Putting it back together, but SSM issues linger

[adinva]

Hi Accuray! Your story gives me hope, and I'm happy for you that you're having success and learning from all this. I had lots of thoughts while reading your post so I'm going to chime in, as much to test some of my thoughts about my H and I as to hopefully be helpful to you.

we had a generally positive recovery period and piecing, and I feel like we're now anxious to establish a new "norm" but haven't figured out where that is yet.

What "worked"? What did you do that made her feel safe or encouraged or interested in working things out with you?

I have figured out I have issues, and I'm working on addressing them. I'm doing a ton of reading and going to IC. Intellectually understanding these things is one thing, actually making life changes to address them is something else, but I'm trying!

This shows such strength of character and humility. It's frustrating when the changes you're trying to make are internal - you can't measure you're progress or "see" the changes. Your W is lucky to have a H who's even willing to think about things like this, and you're reading and going to IC?! Good for you.

Consequently, she is not giving. She does not give "words of affirmation", she does not seek to do the things she knows I like.

This and the not learning how to enjoy sex, I read as an act of aggression. I believe there was some of that lurking in my own issues (replace acts of service for words of affirmation and you have what I was not doing for my H even though I knew better. And couldn't explain why I felt so "lazy"). I also had a lot of trouble having conversations about sex, but if it was important to H and I could make him happy and chose to put up a wall of fear and anxiety to prevent us from enjoying each other more...well, to me that sounds subconsiously on purpose. Not all low self esteem. In fact, controlling how giving she is may be a way of putting herself one up from you, so she feels more in control or whatever. If you feel bad about not "performing better" and so you become hysterical and upset, you can shut down the conversation so you don't have to try to do better. I can tell you, I have cried about comments H made regarding sex in the past, and let my sorrow and bad feelings get in the way of trying. I'm sorry I did that now. I think I had to get to this brink to realize I need to set down all of my pride, my ego, and get to work finding out how to be a better partner. It may be too late for this one.

I'm not saying my psychoanalysis of your W is on target, but some of your words hit home for me.

start to make an effort, but when things level off, the effort disappears. This is hugely frustrating to me -- the pattern of NOT doing something, then getting upset that you haven't done it. Why not just do it in the first place?

yep, I can put myself in your W's place there, and in fact have probably heard "why not just.." a bunch of times from my H. I can say, sometimes I almost could tell that I was sort of testing him by being so "bad", did he still love me? I didn't go through that exact thought process, but I could liken it to the feeling of when I was a kid, disobeying my parents' rules or just sort of intentionally not living up to their expectations. Something that kind of enlightened me about that was a book on birth order, might have been The Birth Order Effect, in which I related to the "disappointed perfectionist." The gist of it is, it's not going to be acceptable so why even try. I wonder if there's some of this going on with your W.

I know I would respond well to very enthusiastic praise for small achievements and letting a lot of slips go unmentioned. Be very very very patient. Forgive, forgive, forgive, and PRAISE. Don't have uncomfortable talks, and totally stop trying to force an "O." Just show lots of appreciation for even the smallest flicker of interest or skill. And not with a slant of "this is just a tiny step in the huge pyramid of what I want you to really do" but with a "I'm really happy about this one thing, that's it, just really happy." Just a few thoughts.

When things happen in our marriage, or there are decisions to be made, her criteria seem to be (1) how she feels about it and (2) making sure I accept how she feels about it. My opinion is ok if it supports her feelings, but if it doesn't, then the only thing important about it is how it makes her feel. I believe this to be narcissism, but I'm not a professional and probably not qualified to conclude that.

Is she interested in staying married, not just on her terms but for the good of both of you? It doesn't seem unreasonable for her to want to try learning your needs and negotiating them to fit around hers. This may be too soon to start working on negotiating, but down the road it sounds like you need to do that.

This doesn't have to be major things. I like spending time with my W, and I also like being out of doors. I like to bike ride, swim in the ocean, go sailing, go skiing, kayak, etc. My W will not do any of those things with me. I admit I get resentful -- what would it cost you to go on a 10 minute bike ride with me? You don't like to ride a bike, but doesn't the fact that I'd like to share that experience with you matter? I have made an effort to spend quality time with her doing the things that she enjoys, but she doesn't really engage in any activities.

This again sounds almost aggressive to me (on her part). You'll need to negotiate a give and take in your marriage. Maybe when you're meeting more of her needs and she feels more goodwill, you'll be able to start asking for more of your needs to be met.

I insisted that W read it as well, and to her credit, she did that for me.

That's impressive, and a big change from what you described about her. Did you show a lot of appreciation for her reading it? Did she provide any response to it? Did it make her feel pressured or uncomfortable, or the positive feeling of knowing lots of people have overcome similar challenges? Just curious whether the book was helpful.

This worked really well for a while, and twice I felt that W really "wanted me" and was enjoying the experience. This unfortunately delivered exactly what I have wanted for so long and established how good the experience can be.

Good for you! I would encourage you to be more patient. If she enjoys it once and you take that as proof that she should now want it all the time, she'll likely take a step backwards. I think your giving her the control over escalating was brilliant and she responded to it really well, in my opinion.

she never indicates when it's good for her versus not

Maybe this sounds weird but how about a silly code system so that, I don't know, turning her head left means oh yeah that's good. and how about if there was a code for no offense but I'm not into this could we take a rain check. It would be nice to have the power to just STOP and watch tv instead without feeling like you've crushed someone. I can't imagine a guy being willing to go along with this, but talk about letting her call the shots, wow.

The reason she doesn't enjoy sex is that she doesn't feel good about herself, and there's nothing I can do about that.

This sounds mean but you might understand it as a fellow DB'er. When there's nothing you can do, there's nothing you can do. But when there's something you can do, you feel empowered and take action and make your life better. There's something you can do. I don't know what it is. I mentioned above that there could be an element of punishment or control to her using low self-esteem to mask her insistence on not meeting your needs. Keep looking for what you can do differently that makes you a better person and more attractive to her, and that generates her goodwill. Keep working.

I've opted to stay and work on accepting, but I want to get to a place where I'm happy, satisfied, and am not projecting an aura of unmet needs to W. How do I do that?

I'm in the same boat here. My T has explained to me lots of times that I may succeed in saving the marriage (it's a long shot, she says) but I may realize in the end that I'm not satisfied with staying in it. I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. Right now, I've put ALL my needs on hold. I'm not getting ANY of them met by my H (well, other than the paycheck he brings home). Not ANY. Obviously, that's not a marriage I want to be in. I'm fighting tooth and nail to get him to want to stay, and then little by little, I'll have to negotiate with him that if he really wants to stay he needs to do X and ask for Y. Since he doesn't want to stay at all right now, the negotiating is premature. You're getting there because your W wants to be married to you for some reason and so she must be willing to do something to maintain that. But the more goodwill you generate, the more you can erase past resentments and be a better partner, the more likely she'll come around to wanting to meet you halfway.

Thanks for visiting my thread the other day, and good luck! You are doing amazing acts of love in this process. I admire you.