What do I do next?

[Grace_O]

LH,

I would really stop talking about this to family and friends as soon as possible. Come here to vent and ahare. I know the temptation. I also know it does not help esp in the longrun.

As far as people telling you it's hopeless, they see you hurting and they care about you. They want that hurt to go away and the only path they see is for you to move on.
Honestly, the less said to them the better.

As to whether you should have any hope or not, that's all in your court. There is always hope in life. How the story ends remains to be seen, but do you really want a life without hope? I know you are tallking about the specific hope for your M, but how different is that than hope in general? We hope that we will make a difference in our lives and that we will love and be loved. Then we take actions that lead us in those directions.

If you were to plot a course to lead you towards the things in life you value most (right now, it doesn't include your W), what would that look like? What steps, no matter how small could you take today that would send you in that direction?


No, you aren't nuts for wanting her back and still loving her.
I think there are alot of though questions you need to look at and I understand that you might not be in a place to do that yet.

It took me awhile and honestly, over time, not only the answers, but the questions changed.

I'm really sorry today is such a tough one for you.

HUGS

[Telemark]

It is obvious to me that this OM has filled some emotional need of hers for some time and instead of my W reaching out to me, she continued having this EA both during work and after work (through texting).

So now I'm left with all these excuses that my W has given me over the last few months that has given me reasons to blame myself for why things went wrong while she has not brought any blame upon herself. Now I'm not saying that I didn't play a part in this, but I see now that it is more than just me that is to blame.

Right there with you. My STBXW started her long-distance EA about a year ago (thank you, Facebook) and was constructing her plan to be with the OM long before this past August.

We can own 50% of the marriage troubles. No more, no less. Did we make mistakes? Yes. Did we say and do things that were hurtful and less than honorable? Yes. Did we still invest in our marriages and try to keep them intact? Yes.

Our W's, unfortunately, did not feel the same need for investment. It was easier to find comfort with someone new than to work on the hard details with someone not-so-new.

I don't think "delusional" is quite the right term, but our chances of seeing our marriages remain intact are greatly lessened by the presence of the OM's. They represent everything we are not, and they are the "saviors" of our W's perceived shattered dreams.

Like you, I still love my W, but I love who she used to be, not who she is now. If she called me in the next 5 minutes begging me to take her back, I don't know if I could do that.

Try to keep looking forward and not reminiscing about "what was" because "what was" is gone. Don't let her and the OM live in your head for free. Easier said than done, but it is the only way you will have a fighting chance of being stronger and more confident with yourself. And that is the best result of all of this.

[luvhurts49]

Thanks Grace and TM, your words mean a lot, but it is so hard right now.

@Grace: The only family I talk to about this is my mom and dad and the only friends I talk to are 2 people that have gone through something similar and I trust them completely.

I keep thinking that should have seen it coming--my W working with this guy all day, then coming home and talking to me about this guy and the conversations that they had--I should have seen it coming, but was too blind by my own love for my W. I thought that she was just disclosing facts so I wouldn't think anything was going on and maybe she was, but I don't know.

I'm still stuck with whether to confront her about the A or not. I think that she has been lying to her dad (where she lives right now) and some of her close friends because she knows that they probably wouldn't support her in this decision. I guess my goal in confronting her would to be to let her know that I know about the A--that I would be willing to forgive her if she ended it and came back to our M so we could make things better.

I'm confused and I really don't know what to do. This has been weighing on me since I found out about the OM. I don't know how to deal with this--I'm in so much pain. What do I do?

[Telemark]

I keep thinking that should have seen it coming--my W working with this guy all day, then coming home and talking to me about this guy and the conversations that they had--I should have seen it coming, but was too blind by my own love for my W. I thought that she was just disclosing facts so I wouldn't think anything was going on and maybe she was, but I don't know.

If someone had told you a year ago that your wife was going to have an affair and then throw your marriage on the trash heap, you would have had them committed. I don't think anybody sees it coming, because as I said, we LBS's are still invested in the marriage. Unless we get some direct feedback from our spouses, we assume everything is OK.

This is divorce #2 for both of us and the 2nd marriage my W has walked out on. I never in my wildest imagination thought she would want to endure that kind of pain again. 2 weeks prior to her dropping the bomb, she left Valentine's Day cards all over the house for me; handwritten inside were notes like "I'm yours forever", "I love being your wife", "You are my jewel", etc.

While she was writing these she was probably texting her undying love to the OM.

Do not beat yourself up for not seeing the unseeable. From what I've read here and on other boards, the WAS's go to some pretty elaborate extents to keep their EA's and PA's secret; it's all part of the magic and fun.

I would not confront her about the A; it will drive her deeper underground. But if you decide to confront her, I would not tell her you forgive her and want her back; that makes you appear weak and without any kind of boundaries.

Think about this: you want the A to end. You want your W to have no contact at all, ever again, with the OM. You want the OM to evaporate. Are you ready to express that to your W? If she thinks she can canoodle with the OM and use you for plan B she will continue to walk all over you.

I may catch it from other members here, but my opinion is to 1) not acknowledge the existence of the OM and continue to treat your W like any other acquaintance, or 2) if you really must confront her about the A, say:

"W, I am aware of your relationship with another man. I cannot force you to stop, but I can respect myself enough to not live in an open marriage. If you choose to continue your relationship with this person, you do so without me."

And be prepared to back up your words.

WAS's who have EA's or PA's have lost respect for their spouses. Your W will notice if you show her you have respect for yourself. I did not do that; I gave the "Oh yes I forgive you; just come back to me" speech and it just reinforced my W's poor opinion of me.

[Accuray]

Luv,

You are not alone -- I see this play out over and over, including for me. Here's the general script:

1) WAS tells you they are dissatisfied with the marriage.

2) You earnestly try to understand why and work on the marriage, you read DB, maybe do counseling, etc., but nothing seems to work. You get no emotional engagement from your spouse. You wonder how someone you've loved for so long could suddenly become so "wooden" and show no appreciation for your efforts. They seem to have gone from engaged with you to gone overnight emotionally and you can't connect the dots.

3) You bang your head against the wall for some period of time trying to make things better but increasingly getting frustrated.

4) You discover OM or OW -- suddenly many things begin to make sense, pieces fall into place. You feel:
-- stupid, for having not figured it out sooner
-- betrayed
-- alone
-- lonely
-- desperate
-- anxious
-- hurt in the worst way

There are many people on this board in this exact situation, you are not alone, it happens every day to millions of people -- no one sees it coming, how could you?

My W also became "friends" with OM at work. At one point she went to dinner with him alone and told me she was going. I told her I wasn't comfortable with that and wanted to discuss. She explained it all away that he was married, they were just co-workers, needed to discuss something about work outside of the office, etc. Bottom line, I TRUSTED HER, and she deceived me.

You are not wrong for trusting your wife, that's part of what marriage is supposed to be about! Don't feel badly that you didn't figure it out sooner!

I read that in many cases, people crave security and stability in their lives. As a result, leaving the marriage is a major trauma, WAS have to build up to it for months. It often takes the catalyst of a crisis (such as an affair) to get them to pull the trigger. That means that it's not the OM that caused her to leave, the OM was the crisis that allowed her to pull the trigger. The OM is not the issue, the marital problems leading up to the OM are the issue. That's why focusing on OM is a red herring, it's a symptom, not the cause.

Unfortunately, we come into this stage of our lives with expectations, just as we do coming into marriage. Usually we don't bother to question our expectations and regard them as "normal". The expectations that many of us have about affairs are from works of fiction -- books and movies. In these stories, the WAS feels terrible guilt, comes crawling back on hands and knees with tears in their eyes pleading "can you ever forgive me".

Often, in the case of infidelity, this is what we feel we are owed. In real life, this doesn't happen. A spouse who was so committed to the marriage that they would have this reaction wouldn't stray in the first place! Usually, by the time the spouse is with OM or OW, they are already checked out, have justified their decisions in their minds, and seek to "stick to their guns" and live with the decisions they've made.

So what comes next? Here's where the script diverges. I've seen the following play out:

A) Resignation: LBS decides they are done. We all have a line, and need to be true to ourselves. WAS made a decision, now we get to make ours. LBS comes to peace with their decision to leave the marriage.

B) Confrontation: LBS confronts WAS and offers ultimatum, OM/OW must be over. This virtually never works, it's what the movies portray, but it's not real life.

C) Acceptance: LBS has to "gut check" that they believe their marriage is more important than their pride. LBS determines that they still love WAS dearly and want them back, despite what's happened. LBS "paves the road back" for WAS. This means no shame, no guilt, no display of hurt, no expectation of apologies (for now). LBS tries to be fun to be around, a good parent, upbeat, etc. LBS "acts as if" if necessary.

The only way WAS comes back is in scenario C above, and even then there are no guarantees. The point, however, is you get to choose which of the paths above you're going to choose.

If you want WAS back, you have to go with acceptance, and that means you have to put your anger and resentment in the back seat when WAS is around.

Your WAW views you as a source of pain right now. If she thinks her actions have hurt you, she doesn't want to see the look on your face, who would? Remember in High School when you broke up with someone you would do whatever you could to avoid seeing them? No matter how glad you were to be free of them, seeing them hurt made you feel ashamed, and you would do whatever you could to avoid that feeling.

What if you ran into that person you broke up with and instead of seeing them with the weight of the world on their shoulders, they held their head high, smiled at you, and engaged in a conversation about something topical with no undercurrent of hurt or resentment? Would you still avoid them? What if you saw them at a party laughing and having fun? Would you feel the need to avoid them?

That's what you need to do if you want your wife back -- you need to pave the road. You do that by avoiding topics that are going to make W feel guilty. You do that by avoiding body language that is going to make W feel guilty. You do that by being fun to be around, and by being the best parent you can be.

It's extremely difficult, you have a very hard road in front of you, you need to decide if that's what you want -- it's up to you.

--Accuray

[luvhurts49]

I hear what you are saying Accuray and I do understand, but I don't know how to do that. I don't know how to pretend to be happy when my life is in shambles. I don't know how to be fun to be around when I'm not having fun and I'm not fun to be around. I just don't know how and I wish I did. I try to do what I can around my kids, but I can't even do that right. Unfortunately, I wear my emotions on my sleeve. I do want my W back, not just for me, but for our kids too. I want my W to love me again and I know I can't make her. I just don't know how to do this.

[Grace_O]

LH,

What do you think confronting your W about the OM would accomplish? Would it make you hurt any less?

In some cases that you "know" gives a sense of relief. Now, they don't have to tell you. And your knowing really doesn't change anything, except it adds another layer of hurt.

This may sound harsh, (so read it with compassion and a soft voice): She's told you she wants a divorce. You confronting her and or telling her Dad or her friends that you think won't support her in this decision, won't play out anything like you might hope for. All it would probably do is drive her further away. I know that doesn't feel possible, but it is.

There were days when it was all I could do to get up and put one foot in front of the other. You do what you can for you and the kids, period. Doesn't mean you have to be an a$$ towards her and believe me, we all know how hard it is to act "as if". When you don't think you can pull it off, stay away.

The concept of going "dark" is really for you. It gives you some breathing space and lets you learn coping mechanisms for when you do need to interact in person. Even then, you can be blindsided. Learn to walk away with an "I've got some things to take care of now, I'll have to get back to you" if something wells up.

I will tell you that I fought with myself about what to do early on (and not so early on). What has worked best for me is acknowledging that regardless of any legal action, my H emotionally divorced me before he ever moved out and that I have absolutely no ability to influence anything he chooses to do. That only leaves me.

I know you've heared that you can only control yourself. As much as it sux, it's true. That's why the focus has to be on you and your kids.

You need some time and space to stop hurting so badly. If you make major decisions now, you're just reacting. Not a good thing to do.

HUGS

[Grace_O]

LH,

What makes you say you don't get it right around your kids?

[luvhurts49]

@Grace: I try to be strong around my kids, but the depression, sadness, and frustration set in and I am no longer strong. My oldest son sees this and gives me a hug and tells me that he loves me, but then comes the water works as I can no longer hold it in. Then my youngest comes to me and says "daddy crying, daddy hug" and while it melts my heart, I just can't seem to stop crying.

So when I say that I "don't get it right", what I mean is that I can't even be strong around my kids (who I love with all my heart), how in the world am I supposed to be strong around my W when she is the cause of me being this way.

[Grace_O]

LH,

Have you considered anti-depressants?

As far as showing how you feel around your W, how often do you see her? Are there arangements you could make that would at least minimize that?