GALing and Boundaries with XH

[AJM]

..And that Antonia, is exactly what I meant when I said to explore things for yourself. Part of it anyway.

Via con Dios, Amiga...

[totallygutted]

Totallygutted, I have also had the thought that if we didn't have the closeness, the loss of intimacy would be easier to take, but I'm sure that years from now we'll be glad we had it overall. I look at my parents and see 2 people who've never had it, and while they don't know what they're missing, I feel badly for them just the same.

I really get the idea that we have to work on ourselves and we have to be good with ourselves before we can be good in a rel. with someone else. And I'm not saying I'm anywhere near perfect, but I feel like I have been very actively working on myself for over a year now, and I really don't know what more I can "do" to work on myself.

I have followed more dreams and banished more anxieties in the past 15 months than in all the 41 years prior to that combined. I won't run down my list here--since I put all my GAL type accomplishments or actions on another post where someone asked for us to make that list--but suffice it to say that I've grown by leaps and bounds professionally, personally, AND spiritually, and I've found a way to make all those parts of me connect so they are constantly reinforcing each other. I mean, sure, I still have goals...I want to become the foremost scholar on the writer I'm writing a book on, but that takes time, time to finish the current book, to get the reviews, to write more pieces on him. I want to become a better meditator and learn more of Buddhist teachings, but again, that takes time (this weekend I'm doing an online retreat that focuses for several hours each day on that path). I'm working on being more compassionate and forgiving, and I find ways consistently to practice these things.

I feel like I'm doing all that I want or need to do to be in a good place myself, and I'm already in a good place, and I just need to follow through with what I set into motion.

I guess what I'm saying is I don't know where else to go from here. I don't see that there is any more to "learn" about myself. I've spent SO LONG delving really deep. I've uncovered it all. When I feel XH's words still stinging, I know precisely WHY they sting. When more time passes they will sting less than they do now. No more introspection is going to change that.

So I think at the heart of why I want to meet someone is that I feel like everything I can do for me I've done/am doing, and I want the chance to try the "new me" with someone else. I feel like I have all these magnificent skills for learning how to be a better person in a relationship and I don't get to use them ;-)

Part of my problem was I though I was already pretty well along my path. I had a home office and did the bulk of the household stuff between my work schedule, laundry, cooking 2 of three meals a day, taking the kids to school, appointments, cleaning around the house. I was very attentive to my wife, made breakfast most mornings because I'm an early riser, talked to her everyday about work, the kids, everything. The only thing we didn't do, mainly because of tight money was go out a lot, I think we lost our connection there.

I made a list of everything I could think off that could use work, most of them seemed pretty minor, but I've worked on them anyway. Most of the standard "Biggies" often dumped on about husbands ( all the housework stuff and child rearing)I had already been doing for 15 years ;~). I didn't drink, do drugs, seldom went anywhere without my wife or kids, so I set my goals on the physical, mental and spiritual.

But as you say at some point you begin to wonder "what's left", and even more important how in h&ll are you going to find someone who's actually up to the "New You" ? From what I read on these forums a lot of us have or are in the process of becoming incredibly "Enlightened" beings. Just where and how are we going to find our counterparts in this screwed up, baggage filled, negative world where most have been married two and three times?

This is becoming my biggest concern, that when I'm ready for a new relationship after all this work on myself, the majority of those I'm going to meet will be carrying substantial baggage. I'll have "To Settle" for someone with "Issues" in order to have any love life at all. Anyone else feel this way?

[AntoniaB]

I get what you're saying completely. There were tons of things I had my XH do "for" me in terms of running a house...aside from decorating it and cooking and laundry, he did so much of the work here, and he did all the yard work, which is a lot. Well I learned how to do all of it now and I'd never see myself going back to the "old" Antonia just because a guy was in my life and saying "you do this for me." If anything I'll have to learn HOW to let a guy step in and do something for me, if only because I think some guys like to take care of some things because it's a way they show they care.

I'm just SO different than the old me.

And while I think "all" of us who go through divorces have baggage, I think those of us on this board who really work on ourselves through the process are NOT the norm. I know if it were not for this board, I wouldn't have made half the changes I made to the point where they have stuck. I'd probably be the same woman I was, bound to repeat all my same mistakes on myself or with someone else.

But of all the people I meet who are divorced, either one year past or 20 years past, the vast majority do not talk about themselves learning anything from it or changing themselves for the better. They are, by and large, people who carry an enormous amount of hatred for the ex, who say hateful things even 20 years down the road, who run down the ex, and who simply say that they were never part of the problem and that they just had to find someone else who was a better person. They never forgive.

I just haven't met in person ever anyone who has the attitude of self-improvement and forgiveness and the ability to be grateful for the years they had, except for the people on this board.

So yeah, that narrows a narrow field even more...because the last thing I want is a relationship with someone who still carries a lot of hate or spite for their ex or exes. I mean in some cases, yeah. The ex was the devil incarnate. But I'm talking about those people who emerge from a divorce situation and never take a second to look at themselves.

[AntoniaB]

Incidentally there is a funny show on HBO or Showtime (I forget) that just started called "Englightened." We talked about it in my meditation group, because so many of us started down the meditation path because of a major life trauma that we couldn't navigate without some form of help, and now that we're all seeing that it affects your whole life to become "enlightened" and sort of open to experiencing pain and pleasure and letting it all ride, we all feel like we want to tell other people "look! this is the way out of your suffering!" And yet people really resist it. If any of us were to go to someone who's "stuck" 5 years past divorce and talk up what we've all done here, we'd be met with resistance or ridicule.

Anyway that program is a funny look at a woman who becomes "enlightened" and centered and peaceful, and the difficulty she faces when she realizes how unique she is in a world where most people are stuck, willingly. I think enlightened is a good word to describe the people on this board, but the only people who stick around are the ones "ready" for it, and most people just arent'. It's almost like you have to lose EVERYTHING to get to the point where you're ready...

[AntoniaB]

Well, the thing that I was sort of thinking in the back of my mind happened...and this is VERY off topic from the stuff above.

I have wondered what I'd do if one of my cats became ill, possibly needing to be euthanized, and whether I'd involve XH or not.

It's happened...and I think everyone thinks I'm jumping to conclusions here, but I think my hunch/gut is right, and I think one of my, as in "our", cats has cancer. I have 10 cats--4 of whom XH barely knows as I adopted them when he was in the process of bailing. The other 6 are old timers. One is about 15 years old. She went nearly blind 4 years ago and we moved her from outdoor life to indoor life. She gets around fine as long as her environment isn't altered a lot, and she's on bp meds to keep her from going totally blind. She has a lot of skin cancer lesions from living outdoors so long, and she may have a nasal tumor as she has some permanent congestion issues. But she's pretty much a happy cat. Well, it appears that overnight (virtually) her lymph nodes have gone haywire on her right side of her body. Huge, firm lump, swollen joint/musculature, pain...

I just have a feeling that this is the final cancer blowup that the vet suspected would happen someday...her coat is SO bad lately, and she's been hugely vocal and crying.

I gave her some pain meds and she stopped all the crying. She trembles if I push on the lump.

I have a feeling that they'll tell me that I can either throw hundreds of dollars into diagnosis and then find it's cancer, or I can euthanize her. But surgery on the lymphs...I just think I'd be trying to stop the inevitable and I don't know how well a blind cat recuperates with an invasive surgery.

So...I have never had to euthanize a pet. XH and I only had to do this once, and he took care of it and would never speak of it as it was our first cat we had in college and he and I were both distraught over her death about 6 years ago.

I'm not going to say I can't handle it alone. It's going to be awful, but I've faced worse.

I guess the reason I'm writing is that there is a tiny part of me that feels guilty, like I should tell him that this is coming..but there is also a larger part of me that says "Antonia, he's forgotten the cats. He's never inquired about them since last Christmas (he sent me a check for xmas for 1000.00 and said it was "for me and the cats to have a nice Christmas.") If you tell him, what's your reason, other than to try to make him feel some of the pain you're going to feel, and what's the point anymore? Just feel it on your own."

So...thoughts? That's where I'm at right now. I expect to take her to the vet Monday a.m. and may end up "doing the deed" on Monday. I almost feel like it is better to do it faster than sit here for days prolonging my agony when she clearly has a serious problem here.

Honestly I'll be shocked beyond belief if this is not cancer. There are just too many signs.

[AJM]

Antonia, sorry to hear about the cat. That's no fun but you don't want them suffering either. I don't envy the choice.

As for your ex? I see no reason to tell him based on what you say. I think this is a test for you to do this on your own.

Just my thoughts. Sorry it has to be done.

AJ

[AntoniaB]

AJ I think it's a test too.

The hugely ironic thing is that this weekend was the online Buddhist retreat that I elected to join. I'm not a religious person at all, but there are so many Buddhist teachings that completely reinforce the DBing that I've learned here, that I'm very interested in what this "path" for living one's life has to teach me.

Well first of all, the retreat has been about cultivating PATIENCE. Yeah. In light of my issues prior to the cat issue, clearly I need to develop patience. And the second thing it has been about is this Hopi Indian prophecy that reads that we must let go of the shore and flow down the middle of the river...that the shore is probably misery and pain but it's FAMILIAR, and we must let go of that and ride down this river, not knowing what's coming, that that's the path of the "warrior."

Well, the path of the past is to involve XH in anything that pains me. SURE I've handled pain on my own a long time now and not involved him. But this...this isn't a house issue or a work issue or a personal issue. This is an issue where I would be able to "get away" with contacting XH...as in, no one would probably find it odd for me to email and say "hey, a cat that you loved needs to be let go. Can you help?" or "would you send me loving thoughts for what I have to go through?"

I just talked to a friend who was estranged from her XH, and when she needed animals euthanized, she contacted him, and he did it, FOR HER.

And I do think that I have to be a "warrior" about this. I feel like I have got to face this without him. And furthermore, I've got to NOT TELL HIM about it.

I keep asking myself what purpose it would serve to tell him. And all I come back to is this: "you want to involve him in your pain...you want him to feel guilty for leaving and for making you face this alone."

And if I am truly trying to live up to what I'm learning, between this board and the Buddhist teachings, which are SO interconnected in so many ways (as are other religious teachings I'm sure), then I have got to face this without him, before and after.

I know I've already made my decision. I think the only reason I'm posting all this is for other people to tell them this:

If you are faced with a time that you have a choice to make, to involve your XH or XW in something in your life, please ask yourself WHY you want to involve them.

If the only reason you can come up with is that you want them, on some level, to "feel your pain", then fight that instinct.

Feel your own pain. It doesn't serve the world to put your pain on anyone else. Even if they "deserve" it.

It's the path of the warrior. And it hurts like hell. But it's life and you're living it, fully, and you're not running from it.

Thanks for indulging my quasi-spiritual rant :-)

[AntoniaB]

PS. AJM you're not on the alt, are you? I am connected with most people on the alt but not you...

[beatrice]

Hi, I am so sorry about your cat. I do think it would be good to inform your xh. I would do that about anything serious concerning my children. I no longer think of them as 'ours', although interestingly xh always talks of them as 'ours'.

But I would inform him that the cat has terminal cancer, is in pain, and this is what you are doing. End of story. It is actually more detached imo to tell him than not to.

it isn't guilting him, isn't expecting him to become involved, or do anything. Just give him the information. He might want to see the cat, or he might not, but you have given him information and a choice.

However unreasonable my xh is, I try and treat him as I would an old friend. He doesn't act that way, but that isn't the way I choose to respond to him.

[seeking answers]

Antonia,

I'm so sorry about your beloved kitty, and I agree with Beatrice on this. Tell your XH what you've decided.

Long ago, I went to school for, and then worked as a Vet Tech. I can tell you that a cat that is 15 years old has reached very old age and attests to the excellent care you have given her.

As far as surgery goes, at her advanced age she probably wouldn't survive it, and you're correct that you'd only be trying to delay the inevitable.

It takes a strong, loving, compassionate person to put their pet's pain to an end knowing how much you'll hurt and miss them.

I had a very old mare, and in the spring before H left 2 years ago, I talked to him about euthanizing her because her quality of life was rapidly declining. At the time he agreed with me because it started to become difficult for her to get around as arthritis had severely affected her joints.

About a month and a half after he left I had my Vet come and humanely put her to sleep as I wouldn't put her through another winter. Our son told his Dad about it after the fact, and I was very surprised at how emotional S said my H had become about it.

I'm telling this story just because I wished I had informed H that the time had come because he may have wanted to come to say goodbye, and I didn't give him that chance.