W told me she is done & doesn't love me anymore.

[Snowman]

Ok, here is a rough draft of my message to my W. Please edit it or let me know what I should change or leave out:

I wanted to email you to express my thoughts and feelings. I have thought about our last interaction and the things that have been shared in the past. It seems to me that you feel pressure from the church and others to do what they think is right. If you want to drink and have other issues with the church that I’m unaware I would like to understand it. I can understand the pressure from the church as I have felt it too and I can understand the choice to drink as I also tried it. I don’t hold it against you and want to support you in things that you would like to do. I have learned through this that you have felt like you have done things that everyone else wants you to do. I want to support you in your goals and things you want to do as long as you would like the same for me.

I want to support you in school so you can reach this goal as I know it is important to you. I know I didn’t show my support in the right way but that truly is because I know you are such a good mother to our son and I wanted you to be there for him. It was never a selfish thing because I didn’t want you to be successful or thought my job/career was more important than you. I have learned what is most important to me and that is my family and Ian having that most time with his parents as possible. I regret how things have been I the past but all I can do is live in the present and let you know that I’m willing to support our family in the decisions that we make.

I’m so grateful for the beautiful son that we have brought into the world and the opportunity as a father I have had to raise him. I’m grateful for the great mother that you are and the great care that you have shown our son. I know how much you love kids and they are drawn to you because you are so good with them. I’m thankful for this and know I have learned a lot from your children skills.

I know I have not shown the interest or care for various things in our lives but especially in social interactions but that truly is not who I am. I truly love to meet new people and learn new things just like the next person. I know I have seemed closed in the aspect but I truly have not meet your new friends that seem to be your coworkers just as you don’t really know my coworkers. As for your family I know I have not open my heart to them like I should have but I truly do love them and want to continue growing my relationship with them. My family feels that they have not got to know the real you either and wants to get to know the real you. Everyone does love you and wants to the best for you and our family not from a church perspective but for us as a family.

I don’t want to focus on all the negative things of the past rather on the entire positive that we have had. I know we have things to work on and I have seen in my own self reflection the things I need to change and want to change but I want to do this together. I apologize for my negative reactions through this and want you to know that you are so important to me. I do care about how you feel and understand the lack of support that you have felt. I’m here for you and support you through this.

[Snowman]

Well this is what I said to my W in an email today. What do you think?

Sorry for the person I had become. I have done a lot of self reflection with my counselor and my self and I’m not happy with the person I was, I complained a lot and was too controlling. I wanted to apologize for that and say I support you. I have learned what is most important to me and that is my family, both yours and mine.

I don’t want you to do things because the church or someone else wants you to. I want you to do something because you want to because it is important to you or whatever the reason is. That’s why I do things. Sorry I didn’t mean for this to be a long detailed email, just want to share my feelings that have been bouncing around in my head/heart this weekend.

She said back: I appreciate your apology and then requested something from the house for our son.

I have chosen to be happy today as I know it is my decision and the only thing I can control. I'm not sure where things are going in my stitch but I know that I will be happy because I want to be. I want to take the higher road because thats who I am and who I want to be. Being angry or sad does me no good and has no affect on my WAW so why be angry.

What do people think about buying Christmas presents for my W in this situation? My take is that I want to take the higher road again and have no expectations for reciprication. I know it will make me feel good which I think is all that really matters.

[MrBond]

Bad move with the letter. You shouldn't have apologized for everything. Let's face it. Your W had her faults too. To dump all the blame onto yourself just made you look weak and in her head, it justifies everything she thought about you.

After reading your message, why would your W want to go back to you? You pretty much said you were a flawed person and that was that. Do you think that would actually make you seem attractive to your W? Sorry for the 2x4 but there's a reason why DB says to limit communications with the WAS. This being the main one.

"I know it will make me feel good which I think is all that really matters."

So are you saying that it doesn't matter what your W thinks? That's why you're in the predicament you're in. Would you rather do this and jeopardize getting M together? Did you actually read DR or DB? Stick to those rules.

[Valeska19]

Snow,
I've been reading your sitch.. but have never posted.

I agree with Mr. Bond about the letter. If you really look at it, it was really about you and no so much about w.

That is not attractive.

I'm so glad you are deciding to take the high road.. It is by far the better one to take.. however becareful with all decisions.

I remember when it was my w's b-day. I really wanted to contact her and thought at first I was taking the high road by wishing her happy bday even though I was hurting.

It was about me.

Instead, I didn't. She had clearly indicated that she didn't want me in her life so I took the high road and respected her wishes.

It didn't feel good for me.. it sukked honestly.. but it was the right thing to do.

I feel the same way about Christmas. I know I could buy my w presents w/o expectations... however the high road is to respect her wish to not spend Christmas with me at all.. so no gifts.

Remember.. if the high road felt good... everyone would do.. so if the decision isn't hurting you at all... you should probably look to see if it truly is the "high road".

My humble .02

[wayt4hr]

i have done the high road for four years. I will tell you when you do this they will think of you, and will try to find out what you are doing. they will try to make contact sometime, not right at first but it will happen close to it. they will think of you..

[Snowman]

Mr. Bond, I didn't apologize for everything I apologized for what I honestly feel are my flaws. My W has already heard from me and others what issues she needs to work on but she has chosen to not to address them at this point. I do have my flaws and never claimed I was a perfect person. I have read DB & DR but it has been a while since I have reviewed it. My wife decided on getting a D but really has not taken much action. I do think what my W thinks matters but is doing something that is nice ok as well. My wife has not told me what matters on top of that. All she has done is done things for herself. I'm not trying to be weak by any means but my wife thinks that I was always controlling over her so me recognizing should not be considered weak. I get the point Mr. Bond but the limited communication has not got me more progress than not. Sorry for breaking the rules but saying nothing has not worked either. I will try to run things by the board before I say something.

Valeska19
I understand the perspective on the presents even though my wife complained to me that I never bought her good presents and that she always had to find them for herself like I never bought her something good. I guess I will have to give the presents a 2nd thought but she has not told me she does not want presents or whatever. I guess I was looking at it from just the Christmas perspective but I will think about what is right.

I guess I need to once again bust out DR and re-read the LRT. I do want to be happy and not have this for ever limbo situation consume me. Thanks for the help and keep it coming. Sometimes everyone needs a 2x4 up to the head.

[MrBond]

"I apologized for what I honestly feel are my flaws."

First off, what you think are "flaws" that pushed your relationship over the edge may not be the same "flaws" your wife sees.

Second, even if they were, you don't point them out. You're trying to get your W to stop concentrating on them remember?

Third, She wasn't perfect either. However, by pointing out your "flaws" you've made her think - "yeah why was I with you for so long? I could do so much better because there's nothing wrong with me."

You can try to justify it as much as you want, but that's how it goes. I saw it in my sitch and tons of others.

"Sorry for breaking the rules but saying nothing has not worked either. "

There are no "rules" you do what works. The problem is that people don't often have the patience to wait for their actions to take root. How long were you actually in no contact with her? 1 day? 1 week? In the book it says to wait two weeks before changing strategies. Have you done that?

In any event, you really shouldn't send out messages like that IMHO.

[Snowman]

Mr. Bond

What I think my flaws are may not be what my W thinks may be a true statement but I think I have a pretty good feel that they are. I will not send a message like that again to her but I do think these things are one of the major issues that she had with me.

I agree that I'm not trying to get her to focus on my flaws and I more than agree she is not perfect. She has a lot to work on and has been told by the various people she has visited with the same along with her counselor. She ever went to a psychiatrist that she claims cleared her even though I don't think she was forthright about everything nor did she keep her promise to take her mom with her to the appointments.

As far as the rules goes I went weeks without saying anything and trying the LRT with no real changes or reaction from my W although if I looked deeper I may have seen some positive signs but I can't think of them now if there were some. My W dropped the bomb and really has not made any changes in her path from her initial bomb. I think she has continued further decisions in reinforcing her decision. She has asked someone to store a washer and dryer, talked to a friend that is a real estate agent which is crazy, signed up for school like she is going own her own and needs to get a better job to support herself, continues to take stuff from our home and push away my family as well as hers. She avoids the elephant in the room even with her own family like there is nothing going on. She is trying to ignore the problem like it is going to go away or something. Everyone including me don't understand what she wants or what really bothers her. She has been a mystery for all and she knows her communication skills are horrible as she has admitted it. She says we have falling out love and then focuses on random negative things in the past to justify it and acts like we never had anything positive which is typical I know.

I get back to working on me and GALing. I will try to watch for signs of improvement from her as well. Man this roller coaster is fun.

[MrBond]

"but I think I have a pretty good feel that they are."

Unless you are your W, you don't have a clue. Stop the mindreading or it will drive you crazy.

"but I do think these things are one of the major issues that she had with me."

Did you know that whenever you say the word "but" it invalidates everything you said before it? Like..."I know I shouldn't do it BUT it was our anniversary". Stop saying 'but'. It's a good rule when talking to your WAS too.

"As far as the rules goes I went weeks without saying anything and trying the LRT with no real changes or reaction from my W although if I looked deeper I may have seen some positive signs but I can't think of them now if there were some."

For one thing, the 'rules' are not set in stone. The primary lesson in DB is to do what works. If something works that is contrary to the 'rules', then do it.

I don't think you understand what the LRT is. LRT is when you tell your spouse that you are perfectly fine with the D and can see that your R was messed up. You haven't done that.

"but I can't think of them now if there were some."

There's that word 'but' again. The changes your W will show aren't going to be major earthshattering ones. It could be as simple as her saying 'good morning' to you after not saying it for a long time. All of those interactions start writing them down so you can build on those small positives. Your goal is to increase those small positive interactions with her until they build like an avalanche. It only takes a pebble to get things started.

"I THINK she has continued further decisions in..."
"She avoids the elephant in the room"
"She is trying to ignore the problem"
"Everyone including me don't understand what she wants or what really bothers her."

Again, more mindreading. You aren't her so really don't know if she's "avoiding" the issue. She might just feel suffocated and needs to go out to get some clarity. Concentrate on yourself and your plans.

[workinghardguy]

Snowman... I wouldnt say she is ignoring the problem... Because it is not a problem for her, it's what she wants. You are looking at this brough your eyes... Try it through hers. Try looking at your dynamic from the view of someone who has already left he m.