Alcoholic H wants D part 2.....

[jon2911]

Hey itm, sorry to read the latest developments since Halloween, but it sounds like you are very strong, even if it doesn't feel like it. Hang in there!

[lifejustgothard2]

Hi! Life here. Got your post. Good to hear from you. THis whole things stinks and I am sorry you are going through it.
I hope you have a great time with your boys!
We did this too this summer. H had no idea we were gone as he never contacted us. We 9 hours a way for a week and he didn't know. Rather sad. We had a blast!! Even though we did miss him. I kept telling the kids-we are making new memories!
Hate the alcohol. My H is with OW who drinks as much if not more. Why would he want to come home?
He says he doesn't have a problem. I have learned till HE sees it-nothing will change.
Hang in there. Lets talk soon.

[Danl]

one last thing I would hope to share with you itm,

if his deal with ow is a sort of '13th.-step rendezvous' type thing, the whole structure of that 'relationship' is based on a compromised foundation. It's based on the shifting sands of a moral conflict.. temporarily at someone else's expense.

If I'm anywhere near target.. [and I'd rather be wrong, but..] then, hopefully you will gain a certain objectivity about his behavior.

Please suffer me just a little longer in order to share an example of what I'm trying to say.

A very dear friend of mine died in July of '07 from an apparent alcohol/narcotic toxicity. A year or two prior to his death, we were talking on the phone. He said something like, "Man you know me, I wouldn't be married to a junkie woman if I weren't such a da-- junkie myself."

We didn't talk about it much in later years; but I knew he never really got over his first wife..

he died ostracized by the fairly affluent family of his second wife.. they changed his only son's last name and successfully estranged the boy from his father.. permanently.

more often than than what a person might think, an addict is hated by both himself, and the people who once said, "I love you".. to his grave

He was a guy that children and dogs and old people [and when we were young, women] loved. I kid you not.

[imthemom]

Hi everyone..back from our camping trip and had a good time. It was a little difficult for me as that was the first time I had been in our trailer and camp spot since last year and it was sad to remember all the good times we had and sleep in the bed that we slept in together...but i forced those thoughts out of my head and had a good time with the boys and there friends. It rained most of the weekend so we watched movies and ate junk food and just hung out. I was proud that I did that trip alone, one my own and showed the boys that we could do the things we have always done before.

Found out that our house finally sold (H has been living in it free for 2 yrs while it was up for short sale) and H was told he has to be out by the end of the month. this has brought about several conversations about where he will live and how hard it is going to be on him financially now. after all "theres going to be child support and alimoni now".....I have stayed silent and not commented at all when this is said..even when comments were made about how he will have to cut back on the things like storing the trailer and cable etc....In my head I thought "yep, been there, still doing that" but did not comment at all. then there was the "ill probabley end up living in the trailer for awhile to get by"........instead of getting angry at the guilt he is trying to put on my it actually made me giggle...sooo dramatic...He will be fine, Ive been doing it with kids and all he has to worry about is himself.

Going to another Co parenting session tonight...he has not seen S14 at all this week and let me know that he will be working this weekend so he will not have him then either...not sure how this co parenting thing is working out but I will just make sure we are busy this weekend and S14 is occupied.

@Danl...honestly i dont know anything about OW..i am assuming everything that I have said, which I should not do. I dont know were they met or how long that has been going on. Im not even sure if he is still seeing her....it has never been discussed.
sometime I want to ask and then I think whats the point...do I really want to know???
What I dont understand is how he can say our relationship is to hard to work out yet he has it in him, in the middle of all that is going on with us, the house, our son etc...to start a new relationship.

[25yearsmlc]

Hi everyone..back from our camping trip and had a good time. It was a little difficult for me as that was the first time I had been in our trailer and camp spot since last year and it was sad to remember all the good times we had and sleep in the bed that we slept in together...but i forced those thoughts out of my head and had a good time with the boys and there friends.

Good for you!! Well done.

It rained most of the weekend so we watched movies and ate junk food and just hung out. I was proud that I did that trip alone, one my own and showed the boys that we could do the things we have always done before.

Exactly...and what's junk food for, if not rainy days "camping"?


Found out that our house finally sold (H has been living in it free for 2 yrs while it was up for short sale)


Naturally, I assume he's been saving a ton of money, since he's spent nothing on mortgage or rent and due the bank/taxpayer's paying his bills, he should be well ahead of the "game", right??


and H was told he has to be out by the end of the month. this has brought about several conversations about where he will live and how hard it is going to be on him financially now.

you mean that he thought 2 years of free rent wasn't enough? He's SHOCKED that he's being told to leave?

and He's made zero preparations for it? Literally, NO PLANS?

Wow...I'm sorry but that's just sickening and lazy and irresponsible. HE really is clueless as to who is paying for HIM, isn't he? To the rest of the world, he's getting off really light and I'll say no more on that issue for now....sheesh!!


all "theres going to be child support and alimoni now".

there was always supposed to be & it's called providing for your family!!! This is not new! OR was the enabling so deeply ingrained that it is new to HIM??? Geez...wake up buddy...


....I have stayed silent and not commented at all when this is said..even when comments were made about how he will have to cut back on the things like storing the trailer and cable etc

then you're a better woman than me....why hasn't he sold the trailer OR LIVED IN IT and what's the cable for and OMG OMG OMG....it's like he's 12 and on his own the first time ever....


....In my head I thought "yep, been there, still doing that" but did not comment at all. then there was the "ill probabley end up living in the trailer for awhile to get by"

yes he will, and or he should have been before now, so the taxpayers didn't pay FOR HIS irresponsibility... AND OR he can get a better job. What does he do for money now? How does he hold a job down? Dare I ask?

........instead of getting angry at the guilt he is trying to put on my it actually made me giggle...sooo dramatic...He will be fine, Ive been doing it with kids and all he has to worry about is himself.


I probably would giggle and just ask, "just so I know I'm getting it straight", are YOU trying to make ME feel bad about YOUR choices, And how hard it'll be for you to live the way ME and our kids have been living already? Is that what you're implying b/c I really want to make sure I'm clear..."

Is that what's going on b/c if it is, that IS laughable...and tragic and enraging but of those emotions, I pick laughter as the most pleasant....


Going to another Co parenting session tonight...he has not seen S14 at all this week and let me know that he will be working this weekend so he will not have him then either...not sure how this co parenting thing is working out but I will just make sure we are busy this weekend and S14 is occupied.

and Document!!

@Danl...honestly i dont know anything about OW..i am assuming everything that I have said, which I should not do. I dont know were they met or how long that has been going on. Im not even sure if he is still seeing her....it has never been discussed.
sometime I want to ask and then I think whats the point...do I really want to know???


there's NO point in this! Seriously, there is NO POINT IN THAT....

First, Your h isn't thinking straight and his self absorbed talking shows that. He's self centered to a crazy level an d his choices are blatantly poor ones, NOT even in his selfish interests.

Who lives rent free for 2 YEARS and does nothing to prepare for the eventuality of living on his own again?

He's supposed to be an adult but here he is homeless of his own volition and literally by choice, if you think about it.

So who cares who he chooses IF he chooses an OW? For all we know, she glommed onto him thinking he had money, OOOPS and will dump him soon OR she's as bad off as he is and they're both nuts...
Second, why not spend YOUR Energy on YOUR LIFE and your kid's??

For now, he's just not worth the time and effort it takes to try and help him as if you could.

Besides, You need to let him hit rock bottom so he can maybe get himself out of his horribly deep rut.



What I dont understand is how he can say our relationship is to hard to work out yet he has it in him, in the middle of all that is going on with us, the house, our son etc...to start a new relationship.

The First question is why YOU want a r with him?


Consider this... other than the feeling of you being rejected by HIM, what's the attraction of this man anyhow?

Be objective for 5 minutes and detach for 5 minutes and tell me

what is it about THIS man and his terrible choices and character flaws and alcoholism, that make you want him in your children's lives and yours?

You were very furious at him not too long ago, so what's changed in HIM that makes him so appealing now?

I think you focus way too much on the rejection you feel, and [i]maybe you confuse that with meaning you love him and belong together...[/i]

second,

the reality is his relationship with you DOES take more work

b/c he'd have to overcome his past mistakes-HUGE--and he does not have full amnesia. Neither do you.

He fears you won't forgive him and he knows you have a lot of anger...AND even if you did seem to forgive him, the kids and he and everyone else, all know that he's made a huge mess of his life and hurt the finances of the family as well.

It's a lot to overcome. And for a man who has hidden from his fears with booze, that's too much scary stuff to deal with, let alone sober.

So, back to YOU-- and what YOU are doing for YOUR LIFE and your kids...like GAL and the 180s...


What are those like today?

[Valeska19]

Amen 25!!

itm - There is a long journey that your H has to take. Even though he has stopped drinking, his journey is far from over. He has to re-train everything about himself. How he handles people, his problems, his relationships, his fears.. EVERYTHING.

It's ALOT of work and it will take ALOT of time.

In the same way - you have a long journey to take. Living with an addict affects the family. It's like we all get sick. Over time you have learned how handle him, his problems, your problems, your fears. You put his addiction at the center of your life as well.

You too will have to re-learn alot and this too will take ALOT of work and ALOT of time.

All you can focus on is you now. Realize how the addiction affected you. Work to change that. Work to get healthy.

I look back and am kinda thankful that my w decided to stop talking to me.. it hurt like hell and I wouldn't wish it on anybody... but I had NO choice but to work on me. I couldn't be her enabler, I couldn't be her savior.. I just had to figure out me.

I learned that although my wife was partly responsible, I was allowing to take all of bad mojo her and I created into other relationships. To my friends, in my work. When I realized that.. realized that in I had to do the work.. It's when I really understood that no matter how much I wanted my marriage.. I wanted to be healthy too! It's when I learned that a marriage with her or anybody else isn't really possible (or at least enjoyable) until I made some serious changes.

Did that stop me getting angry and hurt at her for being an addict.. no. Did it mean I had to give up on my marriage - not really.

I just had to change my perspective a bit. I had to admit that even though I wasn't the addict... I allowed the addiction to change me. I allowed my w to change me for the worse. And because I allowed it.. I was the only one who could change it.

And when I shifted to that perspective... my w's actions and behaviors had very little to do with it anymore.

You can get there too. You can do this. You are strong enough to be honest with yourself and with your H. It will hurt, but I promise you.. it will be worth it!

((( )))

[imthemom]

My H does have a job and makes very good money...on top of that he seldom works less then 60 hrs a week and gets paid well in over time..granted that is not all the time but it is 80% of the time.
When I moved out we agreed on 300 a week since my paycheck just covered my rent, and i have lived very conservativly since. I have a son with special needs so cannot work anymore then I do now. I did not want to make it difficult on him, yes I enabled. when I left he had to call and ask what a voided check was, he has never handled anything for himself until the last 2 years. I did everything. He literally handed his check to me every friday and i took care of it all.
and no, I guess he did not prepare or save for this...but he says giving me that money every week has made that hard for him. thats a joke...his checks are at least 5 times that amount, he could have saved quite a bit. And I have made due on that money, maybe twice i have asked for more help and that is it, I have scraped and gone without.
so no...i dont feel sorry for him now...and it makes me frustrated that he is resenting the money he has to give to help support his son when his son is with me 98% of the time.
as far as what you asked 25..you have started me thinking...what is it about him????? I will ponder and get back to you...
my 180s are the obviouse fact that i didnt respond to his whining about money..pat on the back and the camping trip!!
GALing has not been good but am focusing on that this week, going to Divorce support group on Wed. out with friends on Sat night...

[25yearsmlc]

also,

pardon me if my numbers are way off for you, once upon a time We were very poor, (as in, WELL below the poverty level) and for many YEARS...

and now we're well off. So I've been poor...

But when you say your h makes a "good living" AND that you have a special needs kid AND

that he is paying you 1200 a month, is that supposed to be a lot?

I'm Not thinking it's much, especially for a special needs kid.

Who came up with that number? If he makes over $60k, you will get more than than from him in court, imo.

He's getting off easy, again....and yes, you are playing a role in that. And btw, it's not your money to refuse or give away. It belongs to your child, so remember that...

I knew a mother of 5 who had raised her kids in utter squalor, living in a fetid trailer park in a bad neighborhood with crummy schools...only 2 of the kids finished high school, and one began but dropped out of college. He enlisted in the service.

3 of them dropped out of high school and never finished. Jail, rehab, unemployment, abusive relationships, the whole nine yards...that's what 3 of her kids ended up with and one other is in a "bad way"....so one made it...

the mother told me once, with great pride, that she "never took a cent from her ex h" and that she had "raised those kids ALL ON HER OWN" and

when I asked her why she never took a cent from the ex h, she said

"b/c I didn't want to take a penny from that SOB
AND he never got to see the kids either"....(gee, she sure showed him!)

so..she put her foolish pride ahead of the needs of her children, never occurred to her that it wasn't HER money to turn down. She never saw a problem with that. So, enough said.

So now, what are YOU going to do?

[imthemom]

just to clarify and not that it matters but my son who has special needs is not the S14 that we had together...he is a SS and is 21 with the cognitive level of about an 11-12 yr old at best, but was raised by my H since the age of 2.

The 1200 was an amount we agreed upon together when I first moved out 2 yrs ago. He was not working alot of OT at the time and we had the understanding that 300 a week would be ok but if he worked his OT he would help more..that never happened. and yes he makes well over 60k a year.
and yes he will be giving me alot more then that according to my L...and he knows this now..which is what is bringing on all the whining...
Its funny how when we were married and my ex would not pay his child support, all the horrible things he said and how appalled he was at that..and now I look at him and think, Really?? your gonna be that guy to??? it always come down to money...

Co parenting session was interesting tonight..cant even get into it because im still proscessing it but my eyes are slowly being opened i think...

[imthemom]

ok, regarding the Co Parenting session last night:
We had used up my sessions and H had agreed to use his EAP for more sessions, that in its self alone is surpriseing to me..we are there to work on co parenting but he has done nothing that she has suggested and i havent really seen to much come out of the sessions yet but am being patient.
This being the first of his sessions she was focusing on what he wanted to acomplish, and asked alot of questions of him, because he said he would like to learn to communicate with me better.
she got into why he wanted a D as his explanation has not been clear, he says his sobriety is to important and he cannot go back to the relationship the way it was. she has suggested that it can be worked on and not be the same especially since there is so much history and a child involved. she told him that his explanation did not make since.
They started talking about how we are getting along so well now and he said he had seen changes in me..specifically my anger, and she even brought up the fact that I did not explode and rage when i caught him with OW. He agreed and said he was impressed with that..????????????
She then asked him (which made me really uncomfortable) if he would consider working on this and putting D on hold and he got really angry and defensive and actually raised his voice and said we have nothing in commen but our S and that was it. He then started the whole I drank because of her anger and nagging and blaming me for his drinking ...which honestly, i am getting really sick of hearing. through out this whole exchange i am sitting and not saying a word. I was very aware that this was not a time for me to interject or say anything, i just listened.
at that point our time is up and he then lets her know that by the way, my EAP will pay for 3 more sessions under not only him but for me also since we are still married. ???????
I dont understand why he would want to keep going when he gets so angry and then does nothing she suggests???????
and then as we leave he is laughing and saying how that woman is so irritating and teasing me about it....????????
I am feeling like i really dont want to go back, i cant sit there and stay silent while he blames his drinking on me over and over and has not one time taken accountability for anything..even when he is asked why he is not spending time with his son he says i dont have an answer for that.....
it is beyone frustrating!!!!!!
oh, and 25 i am still pondering your previouse post....why DO i want a R with this person????????