alcoholic H decided he wants D

[verycrazy]

Maybe you can donate the mattresses to Goodwill. Take it off on your taxes.
You know, he has more issues than the obvious ones. He'll wake up one day to what he has done.
I think the smirk on his face and the skanks crap on your couch would have sent me off. You handled it like a lady.

vc

[imthemom]

Thank you VC...thats about the only thing that is getting me through this right now, im proud of the way i handled it...i have changed because the old me would have kicked him in the balls and pushed the door open and went down that hall and god knows what....
I walked away and did not turn around to look back...
but tonight the boys have gone to bed and now im finally alone with it,
its going to be a long night...lots of thoughts and images in my head, and just keep saying "i NEVER thought he would do this"...not in a million years. and I keep seeing the smile on his face as he opened the door....how did i get here????

[imthemom]

911 for tomorrow.....!!!
I just realized we have our appt. with co parenting councelor tomorrow evening...
I dont really expect him to show after what happened this morning but in case he does i need thoughts and advice on how to handle this..
If i react the way i want to i will tell him under no circumstances is he to teel or talk to our son about OW...and i dont want him around her!!!
Im starting the D process tomorrow but only because im being forced.. we are living hand to mouth while he spends his money on her...i cant do this to my kids anymore, we go without a lot!!!!
I dont know what to say, im afraid hes drinking again and i have to protect my son, but i dont want to keep him from his dad...
Im getting the rest of my things from the house tomorrow since its about to sell and then seeing the lawyer..it all feels so final..
And the sick part is, i still love him and want so badly to fix this.....
HELP!!... what do i do at this meeting tomorrow!!!!????

[verycrazy]

I don't know what goes on at these meetings, but maybe take your cue from the counselor. I guess if need be it can be brought up about ow, and you can ask the counselor how to handle not wanting S to be around ow. Your H, if he does show up, may be acting very defiant about being found out. My H was shocked at first, then got defiant, like a kid. He acted arrogant, too. I wanted to smack THAT off his face.
The drinking definitely should be brought up to the counselor if you are at all concerned he has started back up again.

It could be your H is having a MLC. It could take awhile for it to end, so if you still have some hope for your M, there are things you can do. Even if you do D, that doesn't necessarily mean it's the end.

vc

[mishka422]

There really isn't much you can do about not wanting S around OW. Unless you can prove she it unfit in some way and get a court order of protection against her, you're going to have to let it go. Trust me, not easy to do. I was disgusted at every level having to let my son visit his dad in ow's house. It grated every nerve.

Thankfully (or maybe not so much), your son is old enough to understand what his dad is doing and how much it is hurting him. He is at the age where he can decide what he does and does not want to do. I'm sure it will be hard, but let him come to his own decision about it.

Could you possibly speak to the C before stbxh gets there and explain what happened and ask for guidance on how to handle the situation?

Did your stbxh ever have an legal charges against him due to his drinking? If you believe he may be drinking again, you may need to find some proof of that if you plan on keeping S14 away from him for his own safety. If there is no safety issue then I believe your hands are tied on it.

You have a very good handle on all of this. Just reading what happened brought up so many old feelings that my stomach was churning and that is 4 years after the fact! For just finding out, you are doing remarkably well! Be proud of that and be proud to know that you have done everything you could to protect your children.

So sorry sweetie. Keep that chin up and plaster a smile on your face and step forward in confidence!

[imthemom]

long day...packing up 18 yrs of marriage in one day and reliving all the memories was exhausting. I got there about an hour before my friends because I knew I was going to have a hard time going back in our room were he had been with her just the day before... I sat on that floor and just cried for 30 min.
I think i handled it with class..i didnt trash the place and didnt break anything. actually cleanded up a little of the mess before I left, just the newspapers and stuff but i did do one thing a little spitefull....
I took the bed...LOL!!...im going to sell it but i just couldnt leave it there for him to have his fling with her in my stuff and that bed was so special to me, i loved it.
He just got home about 20 min. ago and is livid that I took it, go figure. kinda puts a wrench in his game plan i supose...
what did he think? that i would just leave stuff there for him to live happily ever after and be comfortable...its like he doesnt even realize what he has done..
have appt with lawyer tomorrow to retain her, he is threatening to be worse then my ex, which is pretty bad so im guessing this is going to get ugly. I never thought it would get to this, even if we did split up, we have always been civil and kind to each other. I just dont understand what is happening...
I dont feel like i did anything wrong, we had talked a few weeks ago about what I could have and he said take what ever you want...so i did..

[imthemom]

oh, im sure he wont show for the session now....

[verycrazy]

Too bad for him about the bed. He can get a sleeping bag.
He can get as ugly as he wishes, but in the end, your L will help you get what you need for your S and you.
Why they have to act like snapping dogs when they go through a MLC, I don't know. But, my H acted like someone I didn't know, too.
I don't think you did a darn thing wrong, he said take what you want, you took what you wanted, and he should just live with it. I hope you were able to get everything else you wanted, including S's stuff.
Sorry it was so rough for you today

vc

[imthemom]

He actually showed up for the session!!!... Unbelievable..i had no intention of bringing up OW and didnt have to. The councelor was talking to him about the fact he doesnt spend time with his son and H kept saying he didnt have a reason???????... The councelor finally said is there OW and he said yes...and shes not a OW, shes my girlfriend.
I was crushed and basically cried like an idiot the rest of the session..
He brought up the bed several times...what is that about??
S was so sad tonight when i got home, the boxs and stuff made him upset and he again thought i had gone to sign D papers..he didnt go with his friends..he stayed home and was sad and pissy.
I sent H an email about spending time with him, he really needed him now and he needed to put the bs aside and be his dad..he answered well im pissed that after 17 yrs of marriage all i have left is a couch.....?????!!!!!!.
ARE YOU KIDDING ME??????
I lost it, i know i shouldnt have but i replied.....it wasnt pretty..i said we shouldnt talk about this now because the only thing i have to say is after 17 yrs of marriage I CAUGHT YOU IN OUR BED WITH SOME SLUT..
Stupid...i wanna kick myself but to late now...
He doesnt even see what he has done....

[25yearsmlc]

Very sorry you are here, particularly for your recent discovery. In some ways it explains a lot.

After facing, or trying to face, all the damage his drinking has caused, it must be very appealing to him to meet someone new who doesn't have to forgive or move forward overlooking so much in the past. See, she helps him feel LESS responsible for the pain around him. He can rationalize the affair b/c you acted distant or rejected him or whatever...he's a master of rationalization; addicts and alcoholics specialize in that. No doubt he's rationalized it already.

Also His saying he didn't want you to find out "That way" and "wanted to tell you but couldn't" is SO CLICHED....like he's noble for not wanting to intentionally break his vows AND tell you to your face.

For someone who just went thru an 18 month 12 step program, he's not showing much integrity, imo. I've been through one and I'd be very disappointed in myself if I could not face my h, whom I was now blaming for my issues, the truth. AND for him to let some c tell your son that HE wants a divorce, and without you there...is stunningly weak. Talk about shame and fear being his guide...

if he's in touch with his feelings, I assume it's shame...(but that'a s big "IF")

Gee, guess you should say "thanks" to him for wishing you'd found out about OW....some...other...way?? Like what way? A way that cost him NO discomfort?? Oh THAT way...as if that "way" exists. He's out of it. Do you understand what I'm saying?

Yes it IS hard to tell someone that you broke your vows and want out, especially after years of drinking your way thru life...
But to be fair, it's possible you are Not accurately mind/face reading here, b/c you are interpreting his facial expressions at the scene, and I"m not sure that's objective...or important for now. Some people get goofy and almost silly acting when they are truly embarrassed.

(My h is an MD. When he first became a doctor, he almost seemed to laugh nervously when he had bad news. It was a nervous coughing like noise but almost sounded like a laugh. When I heard him once on the phone I then imitated him afterwards and he was mortified...so he actually got some coaching on it b/c although we could laugh about it at the time, we envisioned how problematic it could become...but it's common. Let's not get bogged down in his facial expressions...in HIS MIND, he apologized for "how you found out"...)

Although we can wish you'd handled his gestures in recovery differently, (when you said you were resentful and punitive) you were human and flawed. And you had put up with a lot in the past, so maybe that's when it surfaced for you. I don't know.
I DO know the feeling of "oh great. After all that CRAP I put up with, NOW you are all better and NOW you dump ME??"

I've seen it happen many times. Thing is, they are NOT "all better", they are simply sober, if in fact he is...and now HE is blaming YOU for his past drinking so, don't think he's perfect now and that you only got the crappy part of life. That's a lie HE may want you to believe, but it's not true. He's got plenty of damaged goods being carried around, still...and after 18 months of a recovery program I'd love to know the other issues you two have discovered in therapy.
What happened to those issues? It wasn't all about "HE DRINKS", right? I mean even HE must have known there's other stuff...
BTW did you attend family t with him while he was in recovery? Did your son go too?

long day...packing up 18 yrs of marriage in one day and reliving all the memories was exhausting.

luckily, you do NOT have to do this again. Ever...your choice...


I got there about an hour before my friends because I knew I was going to have a hard time going back in our room were he had been with her just the day before... I sat on that floor and just cried for 30 min.
I think i handled it with class..i didnt trash the place and didnt break anything. actually cleanded up a little of the mess before I left, just the newspapers and stuff but i did do one thing a little spitefull....
I took the bed...LOL!!...im going to sell it but i just couldnt leave it there for him to have his fling with her in my stuff and that bed was so special to me, i loved it.

So get a new bed for yourself, that YOU like and don't have to share, til you're ready...enough said.



He just got home about 20 min. ago and is livid that I took it, go figure. kinda puts a wrench in his game plan i supose...
what did he think? that i would just leave stuff there for him to live happily ever after and be comfortable...its like he doesnt even realize what he has done..

He does NOT know what he has done, even though he's supposedly sober now. (Perhaps blacking out would be preferable to him??) Thing is, shaming him won't work well, and punishing him overtly only supports his negative views of the m right now.

The more you fight and the more anger you show, the more he feels that he "had" to drink in the past and therefore the more it was your fault...


have appt with lawyer tomorrow to retain her, he is threatening to be worse then my ex,

Not sure what that means...but on what basis is he threatening that? I mean, b/c you sold a mattress? Seriously, Please do NOT give in to your fears of whatever it is...that paralyzes you or keeps you from protecting your son or yourself.. Don't even go there.
He just finished a recovery program...and now has an OW...and wants a divorce...he's not the first guy to do this and the court has seen it before...same goes for his threats.

Man, for someone JUST completing their 12 steps he sure isn't owning much...was he better abouty that in the program?

Is he arguing that you "punished" him and that pushed him to OW?? Okay...he may say so. Let him keep blaming others for his choices, (but that sure doesn't sound like a 12 step approach to life.) And it does not change what YOU need to do.


which is pretty bad so im guessing this is going to get ugly. I never thought it would get to this, even if we did split up, we have always been civil and kind to each other. I just dont understand what is happening...


hold on some now...So when he was laying down drunk and not available for even going out to eat dinner b/c he wanted to drink, he was "always civil"? You both were "always kind" to each other? really?

Let's not revise things the other way b/c we KNOW he's revising the marriage into a hellish nightmare that "made" him drink,

but don't you do the opposite and make it out to be a "Civil and kind" m, when he was absent, mentally, a LOT... I'm sorry, but me thinks you are recalling your history a bit too rosily...be real.

You love this man and want the marriage to last- but maybe it won't- and if it does not, that does not mean it was a great wonderful m and that your h was a wonderful flawless man who inexplicably lost his way and made poor choices OR whom you forced into the arms of OW with your punitive ways... He's made years of bad choices...it's a pattern.

Have you gone to any Al-Anon meetings or read up on co-dependency? I highly HIGHLY suggest it...

I dont feel like i did anything wrong, we had talked a few weeks ago about what I could have and he said take what ever you want...so i did..

his point, likely, will be that your motivation was not a healthy or objective or well intended one. He will suggest you acted out of anger or spite and he'll probably try to say that's "typical" of you.

No matter what you do now, it's crucial you NOT Show your anger....seriously, as sick with rage as you may feel, it's NOT going to help you or your son.

Remember that...

*Make this all about the numbers for now. NOT b/c you have given up on the m, but b/c you MUST survive with your/your son's welfare as paramount...

*Plus, it's no pursuit. No pressure...no conflict...let the Ls figure it out. Costs more in the short run but can save a fortune in the long run with more clarity AND can save you so much pain by not feeling screwed over or not protecting your son b/c you wanted to "keep the peace"...

*PLUS, it gives him some reality therapy- about what he will have to pay and do...which he sorely lacks as he's been enveloped in a supportive environment for months and months.

I would not be shocked if he met her thru the program...(which means they are both off track, but that's also predictable.)

MY fil was a raging alcoholic and went thru 3 wives before he got sober...AND still he was a dry drunk (Not addressing his issues but blaming ALL problems on simple alcohol...) til his 4th wife, the woman I believe he truly was better able to love, separated from him b/c of the drinking--her leaving SO scared him... THEN he became a "recovering alcoholic" instead of simply a dry drunk...
meaning, HE CHANGED...for the better... and this was after the age of 60. So I've seen it happen...

fortunately his last wife left him before she was indifferent. So when he changed, she returned...and that was about 15 years ago. They seem happy. He's a better man than before. She loves him with an iron fist in a velvet glove, if you know what I mean....

So I'd suggest you see a L for sure. Find out your rights...it's empowering to know...of course You do NOT "have to DO" anything, but you MUST KNOW the numbers b/c his threats are probably impotent...but it'll help YOU to know that...know what's real and what's just fear...act on and make decisions based on what's real.

As my DB coach said, Lose the anger, at least in front of him. I know that is hard to do...like Mother Teresa hard....but anger ONLY fuels his choices and negative images he's clinging to in order to justify his wanting the divorce....the OW is not the cause of his wanting the divorce. Starting fresh and hiding from the shame of his past is, imo, at least a chunk of this.
[i]
And your anger really won't help you maintain the image of the dignified woman of strength you want to be right now...in the face of betrayal, THIS is what you must model for your son, for he is watching you now.[/i]

And someday your son will face a setback or betrayal of his own, so show him what it looks like to cope with that kind of grief, and recover. Show him that although your pain is deep, it is NOT fatal and it is NOT Eternal.

You will be happy again. You will laugh again, care again, save for the future, and love....again. We don't know if that will be with your h, or someone else. Your choice...but for now...

Read about co-dependencies...sometimes having a spouse with " a problem" keeps us from looking at and owning our own. The real journey is an inward one...it will take a lot of bravery on your part to face the role you played in the marriage and it's problems, and to become the woman you want to become; i.e. a woman only a fool would leave.

But today, all you need to do is learn what your rights are, protect yourself and your son and have faith that this does get better. And know that it does.