is yourself..."

I'm not going to read anything into that, other than maybe she does still care about me somewhere deep down. I just found it oddly ironic since this has become my new mantra and in fact I've said very similar things to her during R talks.

[2thepoint]

Yeah, that quote is interesting isn't it? Maybe one day she'll come to realize that "letting go" can mean something as simple as letting go of the bad aspects of your marriage in favor of a new and stronger commitment.

[workinghardguy]

Journaling... another night, another R/D talk at her initiation. Came home from work and W took SS for a haircut. She had dinner mostly done and I finished it up. We ate as a family and laughed and had a good time. After dinner W did some cleaning while I worked with S on his Christmas list.

We did have a tense exchange about Thanksgiving. Typically we go to her mom's house. My mom moved this way two years ago and last year we had a big thing at our house. But W has to work on Thanksgiving this year and SS and SD will be with their dad. So I said I would take S out to my MIL's house. I'm not a huge fan of her family, but my S loves his cousins and having better interactions with her family is one of my 180s. She got snippy with me and said I didn't have to do that. I kept cool and said I just assumed her mom would want our S there (her mom gets pissed when family isn't there... she'll keep a grudge for the next 3 months that my W isn't there) but that if she doesn't want me to go I don't have to go. Now... I could spend it with my mom and her husband, but frankly as much as my in-laws drive me nuts, my mom's husband drives me nuttier (my mom's a widower). So if I had to pick... well, I'd pick volunteering at the community dinner here in town but after that I'd go to her family's Thanksgiving (plus they have a big screen TV and the Packers are playing after all) We didn't settle the issue so I'm sure we will discuss that again.

After we got kids in bed W and I sat down to start figuring out a Christmas plan. Looking at lists and Black Friday sales, then figuring out how much we are going to spend and looking at our budget.

Somehow... and I wish I could remember how... that quickly led to an R talk. She went down that road and we talked for probably an hour about the state of things while watching the Packers crush the Vikings.

It was a good talk. I didn't cry, though did choke up once or twice. Oh... I remember now... one of her friends' daughters found out about the D and W couldn't figure out how. Though I'm guessing W's friend told her XH who told their D. Anyway, that's what opened the door.

We cleared the air on some things which was good. Things I've said in past R talks that hurt her she brought out. I'm glad she did as I was able to validate and set the record straight. One example is that I said in a very early R talk that I, at times, feel like a glorified babysitter sometimes. I meant this as it relates to her going off on party weekends and I am left with the kids. She took it to mean all times she relies on me, including when she has to work. And that's not at all what I meant.

She established that she wants to break the news to the kids sometime after the holidays... I don't know what that means time-wise exactly. She's scared to do it though as she knows it will hurt them badly.

She also revealed that this whole thing is very painful for her. That she knows she is the one mainly responsible (her words, not mine) for destroying her security, the kids' security, our life together, and the future. That she sat and looked at our marriage photos in the stairwell the other morning and broke down.

It's not like I didn't know, or at least believe that this whole thing hurts her, but I thought it was interesting that she exposed herself like that. I simply validated and told her I didn't believe this didn't hurt her. That I know she hurts and it's part of the experience.

We discussed more logistics stuff. More talk about who would have the house and how that might work. And for anyone who looked at my other thread about child care issues... it was timely. She asked tonight about whether I would want to play a role or if she should look for paid care. I told her I would think about it and that we have time to figure it out. But I appreciate her consideration.

We talked more about the kids and how this might affect them. I simply kept validating and letting her know that I understand where she's at. I did make a point of saying this is not something I agree with, but that I understand she wants it so what will be, will be.

The whole thing was very calm and measured. We even laughed at times and had some levity. She told me that she appreciates that we can do this without yelling, violence, etc... that would scar the kids. I've never been the type to do any of that so I don't know why that would be an issue, but it must be something she is scared of.

She remains committed to her decision though, but again I don't expect any real change until either a) she works with new information/reference frame or b) has a crisis. Actually as we were talking tonight a very introspective comment came into my head. It's a comment that one of my cadets gave me many years back and it is so true... especially in the case of DBing...

"You cannot change the mind of anyone; you can only change the information they are working from." And that is so true here. We cannot change our WAS' minds. We can only change the information, the narrative if you will, and see if that allows them to change their own minds.

Two last things... she did talk tonight about being worried about her drinking. She was drinking heavy this past weekend and that's been a recurring theme the past few weekends. I shared with her that I was worried about her and her increased drinking of late, and that's all I said. She said she knows and needs to do something about it... I think that's been said by many others before.

And in case anyone is wondering how her IC session went... well, it didn't. The UTI she has wiped her out today and she rescheduled for Friday. She did give me the name of who she is seeing, so I still believe that she is going to go... or at least I remain hopeful that she will.

[workinghardguy]

A few other things from last night that I didn't process until this morning...

My W did comment some more on changes. Specifically she really likes my GAL and seeing me get out there and have fun in my life. She also thanked me for putting us on a budget and keeping us to it, even if it makes her angry or frustrated at times that she can't spend what she wants to spend.

She also shared a story from yesterday that had her frustrated and feeling bad (which explains her mood when I got home). I thought it was illustrative, but I simply validated. Originally I was going to be home yesterday when the kids got home from school b/c W was going to be at her C appointment. Since she rescheduled I stayed at work and she was home. SD gets home, walks in the house, sees my W and says "Where's T?" W explains the change. SD gets sad and wonders who will help her with her homework now and proofread her papers? W was quite annoyed by that. Then, a few minutes later SS walks in the house. Same thing..., "Where's T?" W explains. SS asks who's going to help him with his homework. W says she will... "but Mom, this math stuff is pretty hard I think I better wait for T".

I know this bugged my W to no end. At times I think she is jealous that I parent well... or that she doesn't parent all that great lately. I've always had the stance that we're a team and each have our strengths. I'm not goofy guy who dances at the drop of a hat or comes up with silly games and stuff. But I will get the homework done, help the kids stay on task, and work with the kids to help them understand life. I've always thought we work well together that way. Anyway... it drove home for my W, a little bit at least, that SS and SD will not adapt to my absence as cleanly as she thinks.

Lastly, when we were discussing the house I put out there my position that I don't want to be the one leaving if I don't have to. That I don't want to be the one walking out on the kids. It would be one thing if I was the WAS and just walked out, but that's not it. She is free to take the kids with her and leave, I can't stop that, but she can't force me out either without a decree. She got very quiet and thoughtful. Then she said she understood my point. She said that I am probably right... that I don't deserve having the kids think I abandoned them, since I won't be doing it by my choice. She thinks if she takes the kids and leaves it will increase their anger and resentment towards her. She doesn't want that, but I told her that is something her decisions are creating. I will not own that for her.

[workinghardguy]

Journaling... nothing much yesterday. W worked and so did I. W didn't get home until kids' bedtime. We put them down and I immediately went into the basement to lift weights for an hour. Said nothing to her other than to tell her there was supper left still in the crockpot.

Came upstairs from lifting weights and, like clockwork, W strikes up a conversation. Tells me stories about her day and I keep my 180 of listening. I struggle on whether this is the right thing to do... or if I should be more dark and cut her off then go do my own thing. But actually listening, and not multi-tasking while listening, is a major 180 for me. So for now I will keep doing that. Should be we split up I certainly won't have to worry about that and it will have a different dynamic.

This morning I was on my way to drop S at school and saw a van in a driveway. Realized it was my W's very close friend who is stopping in town for a few weeks before her, her husband, and their four kids move to Japan for three years (H is in the Army). She saw me and waved so I stopped and said hi. I know her and like her (I drove the bus for her bachelorette party), and she gave me a big hug. I know that she is aware of what's going on, but I was upbeat and positive.

My W will spend a lot of time with this friend over the next few weeks as my W is very sad about the friend leaving for three years. I even told my W the other night to not worry about the babysitter thing we've discussed while her friend is in town. I know how much these two weeks mean to my W and so if she needs me to help out just let me know. I felt ok offering this as I would do this even if we were apart I think.

But my friend's W is interesting... she's still married. Her and her H have been together for 15 years probably and have four kids. They really aren't great together but have found a way. They've survived an A by her, an A by him, and then the H having a crack addiction. Three years ago, the H got addicted to crack (I know because I remember searching the woods for him in the dark after he fled their house in the middle of the night). H's solution to his crack addiction was to enlist in the Army.

So... with two kids at home and a W he enlisted and went off to the Army. My w's friend stayed with him. Not that she didn't think about leaving, but she didn't leave. She moved with him and then moved again. Then H was supposed to be assigned to training that would have set their family up well, but right before training H got a DUI which blew everything up.

So now the family has to go to Japan for three years instead of North Carolina. W had the option to move back to Wisconsin and send H off to Japan alone, but she refused. She is moving herself and all four kids to Japan to keep the family together.

I look at that in contrast to the "adversity" my W has faced (which is certainly no where near what her friend has faced... not even in the same solar system) and wonder what the hell the difference is between the two of them...

[2thepoint]

I think that people have different levels of tolerance and capacity for love, hurt, anger, etc.

Your W can work extremely long hours and the stress that comes with that but can't deal with the stress of the relationship.

Her friend on the other hand seems to have a capacity for managing BS and still manages to keep it together.

If there is a bright spot regarding W's friend visiting, it may come in the form of a realization from your W that crap! If my friend can hold things together through thick and thin, then maybe I can too?

Wishing you all the best!

[Telemark]

I look at that in contrast to the "adversity" my W has faced (which is certainly no where near what her friend has faced... not even in the same solar system) and wonder what the hell the difference is between the two of them...

Amen to that, brother. I know couples who have gone through terrible troubles and adversity...some if it their doing, some of it simply the hand of fate...but they hung in there with each other and are still together. My W and I had our share of troubles but nothing like these other couples, yet she recounts our marriage as one long trip through hell.

My daughter and I were having dinner one night and talking about the situation. She observed that men tend to look back at relationships with a more benign view...sure, we remember the problems and mistakes but we also remember the good parts, which usually far outnumbered the bad parts. Women, however, tend to be more critical and dwell on the problems without acknowledging the good times. These "memories" form the foundation of their actions when they decide to walk.

WHG, for many months I've beat myself up and down for the mistakes I made; words I said, actions I took and immature behaviors I displayed to my wife. But none of it, in my opinion, justified what she did. The WAS always takes the coward's way out UNLESS there is abuse present in the marriage; then it's a new game. But there was no abuse with us; just problems that arise in any relationship.

And I suspect that is true for most of us who are here. Did we have arguments? Of course. Differences? Sure. Hurt feelings? Yes. Is that justification for walking out on your spouse,your children, your family and even giving your heart and soul to someone else because it's new and fresh and exciting? No way.

Like jbnati has often observed, though, I'd rather be us than them.

You're on a good path, whg. Stay on it and keep swimming to the far shore without looking back.

[workinghardguy]

Thanks TM...

One thing that is odd for my sitch is that my W isn't all about how terrible our M has been. Yes, she will tell me that she has been unhappy for a very long time. Yes, she says the standard lines of:

• We should never have gotten married.
• I don't know if I've ever loved you
• I made a mistake getting married.
• We're too different to make this work

and so on... but she will readily admit that we've had good times. That we've had fun, we're good parents, and we work well together.

So it's never been entirely that she's fleeing ME to go to someone else per se. It's that she's fleeing marriage and commitment for... this is where I stumble. I've never really figured out what she's fleeing to. Freedom maybe... the ability to date other men perhaps... finding herself, whatever that means...

I just don't really know which is what has perplexed me. And I don't think she knows entirely either. She has told me that she feels fundamentally flawed inside of herself and doesn't feel she can be anyone's spouse or mate until she resolves that.

[jbnati]

Telemark, thanks for the shout out. You busted me lurking.

One thing that is odd for my sitch is that my W isn't all about how terrible our M has been. Yes, she will tell me that she has been unhappy for a very long time. Yes, she says the standard lines of:

• We should never have gotten married.
• I don't know if I've ever loved you
• I made a mistake getting married.
• We're too different to make this work

and so on... but she will readily admit that we've had good times. That we've had fun, we're good parents, and we work well together.

So it's never been entirely that she's fleeing ME to go to someone else per se. It's that she's fleeing marriage and commitment for... this is where I stumble. I've never really figured out what she's fleeing to. Freedom maybe... the ability to date other men perhaps... finding herself, whatever that means...

I just don't really know which is what has perplexed me. And I don't think she knows entirely either. She has told me that she feels fundamentally flawed inside of herself and doesn't feel she can be anyone's spouse or mate until she resolves that.

Holy crap, WHG! I think you just described my W to a T!

[workinghardguy]

Well then JB I feel doubly sorry for you! because I know exactly what you're going through...

So then do you have any sense or feel that, should your W ever go "find herself" and fix those issues she says are debilitating her, she would want to be M again? And would you want to go back?