I need advice for dealing with a WAW

[SamuelH]

Hello. My W and I will have been married for 1 year on November 20th 2011. Unfortunately, she walked out and moved to her hometown on October 13th (almost a month ago). I am 25 and my W is 24.

Before I really begin I should mention that my W's biological mother threatened to kill her when she was 8 years old and abandoned her for the Children's Aid Society to come pick her up. She was also sexually abused by her biological father around age 10.

Things started getting bad back in August, my W was losing her job and I guess there was pressure for her to find another one. She began working multiple jobs, unfortunately the payment for these jobs was 'under the table' and I was very skeptical that they would pay out. I saw these jobs as 'pie in the sky' and a waste of money in gas for our car.

We got into arguments about whether she should work these jobs and they would usually go like so:
W: "Well, I'm an adult and I can work any job I want and do not have to answer to you!"
Me: "Well that's a really crappy attitude for a married person. Why don't we get a D and you can do that all you want!"

This argument happened at least twice. Unfortunately, I had no idea of the serious implications of what I said. I never wanted a D, I just wanted my W to think about her attitude and behavior. I think it is because of her emotional trauma from the past that she took what I said so seriously.

I noticed right away a change in my W. She became very cold and distant, almost overnight. She resisted my touch to the point of not even wanting to hold hands. This scared me very much and so I suggested we see a marriage counselor. She initialy resisted because when she suggested seeing a counselor a few weeks before, I shot down the idea. We did see a marriage counselor in the beginning of September though.

One thing that came out in the counselling is that my wife said that after I talked about getting a D then she gave up on the marriage right then and there. I think (perhaps wrongly so) that she saw my statement as a sign that I was going to abandon her and that she had to protect herself and abandon me first. I have never shared this thought with her. Still, we continued to go for counseling. I tried to do more things with my W, going for walks, playing card games, dice games, etc.

I thought the counselling was helping, there seemed to be more communication between us and things, although still very rough at times seemed to gradually get better. There were times when she say or do something very self centered though... things like "Maybe I want to be single." Or "I don't know if I want to be married"

My W moved out while I was at work and did not leave a note or any other communication what she was doing. She has not spoken to me at all (not a single word) since moving out, however her foster parents in her hometown let me know that she came to visit them and she is staying with one of her female friends but they do not know who or where. She sent back her keys to the house and car, as well as credit cards and bank cards in the mail.

I maintain conversation with my W's foster parents (who I'll refer to as in-laws or ILs) who see my W every few days when she comes to visit them. The ILs tell me that my W does not talk about us or what happened to make her leave, nor does she talk about what she is going to do or wants. I've explained to them what happened and they agree that my W probably has a deep fear of abandonment.

About two weeks after leaving my W told my ILs that she needed time and space to clear her head before she makes a decision and that she wants it to be "her decision". She said that she "feels lost" and "doesn't know who she is anymore" and "needs to find herself". She also told them that she felt like God had abandoned her. (We are both Christian, well I'm not sure about her anymore). At this point I sent my W a short letter explaining that I love her very much and miss her a lot and that she can call me whenever she is ready to talk. I also told her that praying to God and talking to our pastor helped me quite a lot when I was feeling down and maybe she should do the same in her hometown.

I was down in her hometown last week on my way to visit some relatives and I stopped by my ILs to chat. The ILs told me that she had not yet read my letter because she was not there to pick it up but she would be there later that evening. I left a housekey, a book I had read (Hope for the Separated), some flowers (her favorite kind), $100, some candy and her benefits card (spousal benefits from where I work).

I spoke to my ILs yesterday who said that my W took everything I gave her and really liked the flowers and candy. She read my letter, but did not say anything about it. (She took it with her though). Also revealed yesterday was that her grand-father suffered a stroke on Monday and is in critical condition -- he is not expected to survive.

One more thing to add... my W blocked me on Facebook the day she left, I created a new Facebook account so I was able to see her (limited) profile. Since she has been gone she has been slowly updating her profile (first she changed her current city & mailing address), then she changed her last name to her maiden name a few days after. I've been assured by her sister (who still lives in the same town as me, and has also not heard anything from my W since she left) that my W changing her name on Facebook does not necessarily mean that she is looking for a D, but just that she is trying to get herself to a state of stability.

I have since stopped trying to see her Facebook profile as well as contacting her parent's every couple of days as it is too much of an emotional roller-coaster for me. My mother-in-law has told me that she will call me once a week to let me know what is happening. The last time I spoke to my mother in law was yesterday. I repeated the same thing I've said from day one of my W leaving "I love her, I miss her, the door is always open for her to come back and we can work on things."

I read "Hope for the Separated" and am currently reading DB and I understand that step one is always 'improve yourself' and I am working on that... but if my wife is in a different town and refusing to talk to me... how will she see that change?

I desperately need advice on what I should be doing... I feel lost and confused and have no idea what to do next aside from prayer...

AFAIK neither of us have spoken to a L yet.

[dbmod]

^

[sandi2]

Let me be the first to welcome you to our community here at DB. You will get lots of support here if you'll post often and keep us updated about your stitch.

I hope you'll read Divorce Remedy.

Even though the stories here begin to sound a lot alike, they still are individual and yours is that very example. My heart felt heavy reading about your young bride and the horrible things she suffered at the hands of her biological parents. It sounds, however, that she has a good relationships with her foster parents. How does she feel about her foster father?

I'm sure you've been told that the first year of M can be tough. Couples can say things out of their own insecurities, and they don't even mean it, but it's the wrong thing to say. I think that's what happened in your case.

Your W has good reason to not have very high opinion of men. She was forever scared by the one who should have been her protector. Must be awful hard to establish trust. That's one reason I asked about her foster dad and how she felt toward him.

This could take some time for her to feel she could trust you not to hurt her emotionally. She may build a wall around herself trying to keep you out. The foster parents my be your only link to her, so I hope you can stay on good terms there. They must like you if they are willing to talk to you and keep you updated.

For now, finish your books and make some personal goals. Did she ever complain about any particular fault in you? If it's something you can change and improve, then start working on it and mold that into a positive pattern.

Give her some time without you near her. It will be difficult, but try your best not to press her. I know you must fear losing her, but she has to make the decision to trust you again. Hopefully, you will be able to have another shot at a life-long R with her. The one thing you never do is threaten. She needs to believe you aren't going anywhere and you are trustworthy for her heart.

You won't find that advice too much here on the board, b/c in most cases the LBH is dealing with a WAW who is involved in an A. In those circumstances, things would need to be handled, IMHO, a bit differently than yours.

Have you been back to see the MC since she left?

[SamuelH]

Let me be the first to welcome you to our community here at DB. You will get lots of support here if you'll post often and keep us updated about your stitch.

Thanks. I will certainly try to keep things updated. I guess it's called 'journaling' here right?

I hope you'll read Divorce Remedy.

I plan on reading it as soon as I finish with DB. I've also found a lot of clips of Michele on Youtube that I have been watching.

How does she feel about her foster father?

She seems to have a really good relationship with him. I think she is probably closer to him than her foster mom, although she is still quite close to her too. She was never actually adopted by them, but she chose to legally change her last name to theirs after turning 18.

I'm sure you've been told that the first year of M can be tough. Couples can say things out of their own insecurities, and they don't even mean it, but it's the wrong thing to say. I think that's what happened in your case.

Definitely, I've been told the first 2 years are the hardest, I had no idea that they would be this hard for us though...

Your W has good reason to not have very high opinion of men. She was forever scared by the one who should have been her protector. Must be awful hard to establish trust. That's one reason I asked about her foster dad and how she felt toward him.

It's funny that you mention that. My W would always be like "Heh MEN!" when a man said something she didn't agree with or like. If something around the house broke she'd just huff and say "Well, it was obviously made by a man!". She once confided in me that it was mostly a front though.

This could take some time for her to feel she could trust you not to hurt her emotionally. She may build a wall around herself trying to keep you out. The foster parents my be your only link to her, so I hope you can stay on good terms there. They must like you if they are willing to talk to you and keep you updated.

My W confided in me a month or so before she left that my mentioning the D word scared her very much and caused her to build a wall. I asked her what it would take for the wall to come down and she said "Time". She also said she didn't know if she could ever forgive me completely for what I said. As for my relationship with her foster parents... Yeah, I guess I do have a pretty good one. I think they immediately recognized that I loved her even before we were married and that I only want what is best for her.

For now, finish your books and make some personal goals. Did she ever complain about any particular fault in you? If it's something you can change and improve, then start working on it and mold that into a positive pattern.

Yeah, I've started exercising and watching what I eat. I suppose I also need a way to figure out how to not say things I don't mean in an argument . The thing is, I get that no matter what, I'll be improving myself and getting my mind off things, but how is my wife to know about these improvements when she doesn't even want to talk to me? That is one reason why I am leery of spending the money to book appointments with a professional DBing coach. Perhaps I should wait until after communication has been opened between my W and I before booking the coachings?

Give her some time without you near her. It will be difficult, but try your best not to press her. I know you must fear losing her, but she has to make the decision to trust you again. Hopefully, you will be able to have another shot at a life-long R with her. The one thing you never do is threaten. She needs to believe you aren't going anywhere and you are trustworthy for her heart.

One thing that my counselor said that he felt was very important was to not let our anniversary pass without sending something. He thinks it's important that I send her a gift to symbolize that I still think we are married, even though we are apart. He also feels that it will help her build that trust again and show that the marriage is a stable and safe place for her to come back to.

You won't find that advice too much here on the board, b/c in most cases the LBH is dealing with a WAW who is involved in an A. In those circumstances, things would need to be handled, IMHO, a bit differently than yours.

Well I didn't mention this before, but we actually had an old guy friend of hers renting our basement (they never dated or anything). The original idea was that he would work at one of these jobs my W was working at and would pay us rent to help out with our financial situation. Unfortunately he wasn't even in our basement 3 weeks when the job went bust and thus he was unemployed and unable to pay rent. My W was spending all day with him while I was at work, and all evening down there with him as well. I asked her several times if there was anything I should be concerned about and she got quite offended that I didn't trust her and said they were "just friends" and that's it! I told her I believed her that there was no affair going on, but I was still jealous of the amount of time she was spending with him. Our marriage counselor told us that we had to get him out of our basement and back where he came from (about 30 minutes outside my W's hometown) as soon as possible in order for us to more effectively work on our R. He was actually supposed to move out the day after my W moved out, but instead they moved out together (she rented a van while I was at work). Apparently she dropped him off at his mother's house and continued on to her home town to stay at a girlfriend's. My father in law has been to his house and told me that my W is definitely not there. So I guess, there is another man involved, but I still to this day do not believe there was an affair going on (maybe an emotional one, but not a physical one).

Have you been back to see the MC since she left?

We were actually seeing 3 counselors We were seeing the Reverend at my church, and the pastor and his wife at 'her' church (the church she went to before switching to mine after we were married). I keep regular contact with all 3 and have been getting advice from them. Their advice is mostly to keep praying, give my W her space and maintain contact with my in-laws on a weekly basis.

I'll actually seem them all tomorrow.

[sandi2]

I completely agree with the C about the guy friend being gone for good! Those type of situations are never good for a young couple (or old couple either, realy). I read from another author how couples need to "affair proof" their M's. Even though there is always somebody of the opposite sex out there, as a M couple....you have to do what you can to protect your MR from an A. And, I am strongly against having anyone living under the same roof with a young M couple......and especially relatives. It invites trouble.

but how is my wife to know about these improvements when she doesn't even want to talk to me?

The other people (like her foster parents) will be saying positive things about you. Don't ask them to tell her you've changed, just let the self-improvement speak for itself.

You're going to get tired of hearing us remind you that she's got to have time, but that's what it takes.....and especially with her problems toward men. I think she may have been "expecting" the M to fail, and when you threatened D.....she thought, "that figues, it's just like a man". Her respect, or lack of it, for men is pretty low on the list. It's going to be extremely important for her to respect you as a man, first, and her H, second.
Since both of you are Christians, then I'm sure she's been taught by her Pastor how God designed the roles of the man & woman in the MR. Have you ever noticed that the scripture tells the man to "love" his W, but it tells the W to "respect" her H. The King James Version uses the word "submit" but it means to show respect. That's the only way a man can truly be the leader & protector over his family. Without the W's respect, he cannot succeed in leadership with his children or the M. You have a serious responsibility.

Guess I get carried away. So, you get two sermons today.

I believe in the power of prayer. Don't give up.

BTW, you are getting advice from several sources. As long as it seems to "agree" with each other, then I think it's okay. But if you begin getting confused by different advice...then you will need to narrow that down. You'll even find different opinions here on the board. If you get confused by some of it, then tell us and we'll see if we can help straighten it out.

((hugs))

[Accuray]

Samuel,

One thing to be careful of is not using your inlaws against your W. Your W views them as a "safe place", and if she feels you are trying to influence them to advocate for you, she may resent that. General DB advice is not to involve the W's family at all.

That said, as Sandi pointed out your situation is different than many, and maybe your W likes keeping that line of communication open and knowing you are "there" via the inlaws.

That's something you'll need to assess for yourself. Just be aware that it generally isn't good for the inlaws to advocate on your behalf, or for W to feel that you are campaigning for your way with them.

WRT your point on the DB coach, believe me, those sessions are often more for you and how you feel about yourself than for your relationship. They can really help you if you get to feeling down, feel this is "all your fault", etc. It sounds like you have a good support network going, but don't think you have to have active communication with the W to make the DB coach worthwhile.

My final observation is that your W seems to have a real issue with feeling controlled -- there may be a hair trigger there. In your post, you were pressuring her to get a job, then evaluating the kinds of jobs she was taking, and effectively trying to enforce your will. Why do you feel it was important to you that W get the kind of job you thought was appropriate?

If W's under the table jobs weren't going to pay, why didn't you think that W could figure that out or handle that situation on her own?

In terms of a 180, that may be one to work on. Instead of evaluating and controlling, work on listening and supporting. Be OK with yourself, even if W isn't doing what you think she should. (i.e. I'm OK with myself whether you take a bad job or not. I would like for you to take a job that is going to reward your abilities appropriately, but whatever job you decide to take, I will support you)

To some degree, if W has control issues, you will need to learn to surrender to her bad decisions (in your view), rather than try to control or influence them. Then, be there to pick up the pieces if things go wrong without an "I told you so".

This will be hard, but it will be worth it!

Accuray

[SamuelH]

Thank you so much for your advice sandi2 and Accuracy.

Since both of you are Christians, then I'm sure she's been taught by her Pastor how God designed the roles of the man & woman in the MR. Have you ever noticed that the scripture tells the man to "love" his W, but it tells the W to "respect" her H.

Indeed. Before we got married we had to take a marriage preparation course and this was one of the topics we discussed. I recall my W telling me that she would find it very hard to 'submit'. She may have even said flat out that she wouldn't... I can't recall clearly. We also learned this from reading a book called 'Love & Respect'. I think she was more into the message when it is stated as 'respect' instead of 'submit'. We had actually read about half the book before we were married but stopped reading it because everything seemed to be going fine at the time. When we hit our hit rough patch I asked proposed reading it again together, but she refused so I started re-reading it. She took it with her when she left which I was kind of surprised at given that only weeks before she said she had absolutely no interest in reading it.

I believe in the power of prayer. Don't give up.

Yeah, I find myself praying almost constantly, about everything now. So if nothing else comes out of this, at least my R with God has been strengthened.

One thing to be careful of is not using your inlaws against your W. Your W views them as a "safe place", and if she feels you are trying to influence them to advocate for you, she may resent that. General DB advice is not to involve the W's family at all.

That said, as Sandi pointed out your situation is different than many, and maybe your W likes keeping that line of communication open and knowing you are "there" via the inlaws.

That's something you'll need to assess for yourself. Just be aware that it generally isn't good for the inlaws to advocate on your behalf, or for W to feel that you are campaigning for your way with them.

Hmm. This is a good point. I've decided to stop calling my in-laws and they've agreed to call me once a week to just to keep me filled in on what is going on. Also, both my mother-in-law and I agree that going to church would be a very healthy thing for my W to do right now. The pastor at my mother-in-law's church is also a pretty good counselor apparently and my mother-in-law told me she would try and get my W to talk to him. I don't think my W has gone yet and the few times I asked my mother-in-law about it the response was something along the lines of "I don't want to push her"

WRT your point on the DB coach, believe me, those sessions are often more for you and how you feel about yourself than for your relationship. They can really help you if you get to feeling down, feel this is "all your fault", etc. It sounds like you have a good support network going, but don't think you have to have active communication with the W to make the DB coach worthwhile.

That makes sense.

My final observation is that your W seems to have a real issue with feeling controlled -- there may be a hair trigger there. In your post, you were pressuring her to get a job, then evaluating the kinds of jobs she was taking, and effectively trying to enforce your will. Why do you feel it was important to you that W get the kind of job you thought was appropriate?

If W's under the table jobs weren't going to pay, why didn't you think that W could figure that out or handle that situation on her own?

I don't think I directly pressured my W to find another job. She knew that I could not support our current lifestyle on just my income alone and I think she felt pressure from that. I don't recall ever once telling my W "You need to get another job". She just started looking for jobs when the store she was working for was about to close for good.

And to be honest, only one of three jobs that she found after her store closed was under the table (I was tired before and didn't feel like differentiating them... my bad).

The first job that she had I was completely on board with actually. She was basically getting paid to phone people and ask for donations of clothing and small household items. The pay was direct deposited into our account, so I know she got at least two paychecks from them. I noticed that they stopped depositing her paychecks after the second one and when I asked her about it she said she wasn't sure why and would have to go to the office and ask them why. It was over a month later that she found out that they laid her off.

Her second job was working for her brother as a driver. This was the under the table job. Not only did I not trust her brother to run his business correctly and pay my W, but the hours were also ridiculous... basically 8:00PM until 3:00AM. To make things worse, she would come home at 3:00AM and then head downstairs and hang out with her friend before coming upstairs to bed. Also, I tried telling her that our car insurance did not cover that and that we could lose everything if there was an accident. She refused to listen to me however. (I believe it was this issue that caused our argument which caused me to mention a D which caused her to shut down). Sure enough, her brother did not pay her and wound up losing the business. I never once said "I told you so"

The third job was essentially being an insurance sales-person. I was all for this job too, except for the fact that in order to start selling insurance (and thus start collecting money) she had to pass a financial exam. While she was studying for this exam, she was expected to job shadow another insurance sales-person. At first I was hesitant about this job because I was not sure if she could pass the exam (I never told her I felt this). I realized that if was something she wanted to do then I would do whatever I could to help her succeed. This was the job that she was working when she left. I talked to the people at the office and they said they were very skeptical that she would pass the exam without a good supporting home office behind her. I don't know if she still intends to do this job or not.

In terms of a 180, that may be one to work on. Instead of evaluating and controlling, work on listening and supporting. Be OK with yourself, even if W isn't doing what you think she should. (i.e. I'm OK with myself whether you take a bad job or not. I would like for you to take a job that is going to reward your abilities appropriately, but whatever job you decide to take, I will support you)

This is very good advice. I was wondering what I could to for a 180 if I get the chance.

To some degree, if W has control issues, you will need to learn to surrender to her bad decisions (in your view), rather than try to control or influence them. Then, be there to pick up the pieces if things go wrong without an "I told you so".

After my W left, lots of friends and family have since told me that they found my W to be very controlling. She would make lots of decisions without even asking my opinion. Usually I wouldn't mind, but on some occasions it would cause conflicts.

This will be hard, but it will be worth it!

I truly agree. I see this as being an experience that can greatly strengthen our marriage if it's handled properly and we both learn from it. I know that I have already learned so much and see so many areas that I can improve my R with my W. I'm really hoping that I get a chance to put into practice all the things I've learned.

One more question... Is it a good idea to send an anniversary gift to my W? My C says it's important and I really want to, but at the same time, I don't want to make any mistakes and set things back farther. I was also pondering if I should include a letter with the gift but I think it may be best to just keep things brief and to the point so she doesn't feel overwhelmed/pressured.

[sandi2]

If my father had abused me, then I'm sure I would have a big problem being told to "submit" to my H. (Actually, I had a problem with that word, anyhow. I was very relieved when I found out that the better translation of the Greek word was really "respect".) I can also understand why your W would try to control her surroundings and anything in her life. It could be rather scary for her when she started feeling control taken away from her. All of that can be related to her childhood experiences.

Anniversary gift.....maybe a little sentimental one. Let me think about it. Did you have anything in mind?

But definetely no letter!! That will ruin everything!

[SamuelH]

If my father had abused me, then I'm sure I would have a big problem being told to "submit" to my H. (Actually, I had a problem with that word, anyhow. I was very relieved when I found out that the better translation of the Greek word was really "respect".) I can also understand why your W would try to control her surroundings and anything in her life. It could be rather scary for her when she started feeling control taken away from her. All of that can be related to her childhood experiences.

To be honest, I felt a bit uncomfortable with the whole 'submit' language as well.

Anniversary gift.....maybe a little sentimental one. Let me think about it. Did you have anything in mind?

Yes. I bought her a turquoise pendant and matching turquoise earings (blue is her favorite colour). I also got her a cute/funny card (we both really enjoy cute/humorous cards) and signed it:

"To my beautiful wife on our first Anniversary, Love Always, Sam"

I was thinking about adding: "P.S: Hope you like the pendant and earings, I saw them and instantly pictured how good they would look worn by you" but I was afraid that may be too over the top.

What do you think?

But definetely no letter!! That will ruin everything!

Heh heh heh alright I get it! No letter (I wasn't really planning on one anyways)

[SamuelH]

So I sent the anniversary gift yesterday. I included only the gift and a card. I did not add the post-script like I mentioned in my last reply.

I discovered from our MC on Monday that my W had told her sister that she stopped believing in God. My sister in law then contacted our MC who then tried to reach out to my W, but my W was silent on that issue. This all took place back in mid September. I'm assuming my W had actually abandoned God in August, but I don't know for sure. At any rate, this was news to me on Sunday.

I also got some very sad news. Yesterday my great-grandfather passed away, he was 96. I called my MIL who said she would let my W know. I talked with my MIL a bit about how I just learned that my wife didn't believe in God.

My MIL said she understands how my W is feeling; Back in 2005 my MIL's youngest son (biological son) took his own life at age 18. My MIL said that for a while she didn't believe in God but that she eventually came around and reestablished her belief.

She feels that the same thing happened with my W when I 'asked' for a D. I immediately stuck up for myself and said "I never 'asked for a divorce'. I only commented that with the attitude and lifestyle she was intent on living, we may as well get a divorce. It may be parsing words, but I feel like there is a difference."

My MIL thinks that it will take time for my W to reach a decision. She told me "Hopefully that decision is one you are happy with." She also said she will tell my W that "I'd like her to remain in my life". I felt that was a little too vague... I wanted to say "No, tell her I'd like her to remain my wife!" but I held my tongue. When I spoke to my MCs about this they felt that either way given the context of what is happening, it would be clear that my intent is for her to remain my W.

This whole situation really [censored]. I find myself constantly missing everything about my W. I find myself depressed thinking about the future and all the things we planned. The children we may never have, the good times we might never share.