Asking for Help / Advice Please

[25yearsmlc]

25yearsmlc -- Thank you so much for your post. It kind of puts things in perspective. I am not in any sort of formal recovery program.


What is it that you are resisting? Is this resistance apparent anywhere else in your life?

Do you accept that the statistical likelikhood of recovery and staying sober is much higher in a program than for those not in one?

Recovering is already hard enough. Why not arm yourself with the full arsenal?



I have a counselor who I see about every 10-14 days depending on schedules. He is of course aware of the problems I am having and after speaking with him we decided to use kind of a custom program rather than me attending AA or entering a live in treatment facility. He has experience in the treatment of alcoholism.


Since I've been in a program (&coincidentally am also a L) I'm stunned that you can get by with sessions every 2 weeks...Not arguing so much as cautioning you b/c

I did the 90 meetings for 90 days and I have to tell you, I'm damn glad I did...

I also had an MD addiction specialist I saw 1-2 weekly AND a great t, and I attended groups...I also asked to have random urinanalysis so I'd stay extra motivated...

I mean, I did all I could do to make sure I did NOT relapse. Too much at stake.


As for the refusal to allow her to see the dogs, I guess deep down I have to admit that was an attempt at manipulating her. I tried to say I was doing it for myself because no contact with her was the only way to get over her. However, if I am honest, i must say that I hoped that would be a sort of shock to her and make her realize what she would be losing if we were no longer together. I believe all this, AND I believe a part of you wanted to punish her under the guise of "Shocking" her or teaching her a lesson. It's common.


The next day, I spoke with my counselor and we decided that I had promised her I would always let her see them and I should not break that promise. Therefore, I sent her a text the next day saying that after thinking things over, anytime she wanted to see our dogs she should let me know and I would arrange for it to happen. She has not seen them or asked about them since that date with one exception. On Halloween, I sent her a "Happy Halloween" text and told her the dogs were doing good. She said that she wondered about them every day and had been missing them.

that's valuable information.

Have you made it clear she can get them on a day you are gone? OR can you ask her to watch them sometime for you? Why do YOU have them anyhow?

I'm sorry but I don't recall if you said your c is a DB type or not. IS he familiar with MWDs approach? A lot of good t's and c's are not.


I reiterated that she could see them any time she liked. I've tried not to tie seeing them to seeing me. Nonetheless, she has not asked to see them or asked about them since last week. I was sober when I did it, but I was angry with her. I was angry just because I guess I felt I was working so hard to get my life on track and I didn't feel like she cared about it.

this is more of the same old stuff you've done so much of in the past.
NOT helpful to you.

Technically you are divorced now, right? Didn't you refuse to remarry b/c you were angry about something she had done while you were separated??

So, can you see that ANGER is a big problem for YOU?
I mean, talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face...


I've spoken with my counselor regarding anger management and I generally try to take ten deep breaths, which helps to calm me down and to make me think about why I'm angry. That usually works. Also, I spend about 20 minutes a day "meditating" for lack of a better word. By meditating, I mean lying down in a dark or semi dark room and just relaxing with no tv, phone, or radio. That seems to bring about some more peaceful feelings as well.

Hey, I say "whatever works"...but I would also think some cognitive work would greatly assist you in SEEING it before it happens and then figuring out how UNhelpful and destructive it is in your life. The more you face that, the less likely you are to repeat it, imo.

I'm guessing that when angry, sober or not, you've also said some deeply hurtful things. It's easy to forget them when you are drinking though I'm convinced that's also a self serving "benefit' of using/drinking...we like to get fuzzy when it comes to us being goofy jerks or mean.


You're definitely right about the history of broken promises and holding things over her head. When we got back together after she left the first time, I punished her for having had an affair.

Yet you behaved similarly with OW, right? I mean you texted even when you were with your w, correct? Can you see how much of this has been sort of structured and built by you?

I don't want to beat you up about it, okay? Just want to be clear that 42 days or 45 days now, Of not drinking and seeing a c every 1-2 weeks...would not get me to look twice.

Sorry EG, but if I were your w, I'd want to KNOW that THIS TIME IS DIFFERENT...and what is different now than before? I mean, you saw a c before, right?
For me, that symbol alone, of going to meetings, would make a difference that I'd want her to see.



I stopped going to counseling and generally made her feel bad about what she had done. I refused to see how my actions had had an effect on her. I also made many promises to stop drinking and fell through on all of them. I think at some point, she'd had one to many broken promises and left and decided to move on.

Makes sense...


I get what you are saying about not futurizing things so much. That's a big problem of mine I guess.

I tend to look only to when we get back together (if we do) and not think much about what's going on now I guess.

SO think about that...b/c it means that tomorrow, when you look back on today, your "yesterdays" will be pretty empty. See my point?

You spend today thinking about tomorrow, so when tomorrow comes, you have nothing to show for your yesterday...

In AA/NA there is a reason for their focus on "BEing HERE NOW" and living in the moment.

Aside from how hard it is to say "I will NEVER have another drink EVER" and mean it, (b/c it's a lot easier to say "today, I won't drink")

it's also about living life in general. 12 step programs, even if you are not a religious person, have value in the way they approach life.

They take life on life's terms. As it comes...not tomorrow or "someday when x happens"...and there is so much integrity in people who are in recovery once they've been in a year or so. They're more honest, more kind, more calm, more genuine, more reliable, imo. If those are valuable traits you want to work on, you may revisit the idea of meetings or some type of program? I know I'm nagging but til you tell me what you are resisting about it, I'll probably do it again, at least once or twice more...(so you know )


As for what I'm doing "today" to stay sober, I spend 90% of my nights with my parents at their home.

^^^ this won't be forever...so you WILL have to take steps to figure out alternative activities for that time of the night/day. You get that, right?

They know about my addiction and have been glad to have me stay there. Now that the time has changed it will be a bit more difficult, but I also try to play with my dogs after work and get some exercise with them. I have found that my main temptation to drink comes in the late afternoon / early evening. Usually, if I can make it past 6:30 PM or so, the urge is gone for the most part. I try to fill that with positive activities.

As for working on me, I became a certified scuba diver, and took a hunter education course. I'm trying to get involved in some charity work such as habitat for humanity but I haven't done that yet.

Those are not so much "your work on you" (by which I meant the anger & forgiveness work) so much as good GAL things, in general.

SCUBA diving is great -the physical part is excellent and a bit of a rush...good! Hunter education--cool...intense. Not sure how much socializing you'll do in either, but they are physical and seems to me,

and this is just MY OPINION..

GAL Has to do one of at least 2 things--
if it was PHYSICAL, it helped my body, my body image, the endorphins and the whole self image- and working out, ALL were useful and healthy...GOOD STUFF...

but for the social aspects and the loneliness...GAL activities involving other people were KEY.

I auditioned for community theater & did stand up comedy (later on I went back for an MFA believe it or not. The whole GAL triggered a lot of growth for me, so, who knew?)

Anyhow, also volunteered, and Habitat's great too. Is it seasonal?

You may do something pro bono in a woman's shelter if you think about it. You do NOT have to do Legal work but you can.

And regardless, they always want help. Same with Goodwill, Big Brothers, Boy Scouts, etc. And Coaching a team...ALL of which gets you outdoors, many are physical, and they get you meeting new people who do NOT know your w or your situation and none of the things I mentioned here would offer you a beer.


I'm not sure how to demonstrate the "new me" though because we aren't really speaking right now.


That's okay. It's easier to make the changes while she is NOT around b/c day to day exposure lessens the noticeablility of the changes. Same as when people live together and don't notice the changes that someone who hasn't seen you in a month would.

She drinks some, but not to excess. There really isn't anyone else in either of our families that drinks much at all (that I am aware of).

I'm 33 and she is 28. I'm an attorney and she has a BS in Professional Biology but she currently works at a local community college.

why do you say "but she works at..."? Like it's a surprise or less than expected...not sure if anything was implied there or not.

How is your work going? Are you a fulfilled lawyer? Are you at a firm? Are you on the partnership track, or can you get a staff position?

It was a first marriage for both of us. I think both sets of parents wish we'd just move on and not get back together. I know my parents feel this way, and I'm pretty sure hers do as well.

YOUR parents feel that way, why? Do you think being sober for a year will assist them in seeing the M as a possible avenue for you, being sober AND married?
You have had this drinking problem off and on since you were a teenager?

When you are a High functioning alcoholic it delays people realizing the depth of the problem, and enables us to lie to ourselves as well. After all, at some of those 12 step meetings, we'll see "real losers"...and we'll tell ourselves that "WE are not like THEM!"

So therefore we don''t need to be there...after all, we still have jobs or marriages or our driver's licenses...and truth be told--until we lose all that, most of us won't admit we have a problem.


My wife said she felt that, besides the alcoholism, that a big problem in our marriage was my selfishness. Also, I didn't work to have a good relationshp with her family and that was a problem for her.


surely you must have wished the relationships with her family were better for YOU too, right? I mean you say it was a "problem for her" but you mean, for you both, right? And how'd you feel about the selfishness on your end?


I think all of those reasons were valid and she is telling the truth when she says they were problems.

Well yes...


I'm trying to work on being less selfish and i'm also trying to rebuild my relationship with my family.

Those ARE achievable goals, you know. AND btw, how is your family doing with all this? Are they glad you are sober? Do they resist 12 step programs too?

(I'm not getting a commission for AA/NA, I'm just curious that someone wanting to get sober would make it so much harder on themselves! )

I still tend to be selfish but I'm trying to work on it. This morning though I caught myself being selfish again because a friend had a hurt hip and I forgot to ask about it and rather started talking about how I saw my wife on her way to work this morning so I still need lots of work there.

Good insight. And small consistent changes are the path to real change. Sure, we have to do SOME 180s
but mostly it's the small things, over time, that make us who we are.

I've ready the divorce remedy book but not divorce busting. I will order it and give it a read.

Yeah I found the Div Rem a little better (I think it's the 2nd edition of DB really) but Div Busting has more stats on why divorce is bad news. I felt like I already knew that but still, it did motivate me.

And then I read the Div Remedy book and that really helped me solidify the changes I wanted to make. In sum, I read them both and there's nothing wrong with that. But if you could only read ONE, I'd say to do the Div Remedy one...and btw, a lot of people just don't like reading much so it's a big deal to them to decide which ONE they'll read.

Sandi2 -- So I guess no matter what, don't initiate contact? Just let her come to me so to speak? That is going to be really hard but today is 7 days since we've spoken last so I guess I have a fair start going. I saw her on my way to work this morning. She was driving to her work. I waved but she didn't look my direction and I don't think she saw me. I thought that was maybe going to be a good opportunity to start a conversation.

the waving is a good way to start a conversation, or what?

I will say that, when I sent her the Happy Halloween text, she responded back almost immediately so I saw that as a good sign.

Yes I agree. And the birthday card can be simple, thoughtful is fine.
Just not = pursuit...

I rather like the card you mention that means something out of your past. As long as the words are not too heavy it still shows thought and history.

and her new R doesn't sound like something to worry about long term. I mean, the speed with which she entered it makes it clearly a rebound R...

so you need to step back and let it run its' course while YOU work on improving yourself

((( )))