Another crisis.....but H opening up now

[Cyrena]

Hi Angel,

I'm delighted that you and your H got so much out of Retrouvaille!

With regards to your H feeling that he had a choice between true romance with OW and "a life of misery" with you, please be aware that MLCers are functioning on an emotional (rather than rational) level when they feel this way. The impression that they've never loved anyone the way they love the OW is inaccurate and temporary.

In truth, they're projecting so many positives onto her that they find, later, that they hardly saw her for who she truly was--they never knew her in the way they knew their wives. They were too self-absorbed and depressed to be able to connect properly. All the romantic messages and gestures were the trappings of infatuation and stop making any sense once they stop being driven solely by their emotions.

I'm glad you've been given another chance to try to achieve the sort of marriage you both hoped for. Congratulations on all the changes you've made that brought you to this point ... and don't stop making them!!

I hope your D notices a positive change in your interactions with H, and takes comfort in it.

[angel61]

Thanks Cyrena!

I hope it is as you say.... since I seem to follow so closely in your footsteps, my H seems to be so much like yours.

I do believe he did love me, but our courtship was not the typical one. We started out where I was in a superior position, him being in a training position as a resident and I one of the mentors as an attending in the hospital. I was actually engaged to my BF of several years, but who I was no longer "in love" with.

We had an immediate attraction to each other. He always would ask me to be the one to teach him, assist his surgeries, and we would sometimes meet up after work to chat, ostensible on the cases, but really to be with each other in an unsaid fashion.

We still dated other people, but that did not stop us from being physical, and we ended up as what now is called "friends with benefits". No words of love were exchanged. No committments. I broke off with my fiancee, then he stopped dating other people, we started getting to know each others family, but still no ILY's were exchanged. We had so much fun though, and were with each other almost all of the time.

I was puzzled by our relationship. I talked to our mutual friends, one of them who said that he was suppressing his feelings, because of our age difference, and because he felt that professionally, I was so much more advanced and that he could never catch up. The others were all as puzzled as I was.

Until one day, 3 years after we met, when he asked me to be his GF, and I replied by saying that I was too old (by then I was 34) to be playing games and if I was to be his GF it meant we were serious and that we were looking at a forever committment. Much to my surprise, he said he was going to marry me, and immediately made plans. We got married the next year.

Although we were happy those first years, we rarely said ILY's to each other! We spoke though of how close we were, how we could almost think the same thoughts, how in synch we were with each other.

NBow, when H recalls those days, he feels like it is as if he married his best friend. I disagree but what can I do at this point?

If ever he will have to realize his love for me, it may be that he also has to realize that he has loved me even then. Althugh to be honest, it does not matter much to me anymore. As long as he will love me in the here and now, in our new M!

[Cyrena]

Clearly, the fact that both of you had issues around saying ILY doesn't mean that you didn't love each other deeply--although it may feel that way to your H at the moment.

I'm curious, though: in your new M, would you say it more? Are there other changes you would make to reflect your new understanding of love?

Interestingly, the other things you mention--thinking the same thoughts, being in synch--are also part of the initial infatuation stage of romantic love, when lovers want to feel like extensions/"completions" of each other. So you were definitely more than just friends!

[angel61]

I definitely will be saying ILY's and will be demonstrating my love for my H, once I feel that it will no longer drive him away.

In the past, I demanded he show me affection. When he did not give it to me, I withdrew. I thought of it as a give and take.

That was a mistake that drove a deep wedge into our M. I just want to give now, and not base it upon what I get in return.

I also will always affirm him, let him lead, and let him grow.

I now know my changes and efforts were seen and appreciated, and it makes me feel great.

In spite of it all, I am starting to agree with what many of you feel: that what happened was all for the best.... that I would never have realized all of this had this not happened.

Its true, God really has a plan.

[Cyrena]

A strong post, Angel--you've really come a long way.

[angel61]

Thank you Cyrena.

That means so much to me, that it actually brought tears to my eyes.

I feel that I am worthy.

[Lotus]

Angel,

Despite your H being out of town, you should be dialoguing. It's important to keep the dialoguing going or the movement starts to go in the wrong direction again. At the very least, you could be dialoguing on your feelings about going to Post sessions. They definitely helped. That's why they became institutionalized into the program. At first, Retrouvaille was just the weekend, but the results were not strong enough. Couples would do well on the weekend, and then lose it in the weeks following. Post continues the journey, strengthening the skills as you go along.

You can do it the way you suggest, missing the first couple of sessions, if need be and then doing them during the next session. But the dialoguing is independent of that. The dialoguing should be established and continued several times a week to help you continue to heal.

And yes, as in so many other things, the hard road has greater rewards than the easy path.

[angel61]

In one of the other MLC sites I joined, a poster told me that he did Retrouvaille too but his W was in Replay, and so ulitmstely they separated.

This is what I mean when I say that my H is also in a way, not ready yet. I think he is at the tail end of replay, he knows he will be ready one of these days, and he does see it now, and Retrouvaille helped him see it a little clearer -the path to loving me again, this time, as a decision.

He knows he is staying. OW is no longer a big issue, she is leaving the end of this month for her home country, which is 30 hrs away by plane, the farthest possible place to be from here! Good thing.....and I do see H struggling but he is coping..... no signs of depression, only a far away look evry now and then. I think he is no longer in contact with her, or if ever, it is minimal.

His struggles are now internal, but he still is not fully there. I am trying to understand, and this is where DB principles (not pursuing, patience, detachment) which have worked so far, and my wanting to follow the program, sort of diverge.


So I compromised:

I looked at the topics and felt that we could do two of them: the conflict management and the family of origin. I asked H if we could at least do those two for this cycle, as I do understand that we are not ready for the deeper topics, and we will do those in the next cycle.

He agreed with me.... and I won't push for more. I think I will be happy with whatever I can get right now.

So anyways, I did see a big difference in him when he got home this weekend. he has been happy, and patient, and communicative. He is making an big effort, and I really appreciate it.

Thanks again, I am glad I can share. Let me know what you think about what I did!

Angel

[Lotus]

Angel,

Every marriage is different and you seem to have a good sense of how far you can push your husband. Far be it for me to tell you that you are wrong. When we did the post sessions, it was condensed into 6 Sundays, with 2 topics each time. I am assuming that your group does only one topic at a time.

We found the family of origin topic very useful. Actually, we found every session useful. Many of them seemed to go very slowly, and we were antsy to pick up the pace, but in retrospect, they covered so much ground in only 6 sessions!

The session on love is a choice was an important one for us. It caused quite a bit of discussion among the couples. It is interesting how many people really believe that love is like a wave that breaks over you and sweeps you away. I think that session was very valuable because we really needed to talk it out before some of us were ready to let go of the belief in the "magic" of love.

[angel61]

Hi Lotus,

Thanks for the tip! Since H did say that he specifically needed my help to understand love as a decision, just like many of the couples and a lot of the posters here, H thinks love is a feeling, and so I am hoping that he will want to go to that session. For now, I plan to bring a dvd of Fireproof on our Thanksgiving trip to Hawaii next week and watch it there, as well as read part of the Love Dare book together.

Sometimes it does help not to push; yesterday, before H left for his business trip, he told me he will try to get back today instead of tomorrow so we can attend the session this saturday! We do have 2 topics per post as well, so I am sure it will be arduous. We had planned to go next month to the session in another nearby town but I really would like to go back to the group we were with as I have gotten to know a little a few of the couples there, and there were several with the same ethnicity as we have.

We still have been doing well so far; a couple of times H was snippy and I did react, to H's credit he was the one who pulled back, told me not to they were just small things and not to make it bigger. He still (and maybe never will) does not apologize but he acts really nice after these incidents, so I know he is remorseful.