Time For Change

[25yearsmlc]

I saw this "old" post of yours and feel like it's a good example of what you might want to work on changing, so your life changes. It may seem like a 2 x 4 but it's not meant to be.

And the madness continues!!

My wife called yesterday during the day, I ignored the first call, then she rang back,I answered.
She told me that our daughter had been poorly at school and she was going to get her, she said that she was very busy at work, and if needed could I take the next day off to look after our daughter, I told her I was really busy also and couldn't.

Straight away the bomb went off!!!
Telling me how I had not changed, I was not there to help her, she was left alone again, etc, etc.
She even threw in that her parents can't help as she is not talking to them, and that was my fault also!
I just told her that her parents were not happy with her because of her attitude to our daughter when she was stuck at school while she was away with OM!!!!

did telling her that^^, help the situation or the talk? Did you think she had forgotten the trip w/OM and leaving her d at school?

The conversation basically went down hill, phone slamming, etc.

What did You learn anything from this exchange?

Eventually she called me, she had out daughter at home, she was fine, and just had a slight tummy bug, and looked ok for the next day.

She then asked me to get a coffee, while we spoke calmly.

Again!!!!, we spoke about us, the kids, the past, etc!!!

I told her that I was tired of having the past thrown in my face, she told me that she was still hurt and angry about it.

Maybe it would help you to create a SHORT mantra or response to these, of <2-3 sentences. You can admit your regrets AND Lessons from the past, and one of them is to now focus on the future ONLY...for everyone's sake.

But just so I know, you talk a lot about what SHE did to you w/OM.

How do you believe You hurt HER, specifically? IOW when you were drinking, how did that effect HER?

Ever think that she was probably often very hurt or angered by how You treated her then? Are you able to recall any of these experiences? My father had a lot of black outs

but now & then I wonder if that might have also been self serving...better not to remember...


So I asked her, why was she still angry with me, she had OM, she had the house, she had the kids, she had her job, her friends, everything she wanted, so why still be angry with me??

She couldn't answer?

I just said that it's because she still had feelings for me, and thats why she is hurting.

Wait...I'm confused....You told her what she felt AND why? Why engage in this R talk, AND then mind read, out loud?

Seems clear she's reeling from your marital issues/demise and her decision to act. Your comments are all just more pure pursuit and arguments. Certainly not detachment.

But maybe I'm misreading all this.

Did YOU tell her how SHE feels (=angry) and then also tell her why she is angry at you?

I advise against that, big time. Hope you can see why.

She told me she did miss me at times, thinks about me, even said that she thinks she still loves me, but was still hurting.

I again apologised and asked why were we getting divorced?

Did you read what she just told you here? She just said she's "still hurting"....and that sounds like a reason for her feelings and divorce.

ANY woman who has been married to someone as long as she has w/you, will retain some good loving feelings.

Don't read into it (at least to her) or she'll deny having them...

sure She loves you but she knows it takes more than love...after all, you just stopped drinking 10 weeks ago. Why?

In her mind, it probably looks like the only reason you stopped is b/c of the divorce so in her mind, you forced her hand.

And she did you and the kids a favor by doing whatever it took to get your attention, improve her life and your health.

In her mind, perhaps she felt You pushed her into the arms of OM, and only b/c of her drastic actions did you begin to solve your underlying problem....

Don't you think there's at least some validity to this?

I mean she divorced you, and only NOW you stopped drinking.

This is all new to her.

So she hasn't had a chance to 1) believe you CAN stop drinking' or that 2) you WILL stop drinking for good, or

3) that it will really last, even when no one else is around and

4) she does not know who you'll become after sobriety is part of your everyday life.

You will undoubtedly change. Your manner of interacting will change.

It's a lot to take in and process, for all.


Again, it was because you are an alcoholic!!Ouch!!

we saw that coming...right? I mean you do get it, right? THAT's her reason. True or not, she believes it AND you did need to quit.

So, how is this part so confusing to you? I'm sincere. I don't understand what upsets you about this specific issue b/c It's a true statement you are owning...right?

She still has feelings for you (you're the father of her children) and all woman are moved when they see their children lovingly interacting with their dads...it's a turn on.

Be the best dad you can be, now more than ever.


I said I was 10 weeks sober, I know its not long, but its where I am, she said that she knew that, but if she hadn't left I would not have changed, I agreed and thanked her.


BINGO! There's your answer^^^mystery solved. You agree with her.

She will have to have a lot more time seeing the new "evolving" sober you, before she really thinks you can make a go of it.

That makes sense to me. (My dad was an alcoholic for a big chunk of my life. God how I wish he had quit drinking earlier...)

I said this "new life" she wanted and had didn't seem to make her that happy, again she sort of agreed.

She "Sort of agreed"? OR she saw no point in fruitless discussion...??

Her "new life" for a long time was probably having a sober h. Be careful here...
I would not push her so hard on this "aren't you happy NOW?" approach.
it's your pride talking and that's not helping you with your m or your sobriety, imo.

It's like you want her to admit being wrong and you want to corner her into it...as if you want to "win" some battle here. But that's not helpful to your cause, imo. And my friend, the battle is not with her. It's in you.


I explained that the pressure we were both under with work, life, kids, etc, was exactly the same, I said we speak more now than we did when we were together, she agreed, and I said we still argue about the same things, and I also said that I bet that in a years time we are still having the same arguments, she said probably and laughed!!


I would Never say this^^. PLEASE UNDERSTAND WHY...

I want her to believe that YOU have changed. (And that it's true that you have changed...

Most importantly, SHE MUST come to believe

that marriage to you, from this day forward, can and would be different AND better than before...

or why would she want you to come home?

So stress the changes in you and the way you two interact, NOT the same old stuff that "will never change"...

(good grief, I fear you are not getting this!!)

Your present purpose in your interactions with her (the ones you must have) must include demonstrating how changed your R can be....not repeating the insanity of the same old behaviors from before...



I said that didn't that tell her something, spliting up will not make you happier, I said that I think we should try councelling together, I said I didn't want a chance, I didn't want to move back in or get back together, I justthink we should try councelling together?

She didn't give any answers, but she was very quiet and I know she was thinking about it.

Other than saying "wow that's a lot More pursuit" I have 2 questions for you and I'm being sincere.

1) Did you read the DB books?

2) Have you read and understood the "37 Rules" posted around here?

B/c my friend,THIS ^^^ Is NOT DBing...


We ended the call when our daughter was calling her.

I really want to get off this ride!!!
But I can't!!!!!

I feel as the end/divorce is coming, we are starting to talk??

Maybe...OR It's a rehashing...and mindreading...


Will it stop the divorce?, probably not?

But I just don't know where it will end at the moment, it is changing daily!!!

Is she having any doubts?, I honestly don't know
And I think her pride will carry it through to divorce, etc.

All I know is the communication is still there, the hurt is still there, but she is telling why we got here a lot more now?

THe only words I am sure came from her are about your drinking. You said she was angry and then you said why she felt that way. OR so it read.


She acknowledges my changes, she comments on it, she even applauds me for not drinking, AA, etc.

Of course she does. We all do.

She knows I've seen the light and changed,

How have you changed? Other than not drinking, what work are you doing on the traits you wanted to change?

How are you becoming the authentic new you?

What changes has she seen or have you made?

I hear nothing of them, other than your drinking has recently stopped. I don't hear what you are learning at the meetings or the 12 steps, and I have been in that program, and the fact that I'm not hearing anything about changes or growth or awareness of the harms YOU have done, or the amends...is worrying me.

Instead I hear you talk about HER wrongs to you. Ironically- you dont' want to discuss your wrongs or her pain, b/c that's "throwing the past into your face" but you did that to her in the phone conversation with reference to OM and your d....the exact thing you don't want her to do to you...)

I'm concerned you are not getting a lot out of your 12 step program and therefore you wont' stay in it. Just a nagging concern...

but with the hurt, OM, friends, etc, she is very reluctant to stop the bus!!!

To me, that's completely understandable, given the givens.
Even if she were ready to reconcile she'd be nuts to rush it. It's the most dangerous thing she could do. (Rushing into a recon b/c if you two blow it then you probably won't recon again...remember that). Relapses happen an average of 1-2 times but reconciliations are not the same. You dont' always get another chance to start over. And you will be lucky to get one so don't rush things.

If you talk to your sponsor see what they say about R's now. I mean usually they want 1-2 YEARS of sobriety before a relationship happens, including a reconciliation, and you've been at it for weeks.

Are you going to meetings and do you like your sponsor?

Anyhow, I think she'd need to begin piecing, and getting c with and without you. She has issues including her enabling and co dependency issues, among others.

And if you are an alcoholic, and I trust you on that, then you have issues that need big time work.

I have not heard a thing here about that. How is YOUR work on YOU going? How's the program going?

Staying sober is #1, I know. But what about #2 and 3? What are your GAL activities and 180s, other than not drinking? The more you have of those, the more likely you are to stay sober, fyi.


I undersatnd that, I cannot make her change her mind, it will take time to heal, a lot of time.
Time even for her to look at herself and know that she did wrong with OM so quickly

wow, back to HER FLAWS so fast??? Hey, you are doing the 12 steps right? So how is your personal moral inventory going?

There's NO place in a 12 step program for you to focus on her "wrong"...you have enough to work to do on you. Talk to your sponsor about that comment right after talking about her healing...you are talking about HER healing right? Or yours? OR what?

The longer you focus on you being right and her being wrong, the longer you'll be apart.

Don't miss this chance at real growth for yourself. This isn't about her now. It's all you now. YOUR LIFE AND YOUR WORK...

But my ride just continues!!!!

good luck