Back home - but for how long?

[Accuray]

NYCPeter,

That s*cks. You are entitled feel very angry, disappointed, and sad right now, it's the worst feeling in the world, and it will be very hard on you for the next few weeks. Your W let you down and disrespected her wedding vows.

The silver lining is that the lack of progress was not about you -- there's nothing you could have done. You've put in a huge effort and made great personal sacrifices for your family, you should feel good about what you've done here.

Your wife's relationship with Carlos was based on a fantasy. Affair participants feel "in love" -- this chemically alters their brains and makes them incapable of seeing their affair partner's flaws. They put them on a pedestal. The other thing the chemical reaction does is lower their ability to make rational decisions. I read one book that said it's evolutionary -- we construct defenses to keep other people out and to make good rational choices. Those defenses can get so good that people would never procreate -- so the "in love" feeling tears down that wall a bit and diminishes our ability to critically evaluate what we're doing.

The affair chemical release is also addictive, just like a drug. They get "hooked" on it and can't put it down.

You now understand your wife's behavior a little better. She's definitely been tortured by what she's been doing, which has made her run hot and cold. The only way to feel good about having an affair is to convince herself that "you drove her to it" so you must be the bad guy. This has nothing to do with what you've done. She realizes that she's doing something she shouldn't, but it feels really good in many ways, so she needs to construct a rationalization to make it ok. The easiest way to do that is to decide that our spouse is bad.

When you don't act bad, that makes it even harder on her to keep up her rationalization. That's why when you beg/plead/pursue/criticize you play into their hands and make them walk away further. If you give space and be pleasant and supportive, they're less able to convince themselves that you are the source of their problems.

Know that it is predictable that the "in love" feeling will wear off. That can last from weeks to months, but never longer than 2 years in extreme situations. At that point, the novelty wears off, the partner's cute idiosyncrasies turn into major annoyances, and one or the other will walk away. That WILL happen.

You now have some choices of your own to make. Previously you had told me that you would want to reconcile even if there had been an affair. You may not feel that way *right now*, but if you could get back there, you need to be sure you don't fly off the handle. Affair confrontation is difficult, and you don't want to drive the wedge deeper if what you really want is eventual reconciliation.

I STRONGLY recommend talking to a DB coach on this site before you say anything to your W. They are simply better equipped to help you right now than an IC. They will also help you deal with how you're feeling and answer some of your "why" questions.
I worked with Cheryl and she was great.

If you do want to confront, you need to normalize, not blame, and view it as a shared marriage problem instead of something "she did to you", otherwise there will be no discussion, just a shouting match or a quick exit with a door slam. Don't expect an apology right now, don't expect to see remorse. You are entitled to both, but you won't get them.

--Accuray

[NYCPeter]

It's confirmed my W has been lying all this time and I'm not paranoid - got to say that helps me.

D will be very hard emotionally and financially on all of us (me in particular as I will be away from my girls and I don't have family support in the States). Her parents will support her from a financial perspective.

By not confronting on the A - I am showing her I am weak, she is having the best of both worlds, financial support from me so she can be a SAHM and having sex with someone else.

I know I'm not thinking this through logically - but I can't continue as we are pretending I don't know. I'm showing myself disrespect. Is it pride - yes it is to a degree.

I can't get over how this is not my W - she is not this person but she's chosen this path to destruction.

So now I am faced with a stark choice.
1. Say nothing, continue to DB and hope the A runs it's course - disrespecting myself in the process.
2. Confront her - which will either
a. Move forward with her plans for D - which will devestate me but at least I am being honest with myself.
b. Shake her up and make her see things for what they are (I know - this only happens in the movies).

[Accuray]

You can also:

3). Calmly explain that you know what she's been doing, that you can understand why she may have found herself here, and that you are still interested in saving the marriage. You're willing to keep working on it for the sake of your family, but to do so, you need her to permanently cut off all communications with Carlos. You can't make her do that, it's her choice. Tell her you'd like to work things out but can't do it alone, the decision is hers.

Then, keep DB'ing!

Accuray

[~ kd ~]

It's confirmed my W has been lying all this time and I'm not paranoid - got to say that helps me.

Yes Peter, I too was better aware "knowing" the A is going on. Although I will tell you that myself and other LBS eventually come to a place of "but HOW involved..." This A that your W is having appears to be off and on, so you may begin to question if it's really as tight as you currently think it is... lots of stuff goes on in our minds about this, over time...

D will be very hard emotionally and financially on all of us (me in particular as I will be away from my girls and I don't have family support in the States). Her parents will support her from a financial perspective.

I thought the same about my W's family. And while it may be true (of course it's true), what I've found is my W IS NOT looking for financial support from her family. For a number of reasons I'm sure, including if my W went to her family, it would conflict with lies she's told them... ie. I understand she may have already told them that she was fine financially and she had already paid me out, financially... she'd have to admit she'd lied...

Look to what Accuray said about how the mind become addicted to an A. It's not just an A, it's any "in love" R that we become involved in. And I will admit that in the early stages of my R with my W, I too was addicted and "overlooked" her "flaws". I don't regret it, but from where I sit now, if it wasn't for my girls, I wouldn't have stayed in an R with her, nor M'd her.

But without that "in love" addiction, I can now think rationally and know I CHOOSE to accept my W's flaws in a positive way, rather than a negative.

By not confronting on the A - I am showing her I am weak, she is having the best of both worlds, financial support from me so she can be a SAHM and having sex with someone else.

I completely understand what you are saying and how you feel.

I confronted and it didn't help. Sure, I thought it might, but it didn't go well and rationally, it DID drive a deeper wedge between myself and someone I deeply love. Not something I'll do again, in this R or any future R I might have. I'd rather "work through the problem" now...

What I have done and is strongly recommended in DB is to separate yourself from your W. Financially, emotionally, and if necessary (for your own well being), physically...

By separating yourself in these ways, THAT is how you SHOW your strength. Words... they won't be heard by her... ACTIONS are what she will eventually understand... and SHE WILL KNOW why you've done that, everyone will know... it's not passive/aggressive... it's boundaries...

I can't get over how this is not my W - she is not this person but she's chosen this path to destruction.

I'm sure it's not who your W is... in the same way that my W's "stuff" is not her, either... my W has "issues" without a doubt, as we all do... but I'd submit that MOST (normal) people would not behave in these ways... but these aren't "normal" times for us...

I have no doubt you will make a good choice. And you will have more time to take care of yourself and build yourself up before any finalization occurs...

[Telemark]

"So now I am faced with a stark choice.
1. Say nothing, continue to DB and hope the A runs it's course - disrespecting myself in the process."

I understand how you feel this would be disrespecting yourself, but what is your ultimate goal - saving your marriage or saving face?

"2. Confront her - which will either
a. Move forward with her plans for D - which will devestate me but at least I am being honest with myself."

This will drive her right toward a D as fast as she can go. You will be a threat to her "happiness" and she will seek even more emotional comfort from the OM. Trust me - been there, done that, have the WAW and impending D to prove it.

"b. Shake her up and make her see things for what they are (I know - this only happens in the movies)."

Throw this option out; this will definitely not happen. If it does, you will make lifelong history on this forum.

You now know there is an OM. She probably knows that you know. Nothing you can do will change this fact. Keep DBing and know that you are taking the only course that might give you a chance. Notice I said "might"; it could still all go south.

If I could approach my W's EA all over again, I would act like the OM never existed. I would let my W see that nothing - NOTHING - would beat me down or hurt me or keep me from working on myself to be a better man. It is that kind of strength and confidence that might get your W to sit up and notice. Anything else is wasted effort.

[luvhurts49]

I am beginning to know how you feel NYCPeter. I am beginning to believe there is OM in the picture. Of course the only difference here is that you already know and I only suspect. Unfortunately, I can't give you any sound advice, but my gut says to go with what Accuray has said.

[Accuray]

Kaffe Diem suggested:

"What I have done and is strongly recommended in DB is to separate yourself from your W. Financially, emotionally, and if necessary (for your own well being), physically..."

With physically separating, be careful with regard to decisions to move out. I think we discussed this before. Talk to your divorce lawyer before you do it.

My sister's lawyer recommended that the LBS never move out. This is for two reasons:

1) The WAW's lawyer can make an abandonment claim which hurts your custody rights

2) If everything goes south and it goes to divorce, staying in the house will give you leverage if she wants you out. Your moving out unfortunately becomes a negotiating lever.

Move into the spare room on your own if you would like to establish your boundaries, but don't move out before talking to your lawyer.

--Accuray

[luvhurts49]

Don't mean to hijack this thread, but when the W moves out but we still share the kids, does this constitute an abandonment claim and help my custody rights? And does me being in the house and not my W give me negotiating leverage? I only ask these questions because as a guy, we walk into a D or child custody issues as the underdog by default. I'm just looking to find some kind of advantage here.

[NYCPeter]

I don't plan on moving out - I may move to the spare room.
I haven't seen my W since I found out, I don't know what my reaction will be when I see her tonight.
I don't know whether I will feel comfortable sleeping in the same bed.
I won't say anything tonight - I'll stay calm and mull this for a little while longer.

[Accuray]

Talk to your lawyer luvhurts, they can advise you. I did speak to a lawyer briefly and the first thing he told me is "don't move out!"

The point on the negotiating leverage is that if your WAW is bent on D, they will want closure, and part of that closure is wanting you out. If you don't leave, they won't be happy with that and may be willing to make concessions as part of the D settlement to get you to leave earlier than you would otherwise.

My Ex-BIL stayed in the house for 8 months after receiving papers while my sister was involved with OM. That drove her crazy. She "fought back" by openly going on dates with OM while Ex-BIL watched the kids in an effort to drive him out. He stayed strong and eventually she agreed to pay HIM support in exchange for him moving out.

Ugly when it comes to that, playing these games is the opposite of DB, so from my perspective is only to be entertained when all hope is lost, or you have firmly decided you're done.

Accuray