is he still? i think the dynamic has changed and now she's the WAS.
had you said "he was the WAS now you're the WAS..." i would agree without reservation, and think you're Dr Seuss. Okay point taken Ken. True. HE Probably sees himself as the LBSer now. I get that.
put yourself in his head, and he's hearing all the things many of our WASs have said
"i love you but cant live with you" "i want this to work but cant do it right now" "its only temporary" "i'm moving out only because i need space" "i'll come back"
all textbook WAS phrases.
its only because we believe DueinMay's words that we choose not to see this. so far I'm with you....mostly
if he was here, telling us his story from the past 2 months, we'd tell him to DB, GAL, she has OM, etc. and this includes not saying ILY and not initiating ML. Now I'd part ways with this. I'd ask him what SHE SAID the problems were and I suspect we'd all help him see HIS role in this.
and it wouldnt surprise me one bit if she did become an actual WAS. i think she's already on her way to becoming one.
Hope not. But it's always possible with LBSers who grow a lot and get on their feet and stare, objectively at the poop they were put through.
Sometimes they don't want to risk their hard earned gains to go back to crazy land.
But I have a lot of hope for May b/c i think once upon a time they had a strong sounding marriage.
I think they'd both like to go back to it, with a new attitude. They are trying to find their way to that place...I think.
On the whole, they sound like fundamentally healthy, smart, good hearted and loving people.
Given that, and their past m being a good one, (once upon a time) they have a good shot at this.
((( )))
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
i agree with what DueinMay is doing, its not a perfect solution, so i'm just trying to point out some potential pitfalls. and trying to remind her she also needs to try to view things from both perspectives. i think it'll be easy for her to get caught up in the excitement of moving in with her sister.
i'm also trying to offer a guy's perspective.
as far as him not saying ILY, i completely understand how/why he doesnt. and i dont think he should. it would seem desperate, as if he's saying it only because she says he has to.
not because he does, or that he's ready to, or that he believes it himself, but because she told him he has to. that makes it meaningless.
from his perspective, his wife is moving out, her words and actions dont completely jive. to expect him to believe what she's telling him, while theres a moving truck outside, is asking a lot of any person.
if it were me, i wouldnt believe it.
from what she's been writing here, he's being doing much of what she's asked. he's been saying ILY through actions, work, growing. he's doing the hard stuff. actions speak louder than words and all that.
and yes, i understand the action of saying ILY is what DueinMay is missing.
and yes, its nice to hear it, it justifies our existence. it validates us. it hurts to not hear it for years - oh wait thats me, back to DueinMay.
i think its necessary that DueinMay question why the actions arent enough. and is the words an arbitrary sticking point that she's using to justify her decision to move in with her sister. if he had said ILY, would there just be something else that sticks?
which is fine, its her right, theres nothing wrong with it, there has to be a line drawn somewhere, as long as she's brutally honest with herself about it.
but what if his saying ILY is predicated by her moving home?
while her moving home is predicated on his saying ILY?
are they The Zax?
"In a ham and eggs breakfast, the hen is involved, but the pig is committed".
May, can you ask him once if he does love you and if his answer is "Yes", will that be enough
for now? OR
tell him what it means to you and then
we will at least know we're having a "chicken or the egg" "Mexican Standoff" thingy...
((( )))
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Things are going along pretty well. I'm all moved into the apt as is sister. H has only given me a little hell over it all.
I still need a lot of work. A coworker of mine had a baby shower on Thursday. I had to really grin and bear it and still teared up a few moments before I walked in. It was hard to smile through everyone making comments like, "brings memories back, huh?" (I was the last one to have a shower... they know nothing about this separation). I still see pregnant women and either become angry or very sad.
H is very much doing things like what Ken said. He's saying, "why should I say ILY if you're moving out? Why should we ML if you don't want to live with me".
My rational is if we were dating, I would not move in with him if he were not saying/doing those things. So why should I move back home if he's not saying/doing those things??
I'm not trying to discount the actions. I'm really not. I know they speak much higher volumes. And on the same note, I don't want him to say ILY, just because I asked for it. It ruins the validity of it.
He's going to Florida this week. This will be a test of my anxiety. Thus far, I'm not concerned. He'll be back on Friday. I think I plan on going to the house while he's gone and do some tidying up. He's really been trying to keep things nice while I've been gone, but it's hard given that we're really trying to focus on being good spouses and good parents. I think if I organize at least my stuff and D's stuff in a way that shows that I plan on spending some good quality time there, then that will put his mind at ease. It still kind of looks like a tornado blew through in the aftermath of me moving out.
I plan to take him out to eat when he comes home on Friday for our anniversary (which is tomorrow). He wanted to take me out this past Friday, but we simply could not get it coordinated for someone to watch D. I'm sure I can this week though.
I plan on setting up something with another counselor in the same practice as our MC for me to get some IC. Now that I'm not so transient and we are definitely piecing, I think I can get some good work done on me and forgivenss and all that good stuff.
Oh, and 25, on your suggestions on kiddo #2: Oh yeah, we will be waiting a while. Not a super long while, but I've always said I wanted D to hit certain developmental milestones before we start trying for #2 (even before D was born I said this). And I think it's reasonable to have expectations for our R before we have #2. Just like I want there to be certain milestones met in our R before I permanently move back home.
I figure those milestones are things we can talk about in MC and in my IC. Because I'm not entirely sure what those are yet.
Just thought I would update everyone to let you all know that I have found a new IC that's in the same practice as our MC. I'll be going every Saturday starting next week. H seems happy about the idea.
Today is our anniversary. I wished him a happy anniversary via text (remember, he's still out of town on business), and he reciprocated. I asked if he wanted to have dinner with just me on Friday night (sister said she would watch D). He said he wanted to see D too, to which I said that would be fine, but going out to dinner would probably be a little late for her (she goes to bed at 7:30 and he doesn't get back from his trip until 5ish that day). I told him whatever he wanted to do was fine with me. He said he'd think about it.
Even though I've only been in the apt a very short while, I'm finding myself missing him more. Which is good, it's what I was aiming for. My fuse for H is still much too short for me to be tolerable to live with, in my opinion. I mean, I guess that could be his judgment call as to whether or not I'm tolerable, but honestly, I don't want to be pissed off all the time either. It's not fun to be dishing it out or receiving it.
Old habits die hard. He's getting a lot better with his faulty thoughts and I think I'm doing better with mine, but it's just that more time needs to pass.
What are the thoughts on getting him an anniversary gift? He bought me flowers (which I LOVED. I'm not even a big flower person but it was such an unexpected sweet gesture). Should I reciprocate with a gift of similar value? Should I think about his values (i.e. money) and pay off a debt of some sort rather than get him a tangible item? I don't think I need to play the hard to get card anymore... I feel like we're in pretty safe territory now.
That does bring me to another set of questions. Now that I think we're piecing, what's the protocol? Do I call more often? Do I initiate outings and loving gestures? Do I communicate more often about things or continue to indivudally GAL with little regard to his world? I think I know the answers, I just appreciate the input from you guys.
I don't know how I would have gotten through this without all of you, by the way. I cannot thank you enough for all the support this past year. You have truly changed my life and my family's lives. Thank you.
So H wasn't out of town. His trip was cancelled this past Thursday. So yesterday, I walk into the apt, set down D (who was completley passed out in her car carrier) and went to organize my bathroom a little bit. When I walk out, I hear a knock at the door and go to answer it. H is standing there grinning.
I give him a big hug. I was so surprised! He wished me a happy anniversary and told me to look in the kitchen where there was a large gift bag. He told me to look for the card. There was a short and sweet anniversary card and signed, "Love, H". And then he told me to open my present.
I was flabbergasted. It was wrapped in tissue paper with C's all over it.
"H. Where did you get this?" "Just open it" "H. Are you kidding??" "What?" "I know this paper..... you didn't get me this...."
Inside was a Coach diaper bag.
I was speechless.
I shop at second hand shops for both my clothing and my daughter's clothing. I only buy things on sale on the occasion that I'm in a full priced retail store. I even bought my wedding dress in a consignment shop. I've never spent more than 20 bucks on a handbag, and never bought shoes for more than 50 bucks. I've never owned a designer ANYTHING in my life.
Then he said, "well, 3rd year anniversary gift is leather, so I thought seeing as I wasn't very involved in picking out your original diaper bag, I'd get you this one. Is this alright?"
"Yes! I just... I can't believe.... :::continues to stumble over words:::" "You should go look in the bedroom... there might be another present in there..." ".... no...."
In my bedroom, there's another large gift bag. With ANOTHER Coach purse inside it.
"I figured you might want your own handbag too, for when you go out without D. Now, fill it up and let's go out to dinner."
I was floored. Astonished. Shocked. All in a good way.
And then he took me out to a nice steakhouse where he had made reservations. The waitstaff even wrote us a nice "Happy 3rd Anniversary!" card. H said he had thought about getting a sub for me for today, but realized due to the nature of my classroom I probably would have needed more notice to prepare and wanted more to surprise me. My sister was in on it, and took care of D while we were out for the next few hours.
I cannot think of another time where I was THIS surprised. Even when he proposed to me.
I feel justified in getting him what I wanted to get him for our anniverary now. He easily spent that much on me, and I've never had the funds to spoil him.
AND I'm going to pay off 2 major debts that we've been talking about eliminating.
If this isn't piecing, I don't know what is. I am forever grateful for picking up the DR book.
If that doesn't say LOVE, I don't know what does:)
I think I got a little tear in my eye reading that one!
what she said...:)
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
