W is angrier after my 180's - time + consistency

[workinghardguy]

Sorry, forgot to comment on the other post... don't read into it 2TP. Again, it's just logistical. She's leaving you with the kids, she should let you know. If you want to read anything into it, take it that she doesn't dislike or despise you so much that she won't even communicate the most basic of parental responsibilities.

I have been there btw. After my W caught me spying on her FB account the next week and half was horrible in our house. She was so angry with me she could barely look at me or talk to me. She literally would not have told me she was running to the store. She would've told the kids and then when I wondered where she was they would fill me in. We're past that condition now, but it was terrible. So yes... it can be even more frigid and cold in your house.

[Ajay]

I had the FB issues with mine. Not spying, but she used it as a stick to wound me with. status changed to single and things posted she knew would hurt. In the end I just closed down my FB account completely so I would never see and now she has one less weapon to subtly attack me with.

[BklynMom]

The driving thing was brilliant! That is a change that cant be ignored because she becomes engaged physically in actually driving. Dont get too excited but it looks was a very good weekend:)

[2thepoint]

The inviting is pursuing. Don't pursue. If she ever wants to go along, she'll invite herself, you don't need to do it.

WHG - You are right and I should know better. She just seemed genuinely interested that I couldn't help myself, and didn't think about the potential negative side effects. I will do better!

BM - Thanks for the vote of confidence. I really am trying! I do feel like this was a good weekend. But I know that I'm a long way from being out of the woods.

New week ahead. I'm hoping for more positive signs. In the meantime, I will be checking with a L to better understand the risks associated with a move-out and other related matters. Also, I'm going to go to another DivorceCare session and continue work on the house. And continue work on me and my 180's/GAL activities...

[workinghardguy]

She probably was interested in your experience...trying tom understand why went, but there's a long, long road from there to going to church with you.

And I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here, but I think it provides an instructive opportunity... Look at the invite from her perspective. How would that firstnvisit work exactly? Just start at introductions. How do you introduce her?

Hi, I'm Jim and this is my estranged and soon to be divorced wife Ellen... Hmm, no that's not quite right. Well, can't just call her wife... Friend? Soon to be ex-wife? See where this is going? Just the terror of having to be in that sitch is enough to make her run.

My w, about a month back, thought at one point I was inviting her to go to church. She reacted very negatively and I was caught flat-footed because inviting her was the farthest thing from my mind.

[2thepoint]

WHG - You are right. Sometimes I have brief (very brief!) moments where I forget I have a marriage crisis on my hands. After 18 years it has just become 2nd nature to refer to "Ellen" as my wife. Thanks again for the reminder!

[2thepoint]

God give me strength!

This morning after getting the boys off to school, I hear my wife sobbing uncontrollably and it goes on for quite awhile. So I go upstairs and knock on her door and ask to come in. She pulls it together and allows me in. I ask her what has her so upset and she looses it again! All I can do is hold her. It is literally breaking my heart to see her in such absolute pain.

She calms down some and we start to talk and all she can say is we need $$ and one of has to move! I reassure that $$ is not a problem and she says then one of us has to move.

She clearly is stressed about her parents coming in a few weeks and things not being settled between us. She is also stressed about the children and how they will react when they too get the bomb. She said that she feels terrible that our youngest son apologizes to her for being scared and waking her up in the middle of the night.

She starts crying uncontrollably again and I reach out to hold her again. She tells me that she is so angry and hurt and that she can not take it any more. I validate and try to assure her that I don't want to hurt her anymore and she says it has been going on for too many years. I tell her that I am sorry that I didn't realize how long she had been angry and hurt. She said that she has learned that she is great at hiding it.

I ask her what has to happen for her to feel comfortable when her parents arrive and she gets visibly angry at this and says quit trying to analyze me! This BTW is something my DB coach suggested I do. I tell my W that I am not trying to analyze, I just want to help her so she won't be so upset.

She reiterates that one of us needs to move, this week! I ask her what the goal is here and she says that we need to move forward with the separation and then on to the D! She says she wants to reassure the boys that we will continue to be loving and supportive parents and that we will see each other every day and that they can stay where they want.

She goes on to say that she sees what I have been doing (i.e. changes with the boys) and it is great! And she goes on to say that it is very clear that I am trying really hard to change my behavior but it is too late for us. I need to do this for myself and the children but not for her. She also says that she knows that I never intentionally meant to hurt her but she is hurt and angry and it is too late for us!

I asked her if she has spoken to her mother yet and she starts to cry again and says that she can't get the words out, that she has tried but she can't do it! She says "look at me, I'm a wreck!" "I am this close to totally losing it!"

Now I am scared myself. I tell her that if I'm out of the picture, what is she going to do during times like this? I tell her that I am very concerned for her. She says she'll be fine! But will she? I ask her if she is getting any sleep at night and she says no, are you? I tell her, very little sleep for me too. I asked her what is it that triggers her to be so upset and she doesn't really answer that question.

I feel so helpless and I'm beginning to doubt that any of this DB'ng is doing any good. Maybe even more harm than good. I feel like my actions (180's and GAL) are creating additional guilt and it is more than she can handle!

Late last night after everyone was in bed, I start to hear voices coming from up stairs, so I go out into the main part of the house and hear my W talking on the phone to someone. I can't make out what she is saying but there are long periods of time where she is the one doing the talking followed by long periods of silence (presumably the person on the other end doing the talking). Of course I'm sure this is the OM, the one she is having the EA with.

I can't help but feel like part of her current emotional turmoil is being caused by pressure she is getting from the OM. For all I know he is saying you've got to make a move... for us! And this is creating great conflict in her mind. I wonder how much of what she believes is this long buried hurt and anger is being fueled by the OM! And possibly by her IC.

I told her that I care deeply for her and that if what is needed is for me to leave then I will be out by the end of the week. And with that I end the conversation.

As I type this, I no longer hear her crying. Maybe that is what she needed; some reassurance that things will move forward.

Again, I am beginning to have my doubts that DB will work in my situation. After all, we have been M for 18 years. If my W has been angry and hurt for as long as she says, maybe there is no hope for us.

Sigh!

[gunny]

Hey 2,
Sorry you are going through this today. Pretty emotional stuff. Sounds similar to my s 2 weeks before she left.

I see some positives here. She acknowledged your changes, and how positive they were for your r with the kids. You are getting advice from both sides on whether you should leave or stay, eventually you will have to go with what your gut says.

When I was reading your post from the day before about her asking you about church, and how good you felt about her asking about it, I said to myself, watch, I bet the next day she pulls back, almost as if to compensate for being nice the day before. I've read about this happening in other posts on this board. Perhaps her behavior today fits that pattern.

On the letter to your w, I would strongly advise not doing it. She knows your thougths, you have already been told control was one of your issues, she is liable to look at what you are saying, i.e you love her, but if she wants to end the m you will comply, as you trying to control the sitch again, she may tell you that you didnt listen to her the first time she broached the subject of leaving you, and this just proves it. I am saying this from experience. I gave my s a similar letter in the second month of our sitch, and it resulted in her moving her timetable for leaving drastically. She told me later that me writing the letter showed that i did not take her seriously when she first dropped the bomb. That I wasnt listening. Even though I thought writing the letter was perfectly justified, and my IC concurred, she saw it differntly.

Just my 2 kopeks!!

[workinghardguy]

2TP... I would actually take much of that as progress. A few thoughts/comments...

I still would not leave. You are owning way to much of her crap. She is the one pushing to end this. She is the one bringing this pain on the family. Will it cause hurt? Damn straight it will. But guess, what? There's a solution to that pain - work on the M. Choose to end it with the OM. Choose your family over your own personal gratification and then work on mutual gratification within the confines of your M.

You are making this too easy on her. To be blunt, stop being a doormat.

I again say... do not leave, not voluntarily. She has tools available to her to make you leave. Make her use them if that's what she wants so damn bad. If she wants you out, she can file for divorce or separation and request that as part of the order. You walk out now then she, yet again, does not have to actually do anything about her sitch.

DBing is really about you, not about her. It's about making a life for you. If you want to be in the house, with your kids then do that. If you want to be away from the drama, then do that.

This is where the power of the detachment comes into play... and you do not appear anywhere nearly enough detached in your post.

I tell her that if I'm out of the picture, what is she going to do during times like this?

What does it matter? That is HER problem, let her figure it out. You are owning the concern about this - don't. She's a big girl and wants to be on her own. This is part of that.

She says she'll be fine! But will she?

Again, she said she'll be fine. But you feel the need to own whether she will or not. Stop assuming any responsibility for how she feels or acts. She is choosing to feel and act this way. There are ways she can not feel this way. Life is about choices and living with the choices we make. Yes, you may have hurt her in the past but she was complicit in this too. But you're working on improving and what is she doing? Own yourself and let her own herself.

I can't help but feel like part of her current emotional turmoil is being caused by pressure she is getting from the OM.

Ok... and this is the one that got me the most... So you are going to move out in order to ease the pressure between her and the OM? Seriously? What? You're worried that it won't work out between those two? That some rain is coming into their sunny field? C'mon 2TP... stop taking the bait... stop being the caretaker.

Think of it this way... what if OM walked into your house right now and said, "Hey, you being here is really putting a kink in this thing between your W and me. Think you could help a fellow out by moving out of YOUR house and leaving YOUR kids? Thanks chap, I appreciate it".

Personally, I would hope you'd lay him out and then toss his a$$ on the sidewalk. But based on your post above you're actually willing to say "ok... just let me get my things".

Her breaking down is because the Piper is coming to collect his bill. LET HER PAY IT. She will either have to:
a) continue to tolerate the limbo
b) terminate the OM and continue limbo
c) terminate the OM and re-engage you
d) actually DO something and file for D or S.

It sounds to me like you're doing everything to avoid option d. But how is you moving out really any different than option d? Divorce/Separation is just the legal codification of what already essentially exists. Don't focus on it and don't be afraid of it. Embrace it, acknowledge it, and realize you will be ok after it because the new, better, stronger you CAN do this!

You've been DBing and working this. Don't collapse under the pressure. Be the man she needs you to be, which includes not folding like a house of cards when the pressure gets turned up.

What triggered you to work on you? Crisis. Your W dropping the bomb which created an immediate crisis. So now your W is going to have her time of crisis. She is going to have to do something that puts her at odds with who she wants to be. This means she will have to change.

I am not promising she will change into something you want or recognize... but by saving her from her SELF-IMPOSED crisis, you are making things way to easy on her and saving her from having to face any type of change.

[workinghardguy]

One other things 2TP... I've seen it said here on the boards that a rough estimation is this whole thing takes one month for every year you're married. That certainly isn't scientific or studied... just something.

But if it's even moderately true then you're only at the very front-end of this thing... so I'd say it's way to early to give up on DBing.