What was I an idiot? Of course there's an OM...

[luvhurts49]

Sandi, I too think that your description of how a normal man thinks is right on the money. I know that I often think is those same ways--I get what I want, then move on to the next objective without ever thinking about the previous one. I think it has to do with men being natural "fixers" and once we fix something, it's fixed until it someone tells us that it's broken again, but we rarely check on it ourselves, because someone will always tell us right? Of course not and that's how we get into these situations and that's how we end up with WAW's. It isn't always the W fault, it is just as much the H fault if not more.

[Ctflor]

Sandi's post got me to thinking about my own behavior! Good post there.

[workinghardguy]

Thanks for the reply Sandi... I read it last night and have had some time to mull it over. There's a lot of good stuff in there, though I think some of it oversimplifies what is a much more complex set of interlaced issues and conditions.

I think you're quite right about men and us wanting the sitch resolved so we can move on. I've been doing so much reading and learned so much. I can completely see where all the sources say men are bad at multi-tasking; we're just not biologically wired for it. So when there's something that threatens our survival it consumes us and our focus. It's why LBHs seem to obsess and be able to do nothing else but constantly look at their sitch.

And yes... I've even caught myself backsliding last week away from PMA, GAL, and so on. It's so easy to do and you have to be so vigilant, at least until the changes because habits and then the habits become second-nature.

I don't agree that I'm looking for her to "back to her old self". That's not what I'm looking for at all actually. What I'm looking for is just any type of ambivalence, uncertainty, confusion, willingness to consider an alternative. I don't expect her to say tomorrow that things are better. What I keep looking for is that maybe June doesn't have to be the point where we split up. Maybe we can try longer. Or, considering she has said repeatedly that we can't work on our R until she works on her personal mental health issues, that she's actually doing something to work on her issues. I don't think for a minute that if she starts going to IC that we're better or good, but it would be a statement that maybe we can work on this.

I also sort of get your "unavailable" concept, but I don't agree with it completely, particularly because there are small children involved. She's stopped being an effective mom. So someone has to be an effective parent. I hear what you're saying about not filling the "mothering" role because it supplants her and weakens me. But it's a much finer line than simply saying to stop doing it. Why? Because you can't leave a five year old alone and unattended just because it makes you "look like a man" and might help save your R.

Take the reminder I sent her. I had two options. To do it or not. If I don't, she doesn't follow through and I have a very hurt and sad little boy. If I do perhaps she sees me as her "secretary", but she shows up. So both sides have negatives, and it's a matter of choosing which. It's also tied up in my 180s as in the past I would never confront her on anything. Telling her what I think is wrong and out of bounds is part of this.

Or babysitting... my W works 12 hour shifts often on a weekend (like yesterday). I'm her husband and my S's father. Of course I'm going to spend the day with my S. No, I'm not going to pay for a babysitter nor do I have any desire to abdicate that role just so I don't look weak. In fact I think abdicating that role makes me look weak.

Or we can take last night... S and I had a day of GAL. We got back late, after his bed time. W and I put him to bed and we hung out together. S and I have church this morning so I went to bed, W went over to her friend's house afterwards. Am I babysitting? Maybe, but not like there's another option. I suppose I could not take S to church and leave him with W, BUT I WANT my S to go to church and he loves it. I'm deciding that he needs this in his life where it hasn't been before. Now, next weekend I'm going out of town to GAL for two days and I didn't make childcare arrangements... it's her problem. In a few weeks same thing.

I don't feel that simply turning the house and kids management over to her completely makes things better, and that's the sense I get from you post. That I need to go for "1950's dad". I think we end up back here but for the reasons other posters have, namely they didn't help, they don't participate, and dump it on their wives.

I do think that I am working towards a more 50/50 arrangement rather than the 85/15 we've had in the past. Where if she needs help she needs to ask me, don't take it for granted. Where I won't do everything and she can find time in her schedule just like I do.

Lastly is the unavailable part... I'm not sure how that works exactly, again when you have kids. Maybe if we were separated, sure, then it's different. But we're still attempting to give the kids some version of normalcy. So we have dinner together, do family stuff together, talk to each other, etc... That consumes quite a bit of time actually. I've definitely been less available, due to GAL, in the past month than I had been previously. But I think there is far more nuance and gray in here than is apparent.

Again, if it was just W and I then what the heck... I'll be out until I'm ready to be home, if nothing ever gets done around the house who cares, and I'm not going to share my plans with you. But to care and feed three kids and have them in an environment where their needs are met greatly complicates the equation.

[workinghardguy]

Journaling... wow, yesterday I didn't journal, too busy

Good day, as those go now I guess.

Woke up with a sense of peace and calm I hadn't felt before. I was in the kitchen getting breakfast ready and realized I don't care all that much if we stay together. That I'll be alright on my own, life will be fine, and things will turn out ok but different. It really felt great to be at peace like that. I was pretty proud of feeling that way.

Then my W woke up a while later, came downstairs... she is very beautiful... and all that sense of peace fell apart. The pain, worry, and anxiousness came back. BUT, I'm taking it as progress that I at least had that feeling for some period of time even though it wilted upon seeing her. Baby steps, baby steps.

Day started with kindergarten soccer for S. W came to the practice, and it was the last one. I was out coaching so we didn't spend the time together really, which was fine. At one point S fell and got a cleat to the head, so it was good mommy was there... there are just some things daddys don't do as well

Afterwards W went to work and S and I went off for our GAL day. Did my volunteer thing the rest of the morning, then got him some new shoes, played at the eco-park, then had to stop at Goodwill to get new clothes to replace the ones that got wet at the eco-park Ended the day with a trip to a haunted house where we went through the "not scary" for kids and since that was "boring" in the words of my five year old we went through the very scary version too

One things I've noticed is that a by-product of this whole sitch is my time with my kids is much better. We do more things and have more fun. I've stopped caring what my W will think and just do what I think is fun. For example, yesterday we went to my S's favorite park. The eco-park there had a new exhibit up and running with a stream the kids can play in, dam up, change the flowrate, etc... In the past I would have worried that my W would disapprove since it's fall, we didn't have other clothes, and it was a little chilly. But my S loves water and so wanted to play... so ahead and play. We had a blast and all it required was a quick side trip to Goodwill to replace the wet clothes with dry ones And it was a good feeling to not care one bit what my W might feel about it. If it makes her angry or concerned well... that's her issue. I think it was fine and acceptable.

A few interesting interactions with W yesterday...
She had posted to Facebook about being at soccer and her sister had made a comment. I posted about how cold it was. Around lunch my W texts me that she accidentally deleted my FB comment when she was trying to delete her sister's comment. She's deleted other comments in the past and she knows it makes me feel hurt, which is why I almost never post a comment on her page anymore. She said she wanted me to know and didn't do it to make me feel bad, just an accident. We share a few more texts but then I end it and stop sending them. That's a 180 for me. I always push the convo one text too many.

Our GAL day went longer than intended and we got home much later than planned. W got home before us to a dark house. As we were getting to town she sends me a text asking "Where are you boys at?" I ignore the text and we get home about five minutes later. First time she's checked up on my whereabouts since the bomb.

Put S to bed and she asks if I've eaten. Told her I hadn't (though I did feed S) and she suggests we get something. I go get some mexican take-out and we sat on the couch together, watched TV, and had fun talking. First time I've sat on the couch with her, where there wasn't a kid in between us, since the bomb. Also first time she didn't try and sit as far down the couch as humanly possible.

Last thing... a small bit of R talk, though sort of R talk by projection. She told me a story of being out with her girlfriends last night. Her friend's husband (friend and husband are having problems) is drunk and confronts her. Husband tells my W that since my W revealed to her friend what our sitch is, his W has been threatening to leave him. Husband is in essence blaming my W for his sitch.

We talk about that. I pretty much listen. At one point chime in that blaming my W really isn't helpful, since a) it's their problems and b) it really invalidates what his wife is telling him the problems are. She agrees with me and says "he's blaming me instead of just acknowledging the problems and working on himself to be different." My god if I didn't want to go down the road of "yes, and look at how I've acknowledged, and all the work I'm doing, and..." but I just shut up and listened.

Afterwards we both watched some of the Bridge School concert being streamed live. Then I turned in and she went over to a friend's house. Got home about 2am.

So a day of small positives. Still no signs of any cracks in the resolve, but whatever.

[2thepoint]

Nice update, WHG. It sounds to me like there is progress and that yor W is warming some. Keep it up, things will continue to improve. Positive attitudes are contagious!!

[workinghardguy]

Not my journal entry but something I found odd... thought I gauge reaction. I came upstairs to find my W reading the following on Facebook

Marriage posting from Facebook

she spent probably 10 minutes reading it, and she didn't know I saw her reading it. Again, trying to not go high or low on it. It's certainly and interesting read, but considering her clear, or seemingly clear, disdain for our M, I was surprised to see her take the time.

And if nothing else it is a good read.

[Telemark]

Didn't see that one coming...a touching and tragic story.

WHG, it appears there are some positives in your situation with your W; that's very good. You are showing the right amount of detachment, I think...just enough to keep a little bit of tension there.

Stay strong as a man, husband and father/stepfather. your every move, word and action is being weighed and measured. Your W wants to see a strong, confident and kind WHG who can be his own man yet still be the rock for the family.

[2thepoint]

Hmmm... Is all I can say!

[workinghardguy]

Journaling... not too much to say today. Not sure what the end of today was about, but I'm realizing I don't think I care all that much.

Went to church this morning with my S. Good service and he had a good time, he really does love church. W texted me during service about wanting to change plans so she could go Halloween shopping. Whatever, I didn't realize there were plans so it was fine. She was very apologetic and didn't want me to feel she was "bailing" on me. Weird. Then while she was out she kept sending me text messages about halloween costumes for the kids. ok.

S and I got home and chilled after yesterday's marathon. Watched the Packer game and did some volunteer work. Took S to the park and we played some cards. Midway through the Packer game my W gets home. She didn't seem like she was in a very good mood, but I chalked that up to getting home. Whatever, her problem not mine. She took a nap and then went and picked up SS and SD.

She got home and went to the back room to watch a movie and fold clothes (Packer game was still on). I checked over SS and SD homework. Asked W what she wanted to do for supper and showed her what I had picked up during the grocery trip. She said she wasn't that hungry, but then was sure to add in that what I had picked up looked pretty good... almost like she didn't want me to feel insulted. Again, weird.

I grilled up supper and her and S watched a movie while eating supper. I watched the rest of the game. SS and SD ended up watching movie too while I cleaned up supper and watched the game. Had a few interactions with W and she was ok with me, but just owly and grumpy overall. But not grumpy and owly with me... again, weird.

At one point, when we were alone, I asked her if everything was ok. She said she was fine. I told her she seemed upset, she said she was ok. So I dropped it. C said give her two chances to talk about what's bothering her and then back off (due to the depression and death statements I do check in when she's acting very sad). And then just now she went to bed without saying good night or telling me she was heading to bed. First time she's done that in about a week.

But... I find myself sitting here not really caring all that much. In the past I would be crawling the walls wondering what spun her up. Was it something I did? something I didn't do? Something she thinks I did?

Now... whatever, her issue. I offered her a chance to talk and she said no. I offered her a second chance and she said no again. Ok, I get it, have fun with whatever crawled up your backside and made a home there.

The funny part is I really can't think of a single thing today that I did that would have tripped her trigger. C'est la vie.

Ah yes, one other oddity from last night. While we sat together on the couch she suddenly mentions my birthday next month. How it's the 11-11-11 birthday (she's big into numbers, her birthday is 6-6, we were married 9-9, our kids' birthdays are 13, 14, and 15 days of the month). Guess I hadn't realized that. Then she goes on to say that, by scheduling happenstance, she has the entire weekend off. But that's all she says. So I'm trying to figure out what the he!! that means.

At first I thought maybe she was hinting we should do something together... but I can't imagine that. Then today I thought perhaps she's trying to say that I should feel free to go out or go do something because she's going to be around. Not sure if I should just outright ask what she meant or just plan a birthday without her. This is the part that makes my head hurt.

[workinghardguy]

Unfun day... S ended up staying home from school with stomach flu, so a day of puking and crying. Of course the puking started after w left for work. Texted her and she offered to come home, but since was already at work 30 miles away and I hadn't left yet I told her I'd stay.

What I hate is the analyzing of everything I do. After I told her I'd stay I started worrying if it was the right move. Does it fill in the "unmanly" narrative already in her head? Does she resent not being able to come home. Then I decided it didn't matter as the decision was already made.

Midday the stomach virus decided to come visit me too. So most of the day has been s and I lying together on the couch, decided not to tell w that I was sick too. I'll just suck it up and make do.

SS and SD got home and made sure homework got done. Sure glad it was a crockpot supper day. SD helped me get supper on, not that s and I were eating anyway. Now helping SS and SD carve their pumpkins. Not really up for it, but a promise is a promise and the days are running out

Did figure out why w was so down last night and this morning. Has to do with female issues and I'll save folks from the details