A fork in the road - EA admitted by wife

[NYCPeter]

Actually - I'm done anyway.

Infidelity wasn't always a deal breaker, but the fact that she's lied consistently and as not taken any blame for the breakdown of our M and tried to work things out.

I like myself now and I hope to find someone who likes and respects me.

I'm sure it will be for her friend (who I know cheats on her H), it'll be another lie because it has the checkout time on the invoice. They can't predict that when you are checking in.

[25yearsmlc]

Actually - I'm done anyway.

SLOW DOWN...good grief Peter...you CAN decide to end it. You hurt. You are angry. I get that...but why so fast?

You were "willing to do anything" how many hours or days ago?

You admitted recently that you tend to be impulsive and anger too much and are NOT calm.

IF you have learned so much about yourself...then slow down and react DIFFERENTLY...like the new man you say you are.

Don't you think you MIGHT want to sleep a few nights on this? I mean come on...slow down, take a breath...

Infidelity wasn't always a deal breaker, but the fact that she's lied consistently and as not taken any blame for the breakdown of our M and tried to work things out.

She has not had time for that.

I like myself now and I hope to find someone who likes and respects me.


How are you different now? How is your behavior this minute, different? It's easy to claim change when all is well....but you are being tested.

So pass this test. Sit on this a bit. THEN If you are sure you've pondered things thoroughly enough AND that your info is accurate, so be it.

At least you will have seen the L BEFORE YOU TELL HER ANY OF THIS...arm yourself with knowledge...show you are a different man by reacting thoughtfully and without haste.

I'm sure it will be for her friend (who I know cheats on her H), it'll be another lie because it has the checkout time on the invoice. They can't predict that when you are checking in.

this^^ I don't understand...what do you mean?

[NYCPeter]

I slowed down - took a deep breath and watched Football instead.
Seeing guys beat each other up had some theraputic value

I'm sure it will be for her friend (who I know cheats on her H), it'll be another lie because it has the checkout time on the invoice. They can't predict that when you are checking in.

The invoice indicates the checkout time - that means she must have been there to checkout. Her friend is a serial cheater - and the only plausible excuse would be that my W did this for her.

My W does not love me - she has said so many times, she knows I am a good father and a good husband, but does not love me. One thing she said in the convo the other night - "I want to be alone for a while" - at the time I said, I'll give you us much space as you need, she said no - alone, just me and the girls. What do you say to that? Why are you making life more difficult for yourself?

[NYCPeter]

Hence my contention that child support is the more accurate term. IS it possible you misunderstood the L"s words?

I would need to pay Child Support (standard calculation) and lifetime spousal support (because my W could claim she cannot work and would need to look after our D9, not an unrealistic claim) - we've been married 12 years so it's considered a long-term M. I would also be responsible for my W's health insurance as she won't be able to work.

Point taken re: larger firm vs smaller firm - I live in a small town 25 miles north of NYC, there is a larger town near by where I could look at larger firms.

do you have any pals or friends? You need to. It's a big issue and you have to make it happen.

I grew up in the UK and moved to the US 20 years ago - so all my old friends are in the UK. I have made many friends in the US but they all live in the city or in NJ and with the exception of 1 are married - by the time I have put the girls to bed it's usually 9pm - too late to make a trip to see them. Weekends are tough because my W works so I need to be there for the girls.

Most women want a man who can provide for his family, is kind and interested in what she has to say, shows love, is a good father, and can have fun.

This is not what my W wants - right now she wants to be alone, she doesn't love me and does not see the love returning - she said so in a convo the other night. I've tried to give her space and taken on a lot more responsibility with the girls to give her the opportunities to do what she wants.

How severely disabled is your d, btw?

She can't feed herself or go to the toilet on her own, she has limited motor skills. She cannot talk though clearly understands a lot of what is going on around her. She goes to a special needs school (which is one reason we moved to this area) also the town my W grew up in.

[NYCPeter]

right now she wants to be alone, she doesn't love me and does not see the love returning - she said so in a convo the other night. I've tried to give her space and taken on a lot more responsibility with the girls to give her the opportunities to do what she wants.

Any thoughts on the above - I really don't know how to approach this.

[Telemark]

You can't approach this...she has made her feelings very clear. If you "approach this" you are NOT giving her space.

"Living together but separated" is a difficult, if not impossible, situation. Your is even more complicated with your D9; I really feel for you. My W and I tried "living together but separated" for 5 months...disastrous results.

If I could do everything over again, I would make the superhuman effort to be nothing more than a polite acquaintance to my W, and even then...no guarantees. But any step you try to take toward her will result in her taking two steps away from you.

Continue to devote your time only to your girls. To you, your W should be a roommate, nothing more.

[Accuray]

NYCPeter,

25 has given you some great feedback here. One observation I have made following your posts is that you tend not to journal your backsliding in some cases. You tend to present transcripts of conversations, but some of the non-DB points are left out. Therefore it's not clear if your W has seen consistent, believable change from you and that MAY be motivating the statements she's making. Remember not to believe everything she says. Love in a long term committed relationship is a decision as much as it is a feeling -- it's something you have to work to have.

In order to be willing to work, you need to have motivation. There is negative motivation, like not wanting to be alone or fearing a worsened financial condition, and there is positive motivation, like feeling wanted, secure, and having a best friend. What kind of positive motivation would you like your wife to have in your relationship? How are you setting the table for that to occur? There has been a lot of discussion lately on your thread about the negative motivation, but that's not going to be enough to keep her there with the level of enthusiasm you're going to want. That will lead you to roommates. What does she want from the relationship? What motivated her to marry you originally, and what did she most like about your marriage historically?

>>
I want to find out what has happened.
>>

You will never and can never know it all. Your W's memory is clouded by how she has chosen to perceive her actions. She may be willing to share some of what's happened with you, and she may not. You need to make peace with this because THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT. The sooner you surrender to the fact that you cannot know what has happened, the less tortured you will be.

>>
I want to know why she keeps lying to me.
>>

Why do you say she keeps lying to you? She did some disclosing, and has since made an effort to make you aware of her whereabouts. When was the last time she lied?

YOU set a "rule" in your relationship that infidelity was a deal breaker -- you told her that directly. Therefore, when infidelity occurred but she wasn't sure if she wanted your marriage to end, being honest wasn't going to be a good choice in her mind.

If you now let her know that honesty is the most important thing to you -- more important than fidelity -- you MAY change how she thinks about communicating with you. She will not be honest if she fears that you will use it against her. The only way she's going to be honest is if she has some reason to believe it will make things better FOR HER. How will being honest make things better for her in your view?

>>
I want to know if it's ongoing - I am not going to be the spare part in this marriage.
>>

In my opinion, and others may differ, I believe you have a right to know if it's still going on. The important thing to do is *assume* that it is, and ask yourself how that's going to change what you're doing. What are you going to do with that knowledge? Will you demand that she end it? If so, what's the "or else"? Does the "or else" matter to her?

You may not be in a position to demand that she end it. If you determine that's the case, you may save yourself the angst of asking.

>>
She is paying by CC (my money) - to sleep in a hotel with some guy, please!
>>

Remember that you weren't part of that decision. She didn't do it to hurt you. She was driven by "in love" feelings, doesn't have money of her own, so chose the easy way to address the situation. That had to do with her wanting to use the money, not wanting to hurt you.

That said, you have every right to be angry about that, there's nothing that makes it right in any way. I'm just hoping it may help knowing that it wasn't done to intentionally hurt you.

--Accuray

[25yearsmlc]

you have some murky legal issues so it's even more imperative you get a good legal opinion. There are "debatable" issues.

Of course, calling it alimony probably helps YOU...mostly. But like I said, this is one of those questions that are debatable enough among lawyers, that I'd want a seriously well resourced law firm to advise me.

As for your w saying she doesnt love you, remember the saying "Believe none of what they way and only half of what they do."? That applies.

I do NOT believe she doesn't love you. I almost don't even believe SHE believes it, but maybe she does. And so what? It does not make it true!

I believed some of the things I wrote in my journal back in 05-06...some of the things I wrote I "felt" at the time, but knew were debatable, and some things I said, I was "sure" about.

But MANY OF THOSE things have changed now!

So nothing is written in stone. Even the beliefs YOU have held before, surely some of them have evolved since then, right? Allow for that to happen with HER too.

Don't get bogged down reading her mind and heart AND assuming it's all permanent AND ALL negative.

IT's just not accurate or helpful.

I'm sorry your d is so disabled. Is it possible she'll ever live in a group home?

My friend has a son with CP and he cannot communicate or walk or have trunk control...he never will be able to do more than "say" a few words and that's best case scenario....but he "speaks" with machinery that is mostly accurate but VERY simple. Sometimes I'm not sure it's accurate but He pushes the command buttons of "yes/no/hungry/thirsty/need changing/holding/tv/tired"....and a few more.

He'll live with 24/7 care the rest of his life. And your d?

So sorry...but I'm actually glad your w is willing to be that 24/7 care person. IF that changes, you can modify things but let's not go there now...

For now, breathe. Take your time and figure out what you want.

As far as her "Lying" ....people having affairs LIE all the time. That's how they have affairs. So when you say it's not the cheating, it's the lying, it's a little strange. Was she supposed to tell you? Really?

I am NOT defending it but I mean, let's be realistic there...

I'm not saying you have to take her back OR THAT she's asking too...

but let's take one thing at a time.

You recently suspected an A but were willing to address that idea...and now that you seem to know, suddenly it's a deal breaker "B/C of the lying" about it...??? Really?

I think you're just super angry and calling it deceit, when you know that no one having an affair AND telling you about it would have improved things. In fact we all would have been shocked at her nerve for telling you....

We all know having an affair is a bad thing for a marriage. But as for lying about it, it's Kind of a lose lose for her.

If she had told you of it, she'd be blasted for cruelty or for being "so clueless" that she'd tell you about it.

If she does not tell you about it, then she's an adulterer AND a liar....but that's sort of an "of course"...

SO, NOW WHAT?

Get an appointment with a L with whom you feel comfortable and trusting with. Do NOT hire someone who intimidates YOU, Or who won't explain the ups and downs and pros and cons of each choice.

Make sure you tell him what your overrall goal is IF it remains to keep your family intact.

You ought to be able to "chat" openly and understand your options fully. On your end, you have to accept SOME ambiguity on his part in that he can only predict so much, and guarantee nothing, you know?

((SIDENOTE: Case in point, I had a trial and wanted to get evidence admitted. There was a CLEAR route for getting it admitted. Absolutely not a 'murky" area of the law...and then the judge said, "well Counselor, I don't FEEL like letting that in today, so I'm excluding it..."

(okay your honor, maybe tomorrow we can pretend we're in a Pakistani court?)

There is not a lot you can do with that, except hope the judge gets help really soon[i][/i].

You ought to be able to Ask why they choose to do it this way, etc.

In my case, being a L made it harder to choose in some ways. But I interviewed 3 L's. Though I live on the west coast, I'm from the east coast and turns out we knew some of the same peeps.
Even odder though, were the remarkable similarities in our situations for her growing up, and me raising kids in high school with the same event (MD dad's leaving their families for adventure up NORTH)

But once you hire the Ls and trust them, then trust them to do their jobs...and don't undermine it. If you decide, rationally, that you do NOT trust the L's competence or commmitment, then ditch him. YOU CAN FIRE A L you know...

Hope I'm not fogging things up more.

Good luck!

[2thepoint]

NYCP - please re-read and digest what Accuray and others are telling you. In the long run, you will save yourself additional heartache if you follow as much as possible, the advice you are being given. If nothing else, consider their points and how they apply to your sitch and act accordingly.

One thing you MUST UNDERSTAND is that you cannot control what your W does, thinks, says, etc. She controls these things. But, what you can control is what you do, think and say.

The only thing you may be able to do regarding your W is influence, but only by your actions, not your words. Your actions (i.e. those things that make you a better you are the things that if given ample time, may cause your W to re-think things).

Think of your situation like a sand castle on the beach near the tide line. You know that eventually a wave will come along and wash it all away. And there ain't a damn thing you can do about it. Your only hope is to rebuild a new sand castle further inland. And even then, there are no guarantees.

Your W's decision/behavior in it's current form is like the wave that you know will wash away the sand castle. Accept that fact because there is nothing you can do about it. Work on you and only you and maybe, just maybe, your W will believe again.

BUT YOU KNOW THESE THINGS ALREADY, RIGHT?

[NYCPeter]

Thanks for all the replies.

Telemark -

Continue to devote your time only to your girls. To you, your W should be a roommate, nothing more.

Very tough to do - I'm trying though.

Accuray -

One observation I have made following your posts is that you tend not to journal your backsliding in some cases.

I know you are right - I come away from the convos with the positives, and don't know if I shut out the negetives and backsliding, I'll do my best to transcript better.

What kind of positive motivation would you like your wife to have in your relationship?

That the end result will make her life what she wants it to be.

What does she want from the relationship?

I think she's now getting what she always wanted in a M - but "it's too late she wants to move on".

What motivated her to marry you originally, and what did she most like about your marriage historically?

I think she wanted stability and a soul mate, we laughed a lot and enjoyed each others company whatever we did - we never had one thing that we did together we had loads (Movies, comedy, theatre, museums, going for a walk). We lost our way and now she does not want to spend time together.

25 -

I do NOT believe she doesn't love you. I almost don't even believe SHE believes it, but maybe she does. And so what? It does not make it true!

She loves me as a friend and as a father of her children - she does not love me as a husband nor someone she wants to be with or spend any time with.

He'll live with 24/7 care the rest of his life. And your d?

My D will too - she'll never be able to be in a group home without constant supervision.

Re lawyering - I'm really hoping if this were to go through we could do so through mediation - I'm willing to be fair and to give her everything she is due - I hope she is too. I'm hoping to use a L to review any documents and confirm it's within the realm of normal in our situation.

2thepoint -

One thing you MUST UNDERSTAND is that you cannot control what your W does, thinks, says, etc. She controls these things. But, what you can control is what you do, think and say.

I understand - I know I cannot, but I do by my actions want to show her other choices.

Thanks for all the feedback -
Quick journal -
D9 has a bad cold, she was supposed to have a minor procedure today to help with her drooling (she has excessive saliva). Procedure was cancelled due to D9's cold - so I ended up going into work (booked the day off).

Came home - Pleasant exchange with the W, she then went onto the computer to look for a job as "she said she was going to need it soon" - I validated and said I'm sure that any organization would be lucky to have you. So she recognizes she'll need to work more to improve her standard of living if a D were to.

I know I can't control her - I think more time would turn this around, question is do I have that time. If she still plans on seeing the L next week it's the next step in a chain of events that would lead to something I don't want to happen.