What do I do next? Part 2

[luvhurts49]

Oh, I think I've got the whole low self-esteem thing down pat. I have no doubt that my W needed me as much as I needed her, at the time. Today however, it's obvious that I need her more.

To be honest, I'm just not ready to even look at what is out there. I am so in love with my W that it just doesn't feel right to me. Yes, I know she's having an A, but that's her, not me. I'm still entitled to feel how I want to.

[luvhurts49]

Wanted to add one more thing about my confrontation with my W regarding the OM over the weekend. After my little speech, my W accused me of having an anger problem and that I constantly argued with her and yelled at her and the kids.

Now I will admit that me and my W did argue more that normal before she left, but I think a lot of that was her. As far as yelling at her or the kids, no way. I would occasionally raise my voice in order to be heard over the noise, but not yell at them directly.

I do not believe that I have an anger problem. I have never even thought about hitting her, the kids, or anyone else during any kind of argument. I do not yell at her or the kids (see above) and I most certainly never call her or the kids names or berate them in any fashion.

I'm just wondering if these types of comments from my W are her way of deflecting or trying to make me feel bad when in reality it is her that has done our M wrong by having an A with OM. Thoughts or comments please.

[Grace_O]

LH,

I know a man that has mentioned that on occasion his W will ask him to stop "yelling". This is a pretty solid couple (as far as any of us can know) and he is always surprised when she says this (I have been in their company when this has happened). It's a difference of perspective.

They have 3 young kids and it can get pretty loud. His responses were, to the effect of "I'm not upset. I didn't realize I'd raised my voice. Or, just trying to talk over the noise". This quashes everything. They both "get" what's happening.

Whether you yell or not, your W sees you as doing so. Telling her you don't yell, doesn't help. you could ask her to let you know when this happens, but I'm not sure if it will fly right now.

I know money is tight. Ialso know that a great way to build self-esteem is through action. How about volunteering? It can be social, you'll definately meet new people and it's a way to put your life in perspective.

[luvhurts49]

I know that I do have a problem with my volume, but it usually is only when I am talking, not yelling and I have friends and family that will say something when I get a little to loud and I'll turn it down a bit.

I also know I have a problem with my tone of voice as well. People will often misinterpret what I am saying because of the tone of voice I use. I have always told everyone, including my W, that if you have any questions regarding something I said, please ask as I would rather have you question something I said than to take it the wrong way.

I'm still a little curious what peoples thoughts are on the possibility of my W deflecting comments that she makes to cover up for her own guilt because of A with OM.

[Grace_O]

It could be guilt or it could be something she just got tired of.

What do the different answers mean to you, and how would you respond to her differently based on whethere it's guilt or not?

[luvhurts49]

Well, if it's guilt, then at least there is some emotion there for me other than hatred. I know there isn't anything I can do to convince her of anything, yet I still wait for some kind of positive sign from her--anything really.

[Accuray]

LH,

Yes, you won't know if your W really always thought you yelled at her and the kids, or if she has convinced herself that you did to give her more reason for leaving. It doesn't matter that much, because now that's her perception.

I'm sure when she told you that, the old you would have argued and tried to convince her that you were right, that you did not yell or have an anger problem, or that she was the one with the anger problem. I'm sure the new you said "I'm sorry you feel that way, that's not the way I remember it, but I understand why that would be hard on you." (or something similarly non-argumentative) Got to love those 180's!

Nothing you can do about it now except for 180 going forward. My DB coach said that if my W recasts history, that I should not agree with her. i.e. if W says "we had a bad marriage" I should say "I don't think our marriage was bad". The line there is between stating your belief versus arguing about hers. State your belief, leave it there. Acknowledge your W's feelings on the matter.

Raising your voice is often construed as yelling or angry, even if you are only trying to be heard. The other approach is to remain silent until the background noise quiets down. When you're silent but look like you want to say something, it doesn't take people long to notice and get the point. When I'm talking to my wife and my kids come running in and start talking, I wait until they finish their sentence, tell them that my wife and I are talking right now, and they have to wait until we're done -- we don't respond to them when they interrupt. I'm not going to yell over them.

One other interesting thing is that arguing in a marriage isn't necessarily a bad thing. There was an article in the paper a couple weekends ago about the fact that the most successful marriages often DO include arguments. The push and pull indicates that both people are holding onto their identities, and the "make up" period after an argument is an important bonding device. If you argue and then make up it demonstrates caring, you're engaged in the relationship.

Obviously this requires healthy skills for arguing (being respectful, being logical, not getting angry, etc.), and also requires that both parties be willing to make up at some point later rather than stewing in a sea of resentment as often happens.

I thought it was an interesting point as my W and I almost never argued historically, and would just keep everything bottled up.

--Accuray

[Grace_O]

I see your point.

I would argue that hatred is better than indifference. At lease hatred is passionate, indifference is devoid of any emotion. Just a thought.

It can take alot of time and patience to see positives come into play. Just be careful that your expectations don't jump up at any sign of a positive. It sux to crash.

[MrBond]

She's deflecting. She's saying that she's justified in doing what she's doing because you did this and that. It happens all the time.

When she starts going off on things that you know are not true, hold up a hand and tell her that while she has a right to say whatever she wants to, you don't have to stay there and listen to things that aren't true. And that you will be willing to talk when things have calmed down. Then just walk.

[luvhurts49]

Well I think that most of our conversations are probably done at this point and I'm not to keen on talking with her anytime soon either. The things she is doing are despicable. She has lied to everybody (me, our kids, family, friends, etc.) since the beginning and this whole things was planned many months in advance (99% sure of this).

Thankfully, I got my kids for the next 2 days so at least I can spend my time with them instead of pondering over my W. According to my oldest, my W is acting very weird lately and she's been asking him some questions that I think are inappropriate during this stage of our pending D.

Late last night, I did talk to SIL on the phone for a couple of hours and she claims that she didn't know about my W's A. According to my SIL, my W doesn't talk to her about us because my SIL talks to me and my W doesn't want put her in the middle of things which is weird since my W is the one that told me to talk to her sister in the first place. Anyway, I don't think that my W talks to her about us because she doesn't want to have to lie to her sister. Still not 100% convinced that SIL didn't know though.

Looks like today is gonna be a good day to vent.