W is angrier after my 180's - time + consistency

[bustorama]

It sounds like you guys had quite a talk! Communication and intimacy good, good, good, when originated by her (though she still was not fully honest or intimate about the A).

Of course W tried to deny but I made it known without being unnecessarily specific that I knew beyond doubt and she didn't try to deny further (didn't admit either).

I'm curious how she denied it? "Just friends" "total denial" of OM's existence? What were her expressed feelings/emotions? Anger? Fear/Anixety? Nonchalance?

She did ask since I was sure she had an A why would I want to be with her.

This is a common, but often unconscious/unvoiced, question by WAW. Your WAW came out and said it.

Sometimes WAW devalue their H when their H pursue them with this thought in the back of their minds ("Sheesh, why does this guy want to be with me if I am running around on him and don't want to be with him. He must not be worth much.").

The question might also reflect guilt about the A that is worsened by pursuit from the H (so they want the H to stop pursuing them so they don't feel pressured or guilty).

The question might also reflect disbelief that you now (or ever really) cared about her, especially NOW that she is in the thick of an A.

You don't want to mindread through any of these (though if you keep listening to her as you should, you might get a sense of which it is). The reality is that your wife is right. You DON'T want to be with her while she is having an A (do you?). As much as you may have effed up in the past (and yes you did), you as a person deserve more and will do the work on yourself to get there.

You want to be with (the memory) of your wife NOT having an A -- the qualities of your W that you love, when she is in an R with you. That's not who your W is right now. It's not a trivial distinction. Really think about what it means.

You will certainly keep working to be the type of guy whose W wants to be with him and not have an A on him, but so will your W need to change things in order to be ready to rejoin into an R with you.

Forgiveness snip

Yes, you will need to forgive and regain trust in each other, BUT be careful TELLING her what she NEEDS to do (controlling, reflects your feelings/wants, not hers).

Or telling her you forgive her before she asks you to forgive her or shows signs of guilt, remorse or approach towards you. I didn't get from what you wrote that she said she was sorry for the A (or intended to stop it). Did you? If she's not in a place of remorse towards you (i.e., still angry at, hurt or resenting you), then you telling her that you forgive her comes across bad -- as disconnected from her feelings/hurt/etc or just in denial of her "reality" ('I've got a new guy that I'm swooning over'). It also may come across as your not valuing yourself ("W, you can step on my face and trample me all you want, I will forgive you each time you put your heel to my head.")

Conversation was leisurely and we covered a lot of territory, including some revelations about some hurtful things that occurred between her and her father when she was in HS that really play into some of her depression related problems she experiences today.

I told her one of my biggest regrets was that I didn't accompany her to see her father when he had had a heart attack right after we were married. She reminded me that although that hurt, what hurt more was that she had to take a cab home from the airport when she returned.

This led into a whole host of other past transgressions, all of which I have vague recollections of but clearly hurt her in ways I hadn't realized. My memory will never be as good as her's or any woman for that matter, but I'm certain that in my mind there were logical reasons for decisions I made or behaving the way I did. This is where my growth will come into play for the future.

LISTEN LISTEN LISTEN to her. Talk sparingly. Nod, validate, yes tell me more about that. I can only imagine how that made you feel. Resist explaining yourself, defending yourself or justifying yourself ('the logical reasons'). They don't do anything for her hurt and come off as defensive. Oh God, I'm so sorry I hurt you like that, W. Period. Let her talk/share more then.

And this..... W tells me that since we moved from X city 13 years ago I haven't been happy. This may be true. She has said this before. Bus this time I asked her if she has been happy since we moved from X city and she says no.

DING, DING, DING - we have a winner! Now I wonder if my unhappiness for 13 friggin years may have anything to do with my W's unhappiness for the same amount of time!

She's told you something very important here. That your depression is not attractive to her. That it is not one of the parts of you that she fell in love with. (And I bet it's not one of the parts of her that you fell in love with).

Yes, it is sad how that depression (or negative feelings) in our partner, can make us depressed and vice versa, creating a vicious cycle. Who wants to be with someone that is down, angry, etc. all the time? I felt the same way, and it turned my wife off -- vicious cycle time.

However, it doesn't have to be that way. Be careful not to 'attribute/justify' your negative feelings to her depression (either to her or to yourself). YOU are responsible for your own emotional well-being. She is not strong enough to control your thoughts and feelings from outside of you. That's your mind. Own it.

There are things you can do to break yourself out of a funk. You could exercise, call/write/go out with friends or family, see a shrink, do some GAL activity (GAL is for all times, not just DBing). You could have turned to your W about how you were feeling (instead of into your own depressed thoughts/feelings). W, when I see you in a funk, or angry, or down, I feel in a stanky funk because [X]. W, I feel stanky funk now because [X] happened to me. Or you could use those CBT techniques that you are learning now to challenge your depressive thoughts or schemas.

She did't want to move. We moved anyway. She has been unhappy and has let me know in ways that are obvious and subtle. So another new area for growth!

Again, so important what she told you. Before moving, did she voice her opinion (even once, softly) and and the decision was made to move anyway? And then after moving she kept voicing her pleasure directly and indirectly. To no avail. If we don't listen to them, they experience being steamrolled by us, over and over and over. And they learn not to trust us or share with us. Certainly not directly, maybe indirectly, passive-aggressively, or aggressively, eventually not at all. Because we will just steamroll them again.

As we continue to talk I tell her that I had read the 5LL's and that I was certain I know what her LL is. She asked me what, I said Acts of Service....You'd think that after 18 years I would have figured that out by now! God I am such a slow learner.

Listen, watch, and keep learning =)

Now, I had an IC session today and I shared this story and my C reminded me that in all of this there was the 800lb gorilla (OM) staring my W in the face and that she instead chose to focus on all the little chip monks in the corner.

There are two aspects to this, but I partly agree with 25 here. The OM IS a gorilla in the room that can wreak havoc on your R/M, and yes, your W wasn't forced to it. Bad act.

BUT it is missing the point to devalue your W's feelings and hurts and call them chipmunks. Those accumulated into a chimpunk from hell that broke the doorframe of your R so that your W FELT justified in allowing a gorilla to enter the room. To rebuild the house, both the elephant and the gorilla in the room will need to vacate the premises.

Her conscience choice, yes. But, you admit that you made some (less conscience) mistakes in the relationship. Negligence and ignorance of the law are still punishable. Two sides of the fence to be fixed.

Keep DBing/GAL/especially PMA, and good luck telling the kids!