Alcoholic H wants D part 2.....

[imthemom]

Daily venting session...
I know its only Wed. but this week seems to have gotten a little easier for me..not sure if its because he has been around a lot this week or if im just adapting... He was at the house last night for a few minutes to drop of the trailer for the camping trip I have planned for the boys. I dont take that for anything then what it is, he was not overly helpfull (didnt fill propain or plug it in so frig could charge, ive never done it but I know it needs to be done) just told me what to do and left. I smiled and said thanks for bringing it up.
We had a sitch with S14 again last night...He came out of his room after H left and had tears in his eyes, said my grades are crap. (i already knew) You can see his grades on line and he had looked them up. NOT PRETTY...hes failing 4 classes. we sat on th couch and talked and got into what is bothering him. He brought up his D and said he wasnt going to be happy until we were together again. I talked about how somethings are out of his control and he has to be able to recognize that and except things he cannot change. told him his D and I both love him very much and want him to be happy and do well...backing up...when H left he really didnt say goodby to me, we were leaving at the same time to go meet friends for pizza and S14 said "by dad" so H said good by..my son then said "by honey, I love you" as if H should have said that to me and then said "by honey i love you to" as if I should say that to H....it was so sad. so in our conversation he said if you want me to be happy you should talk to dad and tell him we want to move back with him. Then he said he thought D was upset because I didnt invite him to go camping and thats why he didnt say goodby to me, and that I should ask him to come...I dont even know what to say when he says things like that. in my head im thinking really???? Im the bad guy ????? but I guess we do what we do to protect our kids.
It is so hard to hear him say that and with him being 14 it makes it harder to hide things from him. I told him that what is going on between his D and I has nothing to do with him and that we loved him blah blah blah....he is heart broken and I cant stand to see him like that.
H is not concerned at all...says he will be fine. and of course im left here worrying about what this is doing to my S14....

[mishka422]

Take heart IMT. My son was 13 when his dad left. He started with being protective of me, then he moved to being angry toward me and indirectly blaming my actions (even though he knew his dad moved in with OW and had met on her several occasions), and then to acceptance of the situation. It took a lot of patience on my side and time.

All you can do is be very loving toward him, give him as much attention as possible without coddling him, and avoid any discussion of what your H is doing. If your son wants to know what is going on with his dad, he will have to ask him directly.

At 14 he is becoming world-wise, it's sad but it is what it is.
You can't hide things from him or you risk losing his trust, but you also don't need to lay everything bare for him.

Like we've said before, just reiterating that you both love him and want the very best for him can calm the waters.

Does your S14 have a C?

[imthemom]

Thanks Mishka, i guess i could tell him that when he does ask me..but saying you will have to ask your dad that sounds to me like I am blameing him (H)...and for some reason I dont feel comfortable with that..????? I dont want him to hate his father and would be just as devistated as I think he would if he found out about OW.

This morning I am having some desperate need to write H a letter or send him a message...I have not done this since he dropped the D bomb..I did go to the house and try to talk him out of it one time in the first few days after but was completley rejected.
for the sake of my sanity and in hopes of stopping myself from making a complete idiot out of myself I am going to write it and post it here, just to get it out ....feel free to scroll over it cus its not pretty..

J,
I saw a truck that was identical to yours this morning on the way to work. Made me miss you so much. Its hard to believe that we no longer have daily contact or know what each other is doing threw out the day. I feel like there is a hole in my life were something huge was ripped out...im praying every day that it will be filled or simply close up so the pain of it being there will stop.

I miss your good morning texts and hate that I did not appreciate them at the time. I miss the cards and flowers you would leave in my truck and hate that i did not acknowlege your efforts most of the time, and took for granted that you were not going anywere. Im sorry that I did not support your sobriety, Im so proud that you have accomplished that and know that it means alot to our son. I will admit that I doubted your commitment to it and spent the last 2 yrs waiting for you to fail...protecting myself from what I thought was inevitable.

I am sorry that I did not acknowledge my anger problems even though i was well aware of it, and continued to take my anger out on you and the boys on a daily basis instead of getting help and fixing the problem.

Although I did file for divorce, I do not want our family to be destroyed by this and hope that by some miracle, both of us will realize the chance we have to turn this around and be a family.
I love you so much J and I am willing to do anything, what ever it takes, no matter what the cost to stop this and turn it around. I miss your arms around me and I miss hearing you call me mama. but most of all I miss having you here to talk to ...I have never been able to talk to anyone the way I could with you.
Its sad that it took this to make me realize what I had.
I pray every night that your heart will be opened to me again.
J


sorry...but that really did feel good to get out and I think ill be able to get on with my day with the tears now..

[mishka422]

You can't define what his dad's feelings are, and you shouldn't even try - that would be mind reading.

If your son wants to know why his dad is doing something or why he feels a certain way about something, you really can't answer that. The only reply to his questions would have to be that he needs to talk to his dad. I'm not saying you should tell your son to confront your H, just that it is not for you to tell him what his dad is doing or thinking.

My son was eternally asking me 'why dad this, why dad that..blah blah blah' and it had be turned back to him. Not my place to answer.

[verycrazy]

Hi, itm, I know this is so tough for you, with your S being so upset. When my S was 13, he and I were outside on the patio, laughing and having a good time, when he wanted to know why his F acted so protective of his car. He said let's go look, so, dummy me, not suspecting anything, went to the car with him, and found letters and cards and cologne gifts from ow to my H. So, he found out when I found out about ow. I wish S had never known about ow. He acts respectfully towards his F, but he hasn't regained all respect for him. Anyway, would it be possible for you and your H to sit down together with your S and let him know together that you both love him, and that you two are trying to decide the final steps, and that whether or not you will end up back together, that nothing will change the love you have for him? I don't know if DB advice is contrary to this, but children should come first at times like this.

Maybe you could ask H to please sit S down and talk to him. If his grades are suffering that badly, he needs counseling, too. Could you talk to his counselor at school? They are probably used to all sorts of situations, and are usually very kind, and look out for the best interests of the children. When I went to IC, he suggested I bring my S, too. So, I did, and S got a lot out of it.

I know what DB says about sending letters, but I can understand your wanting to just let him know how you feel. Save it. Maybe one day....

vc

[imthemom]

We have been going to co parenting sessions and have touched very litely on how to sit with him together to tell him about the D. the wording has not been "we are trying to decide" or "whether or not we end up together" its leaning toward the very def D word so I am not pushing to set a time to do that, and really neither is H.

I do tell him that we both love and care for him and that will not change...He has been in counceling since we seperated 2 yrs ago, when we first seperated he took it shockingly hard and had a short run in with cutting himself so we got him in right away..which is why I am so concerned about him now.

I plan on contacting his councelor at school next week to have a meeting. H does not seem concerned at all...he says hell be fine, long as he knows we love him. well, pardon me but how is he going to know that??? when his dad is in contact only when its convienent??? yeah, that will show him.

oops, i spilled a little anger there...hope i didnt get it on anyone..:)

I dont understand what has been happening with him lately...there has been a lot (really every day) of texting back and forth..always about son..usually started by me but carried on by him. He offered to fix my truck over the weekend and spent a few hours there..he is coming over tonight to pull the trailer up to the camp sight (his offer again) and then returning sat to take it home.
Why??????
Why all the contact all the sudden...i did not contact him at all yesterday and did not hear from him or this morning. so maybe he is just responding.....I realized that I was contacting regarding S14 but really..its stuff he could care less about now so why bother. Its the normal stuff i would always contact him about but that was before, and now he really is fine not knowing.

Had a bad night with thoughts in my head...feeling very replaced and abandoned yesterday...better today. looking forward to camping trip and getting out of town. no phone reception and just me and the boys!!....and a good book and a campfire....*sigh*

[verycrazy]

Yeah, he really is having trouble with it. I guess your H has his head in the sand. My H has a friend whose S is doing drugs, and whose cousin wants to put an intervention together, but his father is saying that he will be alright, no need to worry so much. I don't understand people who try to ignore problems until they get really huge.

Would your h meet with the school counselor, too?

You have a perfect right to get angry about this matter. It's you child who is in trouble, and his father is too preoccupied with his own interests to help deal with it.

Maybe your H is feeling guilty? Who knows how their minds work?

The camping sounds great! Don't forget marshmallows!!

vc

[25yearsmlc]

We have been going to co parenting sessions and have touched very litely on how to sit with him together to tell him about the D. the wording has not been "we are trying to decide" or "whether or not we end up together" its leaning toward the very def D word so I am not pushing to set a time to do that, and really neither is H.

okay^^^, I get that. But let's face it, You filed for div, not him.

All I'm saying is that it did not happen in a vacuum. WE know he forced your hand, but your h may not even know that, and to HIM, you are the one leaning towards the divorce...and your son sure must wonder what the heck is going on...

(I'm trusting that your statements about money and having to flie for divorce were to protect you and your son, are true). IF they were/are, then you have to stay on THAT message.

Perhaps a support agreement would have sufficed, in lieu of the divorce filing. That would have given you some security, with a court ordered support agreement. YOUR H's lawyer MAY suggest this, but your h is responsible for how he chooses to respond to the filing. Obviously, discuss all this with your Lawyer first...

In any event, why not tell your son that you are living apart b/c you are "not sure you two should live together right now" and you are taking a "time out"... This makes it easier for the kids to transition into the change IF it does come...and it does not help anyone to cement in the "WE WILL DIVORCE ASAP" statements, that some WASs seem intent on.

((Then again, your h may genuinely believe you put your foot to the pedal to the floor, and that you want to go full speed ahead for a divorce. There is a lot of history to back that up, so

Is there any verbalized reason your would NOT feel that way?))

Vis a vis your son, please reassure him of what is NOT changing in HIS life... Kids are rightfully self absorbed at this stage of their lives.

They want to know how THEY will be affected...
My girls were upset by our troubles, but A LOT of their fears were about moving and starting over (we were military and the moving was a real drag for them after awhile. We had no idea how deeply it bothered them).

So I allayed their fears when I told them that we'd be in the same house at least til d1 graduated from high school (2 years). So their friends and school, and home, and neighborhood would Not change, and this was a great relief to them.

Stressing what would remain the same for them, was comforting.


I do tell him that we both love and care for him and that will not change

Good!!...and imo, there's nothing wrong with telling him that you'll always love your h too, b/c after all, look who he brought into your world-your son!!

Doesn't mean you'll always be married to him...but let your son know that real love does not "die". Even if it gets strangled and loses its' breath...it's there, buried underneath a lot of other...stuff...


...He has been in counceling since we seperated 2 yrs ago, when we first seperated he took it shockingly hard and had a short run in with cutting himself so we got him in right away..which is why I am so concerned about him now.

Your SON was in counselling and cut himself? That's unusual for a male. How is he now? What did your h think at the time?

I plan on contacting his councelor at school next week to have a meeting. H does not seem concerned at all.

HEY Stop the mind reading. For all we know, your h is wracked with guilt AND or worry AND or shame...AND the anger demonstration and feelings are revealed in your interactions with h.

That's NOT helping you show him the new you, and it does not help give your h something to aspire to, and it hurts your son to think that his dad does not care AND it lessens the chances of a recon of the marriage....

so how and whom does the anger help?

Instead, why not give your h something to aspire to, something good and noble to live up to?...

Why not assume he DOES care about son's problems...and act accordingly?


..he says hell be fine, long as he knows we love him. well, pardon me but how is he going to know that??? when his dad is in contact only when its convienent??? yeah, that will show him.

oops, i spilled a little anger there...hope i didnt get it on anyone..:)

not "a little anger"...


I dont understand what has been happening with him lately...there has been a lot (really every day) of texting back and forth..always about son.

um...b/c your h DOES care about your son...?? Surely that is a possibility.

.usually started by me but carried on by him. He offered to fix my truck over the weekend and spent a few hours there..he is coming over tonight to pull the trailer up to the camp sight (his offer again) and then returning sat to take it home.
Why??????

Why not? Why shouldn't he help out? He's trying to be a provider, he's still a dad, he's still your partner in at least some ways and it saves everyone some money to have him fix the truck. It's in everyone's interest...

Instead of scrutinizing his behavior with suspicion, why not accept this gift graciously?

would that be a 180?


Why all the contact all the sudden...i did not contact him at all yesterday and did not hear from him or this morning. so maybe he is just responding.....I realized that I was contacting regarding S14 but really..its stuff he could care less about now so why bother.

You are repeating behavior you say you regret doing in the past.

You are again mind reading, & ALL 100% negatively.

How does this help anyone?

How does it demonstrate the new you?


sidenote--as a former English Composition teacher, I have a pet peeve about the commonly used phrase, "could care less" b/c it is incorrect.

The correct version is "could NOT care less" b/c the point you are making is that you think he cares so little, that it's the least he could possibly care. Therefore your comment would be that he could "not" care less than he does...make sense? Okay, back to earth...

Its the normal stuff i would always contact him about but that was before, and now he really is fine not knowing.


what? IDK what this means but I'm guessing it is more negative mind reading...

Remember that we all make mistakes. Here, the goal is not perfection, but it's learning from our mistakes and NOT repeating THE SAME mistakes.

You are repeatedly mind reading, negatively, and letting your mind spiral on downward...and this creates so much negative energy in you, that when you are around your h, or when you interact with him, a lot of anger spills out.

Your does not deserve this anger b/c he does care. I don't believe your h is indifferent to you, and he's certainly not indifferent to your son.

He cares. So your anger isn't just a turn off to him.

To Him it's also unfair and inaccurate...and it's SO NOT HELPFUL TO YOU..and

it makes it easier for your h to be with OW.
Do you see how?

Negative projections and angry mind reading is something you need to control better. Agreed?

Had a bad night with thoughts in my head...feeling very replaced and abandoned yesterday...better today. looking forward to camping trip and getting out of town. no phone reception and just me and the boys!!....and a good book and a campfire....*sigh*

Hope you have a great time with your sons, and are grateful that they are not at war (well, it's Veteran's Day and my h is getting deployed, fyi) and they are healthy.

And they have a strong mom who loves them very much!!

[25yearsmlc]

Thanks Mishka, i guess i could tell him that when he does ask me..but saying you will have to ask your dad that sounds to me like I am blameing him (H)...and for some reason I dont feel comfortable with that..????? I dont want him to hate his father and would be just as devistated as I think he would if he found out about OW.


You can refer son's questions about how your h FEELS or what he THINKS, to your h. There's no way you can answer for him anyhow...but imply nothing. Any info about OW must NOT come from you...it'll backfire on you.

This morning I am having some desperate need to write H a letter or send him a message...I have not done this since he dropped the D bomb..I did go to the house and try to talk him out of it one time in the first few days after but was completley rejected.


and then you filed...so to him, you have responded...but again, you said you were forced to by financial concerns. Stay on that message. Act as if you would have responded differently IF there were other options but to your knowledge, there were not any alternatives if you wanted financial security for your son and you. If this is true, stand by it.


for the sake of my sanity and in hopes of stopping myself from making a complete idiot out of myself I am going to write it and post it here, just to get it out ....feel free to scroll over it cus its not pretty..

J,

I saw a truck that was identical to yours this morning on the way to work. Made me miss you so much. Its hard to believe that we no longer have daily contact or know what each other is doing threw out the day. I feel like there is a hole in my life were something huge was ripped out...im praying every day that it will be filled or simply close up so the pain of it being there will stop.
miss your good morning texts and hate that I did not appreciate them at the time. I miss the cards and flowers you would leave in my truck and hate that i did not acknowlege your efforts most of the time, and took for granted that you were not going anywere. Im sorry that I did not support and trust in your sobriety enough, But please know that I'm so proud that you have accomplished that been in recovery this long and know that it means a lot to our son. I willadmit that I doubted your commitment]to it and spent the last 2 yrs waiting for you to failbut I thought I was protecting myselffrom what I thought was inevitable.

I am sorry that I did not acknowledge work on my anger problems sooner even though i was well aware of it, and continued to take my anger out on you and the boys on a daily basis instead of getting help and fixing the problem.

Although I did file for divorce, I do not want our family to be destroyed or defined by this. I and hope that by some miracle, both of us will realize the chance we have to turn this around and still be a family in whatever loving form that takes.

I have learned a great deal these past few years. If I had it all to do over again, there are a lot of things I'd do differently.


I love you so much J and I am willing to do anything, what ever it takes, no matter what the cost to stop this and turn it around. I miss your arms around me and I miss hearing you call me mama. but most of all I miss having you here to talk to ...I have never been able to talk to anyone the way I could with you.
Its sad that it took this to make me realize what I had.
I pray every night that your heart will be opened to me again.
J


sorry...but that really did feel good to get out and I think ill be able to get on with my day with the tears now..

Don't pursue so much. Don't belabor the point.

There is far more power in the economic use of words. IOW, don't talk so much or it gets lost in the paragraphs...

Don't lay prone on the railroad tracks, when the reason you filed was to protect yourself and son.

Honestly, I'm getting confused!. You claim with a straight face AND I BELIEVE YOU, that you were forced to file so you would not starve or go without.

Then you retract all of that with these apologies.

I get how destructive your anger was. I get it. Heck, I point it out all the time.

What I don't get, is the need to keep back tracking from what you said you were forced to do.

Think of this as a campaign, which it is. And stay on message.

*You did what you had to do b/c he was spending too much and not sending money home (forget about OW).

* You do not WANT a divorce, but you want reliable support and this was seemingly the only way to get it.

* If there is another way to achieve financial security, other than divorcing, you are more than open to using it.

* You'd like to maintain SOME sort of positive R with h...for now, it's for son's sake...


*You are actively working on YOUR issues b/c YOU want to become the woman you were before, a woman only a fool would leave.


WE all know you want more than this, but as for what you TELL your h,

the above is sufficiently clear and open ended, without being pursuit or needy, AND without totally negating the purpose of the filing.

If you realize that the filing was actually a way of punishing your h, then it's backfired,

and you ought to ask your L what to do about that. Retract? Lose all leverage? IDK...

Hope this helps...meanwhile

how are your GAL and 180s doing?

Be busy and mysterious and upbeat and happy and getting better and happier all the time...

[Danl]

Hi mom,

Hope you don't mind my stopping by. I just wanted to reinforce something 25 is pointing out about possibly understanding some
of what might be affecting your h's thinking.

I don't know how traumatic were the precipitating events in you guy's first split, his rehab stint, and so on.. but I know that nobody walks through this stuff unscathed.

Fear; shame; guilt;.. the greatest of these is fear. A vicious cycle, three cords strong.. difficult to break. Like a black hole, gets heavier, spews energy.. but NOTHING escapes. Turns a man inside out. And, he's da--ed if does/ da--ed if he don't,
in a sense, because; he has a life-long disease that distinguishes him from the population at large; and he's only a hair's breadth from another drunken fiasco on any given day.. it's a weird --"I live in a fishbowl"-- effect that even alienates a guy from those he adores and cherishes with the very breath of his being.

Having a "disease" serves a like a heat sink, so to speak, for all the crap I've pulled... see what I mean? The fear, shame, guilt is anchored in the disease. Having a disease blunts the crushing moral weight of my behavior and subsequent
circumstance.

I bet that's a drag to read [sorry 'bout that].. it's a drag to write.. imagine what it's like to LIVE it.

When [not if] a person is truly indoctrinated to that mindset it sends a weird fugue to the moral machinery.. just think about it.. a guy can't really trust himself.. because he can't fully accept the whole moral load for "it".. true disease driven behaviors [like dementia, head injuries, and so on] aren't the responsibility of the patient.. that's what health care people do.

There's an antidote: Faith, Hope, and Love.. the greatest of these is Love

The only thing that matters is faith expressing itself through love

Love casts out ALL FEAR.