I really am asking for some cold hard input from all of you great, caring people. My WAW (since March 2011, lives in same house, three sons) has what she calls a "friend" who just happens to be another guy and is my cousin (no we're not rednecks).
So far:
- she has lied about a weekend in NY (we live in MA) with her girlfriends and actually met my cousin instead
- made weekend trips to his house in PA which she claims are "friends only" trips where she goes to clear her mind
- had an unexplained birth control product found by our 13 yr old son and it just happened to be missing on a weekend she snuck off to my cousin's house. She claims she bought it as a crazy reaction to the pressure she's under.
- a handful of emails was forwarded to me and my oldest son by some unknown person who hacked her email acct. The emails were from my cousin to her and were the kind of mushy loving type emails you don't send to another guys wife unless you're interested.
- in one 90-day period 361 secret phonecalls were made between the two of them averaging 2 hrs per day, and this is still going on.
She claims that in her current emotional upheaval (think a major MLC), he is someone she comfortable talking too and needs the companionship.
I have been very good about doing all of the DB techniques once I figured out what they were and how they applied, but this seems to be too much of a stretch to accept her explanation. I feel like such a chump living in the same house as her while this goes on. My sons are disgusted by her actions as well, esp. with her spending all her time with my cousin and all family life all but abandoned by her.
At times I am attempted to belive her explanation about my cousin but my gut tells me I'm so in love and want our M that I am blind and stupid.
Well judging from the evidence, your W is having an A, at the very least an EA, in my opinion.
Have you confronted your cousin? What I would do, is present the evidence to your W in a clear, calm manner and ask her for the truth. She'll probably deny it, but you gave her a chance.
Tell her afterwards that you now know what you need to do and leave her hanging. Let her figure out what you mean. Meanwhile, you gather your information from a L concerning your rights. Not saying you need to file, but it's always good to go in prepared because you don't know what kind of reaction she'll give. She'll either immediately apologize or she'll deny anything's going on and try to flip the situation around on you.
What are some issues that she feels she needs to get away from?
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
Have you spoken to your cousin about this? What's your relationship with your cousin like? Can you have a "man to man" discussion? I would probably be tempted to tell your W that you're not comfortable with her friendship with your cousin, and that you plan to talk to him about it. If nothing is going on, she shouldn't mind that at all. If something *is* going on, she can't stop you from talking to him, he is your relative after all, so you should feel free to have a heart-to-heart discussion.
Your W is *definitely* having an A or an EA. The pattern repeats itself over and over again. Go to Pat Love's website, go to the downloads section and review the document about an "office spouse", you should review it with your W as it makes it very clear about where the cheating line is drawn. In any case, most A's start with your W involved in a friendly relationship with OM. As time goes by, the friendship gets more intimate. It's a slippery slope. They don't start out intending for it to go there, but they're open to it. As it gets rolling, they feel connected, the secrecy is exciting, and before too long they feel "in love", which is a chemical thing that alters their brain chemistry and gives them a high.
Once they're there, they will actively try to keep it going, and that means that they will both lie to you. They will deny, deny, deny, and will promise you it's over again and again when it is not.
A few things:
1) Be careful what you ask, be sure you really want the answer. Some people don't. At the end of the day, it usually doesn't really have anything to do with you, you could be the best H in the world.
2) The best way to get the truth is to normalize the situation. "I understand how you're feeling -- everyone likes attention from the opposite sex, it makes us feel special. Humans are not monogamous by nature, it's natural for us to be interested in other people sometimes, that's normal." etc. etc. If they think that you get it, and can empathize, they are more likely to let their guard down, because you are not being threatening.
3) If she's having an A or an EA, she is likely on her way out the door. She may not be acting that way now, you might think you can get her to stop this if you threaten to leave, etc. etc. Before you do ANYTHING, gut check what you want the long term outcome to be. If she cheated on you, do you want her back, or do you want her gone? Many marriages come away from an affair stronger than before, it doesn't need to be the end. If you want her back over the long haul, then tread very carefully now. She has moved away from you emotionally. If you push her farther away now, you're going to have to recover every inch you lose in a slow painful process.
Your best bet if you want her back is to stabilize the situation, you withdraw too. If you back away versus pursue, she won't move away any farther than she is now assuming you are civil.
Remember, she's going to resent you right now. She will resent you for spying on her, she will resent you for threatening this great relationship she's enjoying. She will resent you for things she makes up, because it helps to justify what she's doing if you're the bad guy. Don't play into that.
Don't blame, don't accuse, don't scold, and don't make her responsible for your sadness or happiness, she will resent you for giving her that power over you. If you want her back, your #1 goal right now is not to create additional resentment or push her farther away. Your #2 goal is to have the affair ended.
If you flip the priority on that, you will run a much higher risk of losing her and having a much harder road back to happy.
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
I DID confront... a number of times... I actually know very few who actually haven't and I have no idea the ratio of those who have and have not confronted, who have reconciled or not...
What I DO know is I confronted... and it didn't work well, for me... it hurt... and it hurt a lot... and the lies hurt, even more... so the A was going to happen anyhow... had I not asked... I would have had fewer lies that hurt...
Yep, I confronted too. The EA was over on it's own a couple days before I did, but W's immediate response was to request "D" with no chance for reconciliation. Fortunately I have been able to DB and reconcile, and to gabbysmom's point, we had to work through it all, and I keep hurting from it -- every day.
To be fair, I think I'm so in favor of confrontation because while the EA was going on without my knowledge, my DB efforts did absolutely nothing, and that was extremely frustrating. Also, I don't know if I could deal with not confronting and knowing that was going on -- right or wrong, I don't think I could deal with it.
Kaffe Diem may well be right that leaving it alone and saying nothing is best, my opinion is tainted by my own needs and insecurities, and the experience I had which is fortunately limited to a single incident where I had knowledge to confront (there were others I never had knowledge of)
--Accuray
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
Okay. I am responding to all of you wonderful, caring people who took the time to help me out - Mr Bond (James Bond); Accuray, KD, DG, gabbysmom23 and Ken F.
I did confront my W early on and a few times later when I found out different aspects of the sitch. She tripped herself up a few times that made feel as if she was plainly bagged and didn't have her cover story ready, but in other conversations she tells a story of it being only a close friendship that satisfies her needs while she works thru what might be best described as a major life/psychological upheaval. There is a very strong history of PTSD from her childhood. She is seeing a psychiatrist and on anti-anxiety med. In the end I see a woman who is very troubled and in crisis, but is handling it all in the most selfish way possible, alienating her H and sons possibly forever.
I did confront my cousin once and in a totally nuetral manner. It was very early on when my W had lied about a trip to NY in which he met her there, instead of the girlfriends she told me about. My cousin insisted he did not know my W had lied to my family about her trip. I actually believe that to be true. We have been close our entire lives. I fully expected him to stop continuing his involvement in this given that he was lied to as well. Subsequently, they carried on together - the trips, lovingly worded emails, hundreds of secret phonecalls, etc. Not once did my cousin ask me how I was doing, nor call or offer to step away from a family in crisis. With that, I have no respect for him as a human being. The fact that he lives hundreds of miles away has saved him from the retribution he deserves, and the fact that I have been a single Dad since this began and I want to be there for my sons through this.
One of you mentioned that my W would flip this against me if I confronted her, and yes that is exactly what has happened in every case, although in reality I have been a great husband and never have or would give her any justification to carry on like this. My W is brutally uncaring about this. Her sons all know what's going on and she doesn't care one bit, at least on the surface. BTW, my W's childhood trauma was such that she was never able to trust me throughout our 24 yr M although I never strayed no matter how tough things got. I fully trusted her and respected her; and she never was able to give me the same. The sad irony is that she can't trust yet is in at the very least an emotional affair.
I actually would feel better if I knew for sure if there was an affair. I would welcome the truth. I feel like I have a lot of evidence but no real smoking gun. That's why I question my senses in this. I can handle the truth.
Since I have learned the DB'ing techniques and put them into practice I feel much better than the complete and total wreck I was initially. I'm not sure if my efforts at BD'ing have had any effect. Maybe she would have been long gone if I hadn't been doing the DB'ing?
I have totally backed off from all pursuing, questioning, etc. I am continuing the DB'ing but I am not really sure if it only gives her the chance to play around while I attemp to solely provide an atmosphere for reconciliation. Tha's why I feel so embarissingly chumplike.
BTW, if there has been a PA, I do not want to reconcile. If only an EA I could attempt to reconcile. That's where I draw the line and I'm not sure if that's the wrong place to draw it, but it feels right for me. I given her every chance to tell me the truth and have told her if she wants out, or if there has been a PA, then tell me and we will split up and split everything 50/50, no lawyers, just mediate. She sticks to her story nonetheless and maybe she has ulterior motives, I don't know.
Accuray - it seems like you are reconciling from some sort of affair. How the hell did you do it, survive it? You must be one strong person. Has anyone personnally seen the BD'ing techniques work? Seen a couple come back from separation and/or affairs to a stronger marriage? Can this set of Jedi mind tricks really work? And, I do know that techniques are to make me stronger too so I don't discount them despite the Star Wars reference.
I find myself getting less desperate every day, less needy, but the horror of this sitch is constant background noise and mostly foreground too.
